But didn't Dr. Harley say the exact opposite to him?

Is he ignoring Dr Harley's advice? Dr Harley would tell him to find another job where he doesn't travel if he can't make this work.

LongWay:

The trip to Reno, I have a board meeting and annual board retreat scheduled for one of the days of the trip. In order to attend, I would have to return home two nights before Taffy. This board meeting has been scheduled for 6 months. It is in a remote location without reliable internet, so I can't attend virtually. I am a relatively new trustee on this board, and it is my responsibility to attend.

Taffy originally was scheduled to go to the training the week before, and I was scheduled to accompany him. But when that was postponed, he enrolled in the training the following week without checking with me that I was available, even though I had discussed my schedule with him.

For the trip to Chile, it is a 10-day trip. I can go (at our considerable expense), but for part of the time, Taffy will be at the mine in Chile where no visitors are allowed. So I would be alone there for at least 4 of the 10 nights.

While the company is sympathetic and encourages spouses to travel, they do not allow us to visit the mine sites. There are safety issues, plus altitude medical certification is required. Taffy would be at the mine camp overnight. It is a 6-hour drive from the nearest town, so he cannot come "out" each night. There isn't anyone who can do the inspections/recommendations on the site that Taffy can do, as he managed the construction.

I am trying to brainstorm ideas for how he can attend without being separated overnight.

Taffy has said, "well I will tell them I can't go then." However, it sounds to me like he thinks this is a ridiculous idea, and he is only saying it in sarcasm. I guess I will have to ask him how he would feel about doing that.

Markos;

Yes it feels like a DJ. But we aren't at that assignment yet (weekly worksheets)!!

Markos;

Thanks for that quote... And you are right. Our most successful POJA 's are when we already have some basis for agreement. I don't think Taffy believes being separated overnight is as dangerous as it is. (But I will ask him. Otherwise my supposition is a DJ.)

Well then you definitely can't negotiate!

SusieQ;

This is where I have trouble. To my mind, there were no EP's. we were working with Steve Harley. I prepared a list of EP's and asked SH in several different sessions when I could present it to Taffy. He said it would be better if they came from Taffy himself. So the two of them worked on what they called a "Vulnerability Protection Plan." Which Taffy presented to me. But it was more about how Taffy was going to keep himself from getting his EN's met outside of marriage (no gawking, no accepting admiration from attractive females.) And included nothing about overnight separation (interestingly.) And Taffy never asked me what else I thought should be included.

Steve's instruction to Taffy was that he should review the VPP with me several times a week (along with the NC plan, to prevent contact with the Dolly) to remind himself and me what he needed to do to keep the marriage safe. However, he rarely does this anymore, once I stopped reminding him. The last time was over a month ago. He has said in the past that he doesn't feel the need to remind himself, and also that reviewing these things triggers thoughts of the A for him, which he just wants to forget. Helping me to feel safe is just not something he seems to think about.

When Taffy was posting, someone asked him about EP's. So I gave him a copy of HerPapaBear's, and Taffy read them, and said he was already doing those things. But we never have had a formalized list for ourselves.

So, I think this might be crucial for us.

If this is true, this is a major issue.

Because it means:
(a) he doesn't understand or care to understand the point of EPs
(b) he doesn't care or doesn't care to understand the point of POJA (never do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of your spouse) and
(c) he is ignoring Dr Harley's general and specific advice he has given to you two.

This all means he is at very high risk for another affair, catwhit.

This wasn't a rhetorical question.

It doesn't matter if he feels this case is different because it's work and not recreation.
Dr. HARLEY TOLD YOU NEVER.

He needs to get a new job if this is something that is going to be expected of him.

Prisca:

Well, he said it to ME.... On my thread on the private forum, and then reiterated it the next day on the radio programme.

However, when we were counseling with Steve Harley, we discussed what to do about overnight separations. sH said people had found ways to get in UA time when they were apart, by VOiP like SKYPE or FaceTime. Taffy has taken THIS advice to heart.

This was advice Dr Harley wrote to a person who asked him about what to do about her spouse who was ignoring her concerns about an EP (going to co-ed AA meetings).



http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2418611

Markos:

To me, yes. To Taffy, no...

He was talking to both of you, catwhit.
It is impossible for you to live under the policy of "no nights apart," and your husband to live under the policy of "it's okay under certain conditions."

Dr. Harley's word is final on this. It's HIS program.

Melody;
Just got off the phone with Taffy. He said he was going to book the trips. I asked if he thought Dr. Harley's rule of never being separated overnight was over-the-top? He said he thought it was a good idea, but sometimes circumstances make being together impossible. That because we do spend a lot of time together, way more than most couples, then if we are occasionally apart out of "necessity" it shouldn't be a big deal.

He said he thought the MB program is good, but that there are some things that are too rigorous, and either don't apply to us, or we can elect to not do them. I didn't pursue the topic because he is at work, but will when he gets here, in a few hours.

At this point, I don't think he realizes how precarious our marriage is. He is feeling better about us, and happy, says he is in love, etc. but I am not, and I am not seeing the actions from him.

If he goes, change the locks. He is not safe for you.

catwhit, you can post about this to Dr Harley, but I have heard him recommend separation when a wayward spouse refuses to follow extraordinary precautions. This is a very basic rule and should not be ignored.

I agree, Prisca.

I am thinking that we need an overhaul... Going back to EP's, which, to my mind, were never properly in place. One that WILL be on the list (in addition to no nights apart) is agreeing to follow the MB program. To the letter. Not the Taffy cafeteria plan...

I have also heard that, Melody.

I think I need to go back and write the EP's, because I don't believe that step was completed properly... Then if Taffy won't agree, or agrees but then won't follow them, I have to separate.

Thanks, Susie.

Definitely don't need THAT happening...

I don't understand the situation with SH. When xWH and I coached with him, he had me tell xWH what I wanted in addition to him coming up with his own EPs. One of the EPs was no overnights apart.

Just follow what Dr Harley says -- like Prisca said, this is his program.

It doesn't matter what Taffy thinks or wants regarding EPs. They are not negotiable and he has been given the wrong idea about this so it's time to set him straight.