I really need some advice badly.

My husband and I posted a long time ago about things that had happened in our marriage. Well, a lot has changed since then for the good and I can honestly say that our relationship is far better than it was, but no, it's not perfect - and I don't seek perfection.

I have a problem that could well be something I need to deal with myself rather than my husband, but thats not what I am feeling.

My husband is a physically kind, thoughtful and loving person a great deal of the time and I tell him that, but if I rationally lay a complaint about something then it feels as if I become the worst wife there could ever be. He grows cold as ice towards me, shouts at me, says the most horrific things imaginable, and yet I always forgive, speaks of getting a divorce, he needs normal, he needs peace, he needs, he needs - and I'm lost.

I chat away with him warmly and suddenly he breaks off from me and is interested in something else. It is as if I don't exist. I feel invisible to him. How can a wife be visible if she is never acknowledged? There is constant butting in when I talk at other times - never am I permitted to conclude what I am trying to say - before that I am told to shut up, or asked "do you want to do this again", or "you're just looking for a fight", or literally told what I am about to say, and he's almost always wrong.

I love my husband dearly, but I feel he could care less about my emotional needs - most of all when I need his love.

My needs are far more on the emotional scale than on the physical, and inside I am running below empty. My husband's coldness is something I cannot relate to love in any way whatsoever. I try, but I cannot add it up and come up with him wanting both of us to be happy. I feel that if everything is alright for him, it is alright. Very much like he wants a wife who shuts up, accepts anything and doesn't disrupt his life. A virtual stepford wife.

An example is this weekend. Weeks back I made it clear that after the porn I had witnessed, I only wanted to see "family friendly" movies. No naked woman, men or violence. He accepted that well. But soon after he started putting anything on when last night there was a movie centered around this woman - before that was a movie with some type of prositute in her "lingerie" - after feeling like 10,000 women have been through our home during the porn incident, do I have a right to ask that I be allowed to have time to heal? I feel as if my santuary was invaded by these women.

My husband says "that's all past now and even a murderer doesn't have to pay forever". This is true, I grant him that - but he never checks in with me and asks me how I am getting along inside, and inside my self esteem and womanhood was as low as ever. I'm carrying too much hurt - moreseo because I cannot reconcile his coldness - and I mean verbal, body language, the way he looks as me so icily, with what he says is love.

It's as if I am out of my depth - like he only loves him, and that sounds terrible, but it is how it comes over and I can't shake the feeling I am out of my depth.

Sorry if this makes no sense. I'm quite distressed and just need to know what to do on my part - even if I am told I am the one to blame, I would rather know the truth.

Thanking anyone in advance,
Ana

Ana,

What MB things did you implement when you were here last fall? Did you read the material about Plan B then? What things have you actually done?

AM

AM,

We both studied all of Dr Harley's books together. We have adhered to almost all of it and it does work, but when it comes to something that now shames my husband he doesn't want to deal with my pain, or even understand I am not holding a grudge, I just want to feel like his woman again.

I sincerely feel that when I allude or mention something about the porn that he gets defensive and doesn't understand that it is not about what he did anymore, it's about what I feel.

I love my husband dearly and feel our marriage could be great if he stopped his self loving so much and thought about both of us, not just him. Plan B would be a last resort.

Ana

It sounds like you guys have left Dr. Harley's policy of joint agreement completely out. It's enough to say you don't want him to watch certain things, and he should agree to not watch them, because you are not enthusiastic. It has nothing to do with him being "a prisoner forever" or whatever. You will probably never be enthusiastic about such things, and neither would most women.

Ana from what you describe here it doesn't sound like you've implemented much of the MB program at all. You two aren't using POJA, except maybe when it is convenient for him. You aren't allowed to be radically honest (PORH). There appears to be no care or protection in this M for you. Your conversations are hostile at best if you're being told to shut up or are being controlled on what you can and cannot say regarding your unhappiness.

It sounds like a prison for you. I recommend you get a third party involved to referee your H's poor behaviors and help establish some some rules/guidelines so you can avoid this abuse.

Markos, I do agree with you here on this point. I think we thought we understood the POJA but after reading it through three more times, I think it isn't being implemented - or it is implemented but only for a limited time.

Before the porn happened none of the above bothered me at all. Did I like it? No, but only because I'm rather modest myself and always have been. Not prudish by any mean, but modest in what I show to others.

Mr Alias,
You are correct when you say I am not allowed to be radically honest. If I try to be, no matter how I try and put something, my husband feels as if I am attacking him, even when I certainly not doing anything of the sort. He will butt in on me talking and mock me by telling me he's heard this before and knows what I am going to say. 99% of the time he's wrong, but me trying to explain he's wrong in what he's thinking is simply met with a coldness that in all honesty scares me. Not physically, but psychologically. I feel frightened by my husbands sense of entitlement, and his clear belief that he is entitled to have everything his way.

Having said that, there are other times when he can be totally kind, caring and good at listening - I don't understand what causes the difference. Sometimes I feel I am losing my mind trying to make sense out of the man who claims to love me so deeply, and the man I have to accept when in this changed mode of complete callousness.

To involve a third party may well make him so angry at me that he would make things even worse for the both of us.
There have been times when something has come up that we cannot agree on and I have made the suggestion that we both come here and get advice. My husband said in the first instance that he didn't like us airing our dirty laundry publicly, even when I said it is anonymous. The other time I was referred to by him as like a little girl needing help from marriage builders. In honesty, I no longer know what to do.

I think he would be angry at me even posting here now. I hadn't before now because of the fear of that, but now I don't care what he judges me as. To ask for help isn't weakness IMO.

I love him very much.

So you�re saying your H has anger issues? You are saying if you explain to him you are unhappy , you know that the two of you are incapable of making your M a safe and happy M and that you want to get help to fix it that he�ll throw a hissy fit and make matters worse? Are you insinuating you're going to stay under this control/manipulation?

This is your life. What you describe here is abuse. Dr. Harley recommends separation in cases of abuse.

I recommend you get help if not together then, at a minimum, by yourself. You are on a dangerous path. You are headed straight towards destruction. If your M is going to have any chance of recoverying you have to change the dynamic. I recommend you call Steve Harley and set up an appt today. He will help guide you through this horrible ordeal.

Ana, you are describing a very controlling man who has a serious problem with demands, disrespect, and anger. Your situation is very dangerous.

Dr. Harley's position is that demands, disrespect, and anger all represent types of abuse and control and should not be tolerated in marriage. If your husband continues to be abusive, you should prepare for a situation, because his demands, disrespect, and anger will eventually end your marriage.

I can't really see that any of Dr. Harley's policies are being implemented in your marriage, Ana. No wonder you are miserable. Your husband has not eliminated the love busters of demands, disrespect, and anger, and Dr. Harley's position is that these should never be tolerated.

I'm not sure why you'd say you guys have "adhered to almost all" of Marriage Builders; it doesn't look like your husband has adhered to any of it, and he makes fun of you for wanting him to do so. (Even though Marriage Builders policies are nothing special or extraordinary; they are simply the ordinary things that thoughtful people of common decency would do to have a good marriage.) A wife can't make a good marriage by adhering to Marriage Builders principles on her own, and she certainly shouldn't try to do so in the face of abuse.

Here is some reading material that may help you, Ana:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5505_qa.html

These are Q&A columns by Dr. Harley. Look down the left hand side, and you will see the ones you need to click and read:
Controlling Husband #1 & #2
Control, Dependency, and Identity
Angry Outbursts #1 & #2
Domestic Violence #1, #2, and #3
Abusive Marriage #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, and #6

Markos, you are right in all you said and the links you posted are my marriage all over. Not every scenario, but the components.

I did end up telling my husband I had posted here and he didn't get angry, mind you that was post one of his angry outbursts and after he's had a major outburst it's as if he feels all set to accept anything. His personality changes and he becomes someone I can talk with, and vice versa, but it's all minus his anger.

He then went on to read LB again and said that this time he really had got it. Not so. I'm still not a recognised person with a point of view in his eyes. If he approaches me with something he doesn't like and I say "I see where you are coming from but I didn't mean anything like that" it is as if I said nothing. Like I don't even exist. If I push the point (and I did). Then I am in for it. He speaks to me as if I am a guy in a bar and not a woman.

BUT, I am the problem. I'm so ashamed to say I can't come through on the SF at the moment. My body has shut down against my will. It's as if I cannot make love with such an angry person. My body just doesn't respond. I live in fear and have not had time to heal from his disapproval when just as I even begin to start to feel comfortable he's into a new outburst over something that is always my fault. Everything is my fault.

He keeps me living on threats of him leaving. Threats of divorcing me. It's not an environment that can leave me feeling sexual, and yet I am supposed to. I know this isn't a pleasant way for him to live; it isn't for me, either, but how do I get past what my body won't do? I did ask him for time to heal after he had read the book again, and he agreed, but he broke the agreement.

There is something deep within me that is scared I'm living with a man that has more than anger. He feels no empathy - he cares less for anything other than himself, and I just feel like a useless piece of garbage he keeps hanging around. I'm dirt beneath his feet.

I no longer know how to deal with this. Yes, I could fake the SF, but where is the honesty in that?

I'm just an idiot going round in circles.

Could you really fake the SF? You said that your body has shut down so I'm not sure you could. I was thinking about this issue recently and realized that sex, at least for me, is an act of consummation. And who wants to consummate contempt, disrespect, demands, and anger? Why have sex with someone who has no restraint in how they treat you? The back and forth of kind treatment and unkind treatment, I think, comes from a sort of free loader philosophy of treatment of another depends on how they feel today.

Because the information has been there for your husband to understand and decide and he has spent all this time rejecting it, Plan B is in order. You don't know how to deal with life the way it is because there isn't a way to deal with disrespect except to get as far away from it as possible. If he won't protect you from his disrespect, then get yourself where you don't have to be the one to protect yourself from it: simply remove it from your life with a no contact plan.

LifetimeLearner, I probably could fake the SF to an extent. Not bodily - but that can be covered by other means - but I was an opera singer and gave up that career happily for my marriage as so many marriages fail under that career.

However, I would fear a panic attack part way through, and if he had an AO over anything after, I would feel violated and raped [ and I know what rape feels like - it's anger, too ].

I am like you and feel that SF is a very emotional, sacred and also a physical thing - a special consummation of love, and under normal circumstances my drive is higher than his. I feel sad that it is as it is, but he doesn't care about that and I'm a decade younger than he is. He didn't care about my sexual needs when he had porn on the go, in fact he never even approached me and on one occasion told me I knew nothing about s^x.

He said we hug like brother and sister, well I beg to differ because I would never let a brother be as close to me as my husband gets, but to be right, he uses anything. Now I'm scared to hug as I feel it was nothing but a ploy - it never was about affection which he says is his top need as it is also mine.

I just feel utterly devastated that he can do as he wishes and think I feel all ready for SF overnight. I'm just feeling that SF and an angry man don't make for a healthy libido. It's a killer.

As for plan B, well I have to have somewhere to go first. I'm miles away from any family because of his work and there is no support anywhere. With a disability which works to his advantage - it's more scarier for me to live under constant threats than he thinks, or maybe he does think and knows it terrifies me.

He pulls the "I'm out of here card" at every opportunity, blaming me all the way. He leaves me without the ability to even get myself a drink of tea as the milk is in a place I cannot get to without really hurting myself.

I am not saying I am never to blame for anything, but in honesty, I don't think this man loves me now or ever did and I'm just facing the reality of it.

So from what I have read it sounds as though your husband becomes, angry irrational and abusive when you attempt to bring up issues that bother you. I am assuming from the content that a lot of this surrounds differences between both of your thought processes on acceptable sexual behavior. He obviously enjoyed watching porn ( Most men do) and you feel that watching porn is akin to cheating.***EDIT***

I do agree with everyone else that the abusive behavior must stop immediately so address that first. See if you can get an agreement from him not to have angry outbursts or emotionally abuse you in anyway when you have a need to talk about how you feel about a subject. If he responds well to that then and only then can you move on to the topics that are the heart of your discord. If you cannot get an agreement to stop the abusive behavior then plan B must be executed immediately and do it in Houdini fashion. Be sure he does not know where you have moved to if you make that decision.

***EDIT***

A reminder to help this poster with Marriage Builders concepts. Please refer to Dr. Harley's articles and quotes to make sure you understand those concepts.

Cliffv65, please don't offer your take on porn to me again. Porn is ruining marriages all the time - it ruins women's lives and children's lives, and as it is another point of reference for a man other than his wife, most women view it as cheating.

However, my husband and I are not arguing about porn use at all. Porn is gone.

Cliff, please may I kindly request that you leave my threads alone at this time.

Kind Regards,
Ana

Thank you, Ariel.

I seem to remember that your husband was the one that posted here first. Presumably he came here for help because did not want to lose you? Rather than not loving you perhaps he just does not know how to care for you. I was particularly struck by the fact that he could not understand why you would be upset that he left the door to the house unlocked at night when he knew you had been the victim of a rape.

Did his family of origin treat each other the way he is treating you?

Would you consider counseling with the Harleys? Apologies if this has already been suggested.

Dr. Harley would say that you are not the problem. Dr. Harley would say that his angry outbursts are the problem. The procedure Dr. Harley would recommend is in the links I posted. Did you read them?

Dr. Harley has seen several cases where someone's love busters have created a sexual aversion in their spouse. This appears to be what has happened here. You cannot recover unless the love busters stop.