I forgive you, agapelover.

Now, what have you told your children? Have they been told lies to explain their mother's behavior?

Yes or you will still be doing it all wrong. The "nesting" arrangement you have is crazy IMO...as Mel said, it will screw up your kids. You are a conflict avoider. I would divorce her ASAP and get your kids and yourself out of the lalaland you have helped create. Your WW is a user and doesn't care.

Sorry for your pain but this is not healthy in any way.

I guess you don't see enabling as condoning? Maybe you don't understand it the way the other posters do.

I'm not sure why you see it as hateful. More of a "here's the mistake I see you making." This is an advice site after all; if you don't like all of the advice, you don't have to take it.

Some people say that if it hurts, there must be a grain of truth to it.


Wow, but aren't you being really judgmental by saying that? It sounds to me like you feel all criticism is unchristian or something. But then why post to get help to see if there's anything you can do (i.e., any mistakes you can correct) if you don't want to hear people's opinions as to what you might be able to change? And why is your criticism and calling responses "not very Christian" also not judgmental? Sounds like a double standard.

And really, I wouldn't be arguing with the people who want to help you. Don't you have a bigger fire going than to get mad at people and tell them how to post on a website?


I think the point was to let you know there's a right way and a wrong way to go about this, if you want to succeed, and that these people have much experience and information that can help you. First suggestion would be for you to be a little more open to critique, if you are going to post on an advice site!

right Klove, I won't tolerate it if they disrespect their mother... she is still their mother whether she is in sin or not. I just remember co-parenting class where they said not to talk about it with them. That's the only reason I have covered in any way. I never lied to the children, but I have avoided questions because of the instruction to not involve the children.

I also attend a fatherhood group that is run by a Christian man and he has agreed to counsel me on a regular basis. I am anxious to get on the right path.

With all due respect, agapelover, you are very judgmental yourself. For someone who claims he doesn't advocate it, you sure do make liberal use of it.

But I don't care if you judge me because I know why you are in a rage. You have done a very good job of insulating yourself from the TRUTH and don't want to face the truth. You need to pretend like you are doing something good when all that is happening is a whole lot of enabling and a whole lot of poor judgement.

Lying by omission. They don't care about your children and won't ever be standing before God to answer for this. YOU WILL.

What can we do for you then?

<p>Dr. Bill Harley, clinical paychologist, on telling the children:</p><p> here </p><p></p><p><br> here</p><p> here</p><p></p>

Good heavens, yes!

Markos, I do tend to argue semantics a lot because I see it as logical and different words have different meanings for a reason. I understand the point though if you are saying enable and condone are similar. Enabling does not require intent whereas condoning does. Honestly, I never considered that I was enabling. I have accused others of enabling and until now never saw it. You can say I am a little slow on that, but I'll take that and hopefully won't be so foolish in the future.

It is hateful because she made comments about things she didn't yet understand. rather than ask a question, she judged (actually, pre-judged) and responded, not with advice, but direct criticism. I can take criticism too, but when it comes from a fellow Christian it makes my blood boil. why? because I'm trying to show the world how to be like Christ and the accusing spirit with which she responded was more like the actions of Satan. He is the accuser and Jesus Christ is the redeemer and the advocate and the lover of our souls. Christ himself pointed out sin and asked the redeemed to go and sin no more, but never once did he say, "see you are doing it all wrong and God is going to punish you for that one day" Jesus instructed without condemnation. I would not have been so harsh to a non-Christian. Jesus was also harsh to those who claimed righteousness (Whitewashed cups that are clean outside and filthy inside). He was never harsh to a sinner who admitted their sin as I have done here on this site. I was not being judgmental, I recognized an evil spirit and called it out just as the verse SHE quoted asked us to do. If she repents and asks forgiveness, then I have no problem with her. My only problem is not with her anyway but with her sin. not only that, but you see that she is refusing to apologize but rather condescendingly said that she forgives me. That is not forgiveness, but rather condescension and it too is evil.

I do NOT wish to argue with people who wish to help me. If someone is helpful they will have my ear. If they are not they will not. If they condemn and Judge while claiming Christ? that I cannot abide. Not when a bad witness negatively effects mine. It is not me that is hurt, rather it is Christ and His message that suffers with that kind of speech.

Your anger and judgmentalism is more like the actions of Satan than that of Christ.

No one's forcing you to stay. We were just fine before you got here

Okay, so do you want to get help from people who have been where you are and have been successfully helping marriages like yours for years? Or do you just want to argue and criticize and judge everybody who wants to help you?

I would drop the attitude and ask these people to help you and answer their questions so they can help you. I have seen miracles happen here, but they usually don't happen when the person who needs help is lecturing and arguing instead of listening.


Well it sounds like you have an anger management problem, then. I did, too, and got some very helpful advice for it here, and have almost completely eliminated angry outbursts in my life.

Did you know that when you let yourself get angry, you are choosing to become temporarily insane? It leads to doing things that are very counterproductive, like being mean to nice people who are trying to help you see what mistakes you are making and what you can change to better your situation.

I've been here three years watching marriages be saved and watching people give and give of their time and experience here, sometimes staying up half the night to help people in need. You have no idea how much love is behind the posts that you branded as "hateful."


Actually you have yet to own up to the fact that you've been a real jerk to some really nice people who really want to help you. But anyway, that's fine, and they don't have to keep trying to help you.


But you don't even know what is helpful and what is not. Your best thinking has not managed to salvage your situation. You really don't know what you are talking about and would do well to take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth.

http://biblehub.com/james/1-19.htm

(Hint: repent of that one.)

That was very judgmental, agapelover. However, It is not a "sin" to disagree with you and point out your own complicity in your wife's corrupt behavior. You are not showing the world how to "be like Christ" when you do that. Do you have anger management issues? It sure appears that way.

THIS. READ THIS.
The people who post here do so because they have been through hell in their marriages, and many have recovered either their marriages, or their lives. They post because they LOVE people, and want to HELP people get out of hell, too. They are dedicated to volunteering their own free time to do so.

Melodylane is one of the most loving people I know.

You want some help or not? Slapping the hand that's reaching out to help you is not the way to go about getting it.

One of the hardest things to cope with is deciding when it is time to move on. I've known those who have made it work and others that continued getting back together only to waste years of continued lies and deception. Do you honestly believe you could ever trust again or are you clinging to what use to be? I wish you the best on whatever path you decide to follow.



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Agape,
You have a very unhealthy idea of what being a Christian really means.

Christ was nice until it was time to not be nice. He healed the sick and tossed moneychangers out on their ear. He spoke truth and also condemmed some others as white washed tombs. He compassionately dies for us but also rebuked the woman at the well.

Please don't pass judgement on Melody or other Christians when you really have no idea what a Christian is.Case in point (and what Melody is telling you) is the un-Christian method you have chosen to handle this situation.

I believe you. I believe that Melody is possibly one of the most loving people you know <serious, without sarcasm>. Even now you are both saying that I have an anger issue because I'm the newb and I pointed out a sin in a very nice woman's life.

I wouldn't be here if I didn't want help, but circling the wagons around obvious sin is not helpful any more than the highly critical statements she made without having the whole story. I haven't lashed out at you nor your husband and you have said things that make me uncomfortable too. Black Raven also told me to do something that I hate to do, but I will if it will save my marriage, but he also didn't say I wasn't serious before we even started. If I weren't serious I would have run after the first comment from melody. It is not the act of pointing out error that I am speaking about, but rather the spirit in which it was said. Please, just acknowledge that Christ would not have judged in that way. In all this crap and through all of my terrible mistakes I have a wonderful story as well. a story of redemption and hope. A story that has inspired me to write a book based on prophecy and dreams related to this story. God has been with me and speaking to me throughout it all and right now I am very confused. I'll tell you why I'm confused: I found a website two years after my separation that I see could have helped me avoid a multitude of issues and yet the moment I set letter to the page I was judged so harshly before my story was even fully known. No questions, no clarifications, but Judgement.

I'm conflicted as to why God waited so long to bring me here... especially if my marriage still ends in failure, especially when I feel it could have been saved with earlier action. Conflicted, because a website that gives so much hope could take it away in an instant of careless inconsideration. I love this concept. I never heard anything like it before. I've done a LOT of reading and have been advised in several different directions, choosing instead to follow God's lead and now being led to here. Why? But first:

Melody,
I am very sorry if you feel I attacked you for the comments, but go back and put yourself in the shoes of someone who is not nearly as confident as I am. They would have run to hills crying about no one understanding them, and possibly judging the entire church as self-righteous (as the media and others already do for reasons similar to this). I wonder how many salvageable marriages have been lost because of similar posts.

Perhaps, I can be helped here. why else would God lead me here. I was already convinced it was right before I ever posted in this forum. My only worry was that I found it too late (thus the question)

"NO, YOU ARE NOT TOO LATE!! You screwed up, yes, but it's never too late when God is in control. Why did you let her have your credit card? that was silly don't you think?" What a great response that would have been. Loving, thoughtful, perhaps spirit led? Definitely Christ-like. That is not what I got. If Melody has the answer then I'm all about Melody, but if I were a lesser man I may have run and never found my answer from melody because she responded in a spirit of condemnation. I want your help. I also want EVERYONE who needs help and needs God and needs love to find it here. Every post, every comment, with no exceptions. Did God bring me here to help me? Absolutely. Would I have pointed out melody's error if I had found it two years ago? Absolutely not. I probably would have just left. You are here for me and I am here for you. Let him hear who has ears to hear. Now... I'm all ears.

Wow. You don't understand Christ at all. Christ "judged" continually. Christ rebuked, Christ lost his temper, Christ was sarcastic, Christ was scathing. In ALL of these cases He loved the ones he chastised.

Jennick,
I do believe I can trust again. That may actually be another of my flaws. I trusted her even while she was cheating on me. When I confronted her she denied it and I trusted her story even though it still seemed fishy. eventually, I learned the truth through multiple reliable sources and took action based on that. Even then I wanted to trust her, but could not and after the restraining order I proceeded with legal action. Could I trust her again? Absolutely. Should I? I'm hoping to learn when I should rather than if I can.