He was working crazy long hours up until his last day at his old job, so I haven't seen much of him. His new job tracks his hours and won't let him work overtime without preapproval, so I'm relieved. We should see more of him now.

How is your UA time?

Or... you could quietly implement MB by planning some hot dates, prime the pump... and then make your sales pitch again!

Our UA time is practically non-existent. We are working on that now that his schedule isn't crazy.

I'm bummed that he still throws DJs around. Today on 2 different occasions he asked me a question and instead of letting me answer, he said "so you could.... or so you could...." So rude!

I snapped at him about it after the 2nd time. I know he is working on how he says things to me. I don't know if he realizes that the biggest step in stopping DJs is to stop THINKING them...even if he doesn't say them.

So true HHH.

I did ask him what he thought about us working out together again so we could get some UA time in. By the time we get the kids settled each night we will only have about 3 hrs of time alone IF he is committed to UA time. I don't know if he is.

I told him that in a perfect world I'd rather spend four 4hr date nights a week together. He asked how that is possible? I asked him to think outside the box with me.

I asked if he felt like this is just another thing on his TO DO list, and he said sort of. He reminded me how much stress he has been under, and I felt a little sad.

I know we aren't excited about spending time together because we haven't spent time together, so it's no surprise that UA time would seem like work to him at this point.

I should have read HHH's post BEFORE this afternoon. I'll just try to make it light and practice MB myself.

It can be tiring to do the heavy lifting alone, but he has told me that he does want to spend time with me. I just think he is overwhelmed.

Firetruck his stress, you are his stress relief - a couple hours of fun activity, then grind him into the box-spring.


Pffff, what stress?


Ask him about a couple of different activities, and then look at which ones you would enjoy as well - then plan to do those activities together.

haha. Wow HHH.

I like that. I thought of this post several times yesterday. We have been so serious for so long that it seems most things are a TASK.

I like the light-hearted way you look at it. I think I'll adopt that attitude.

I will try to arrange the day around making sure I work out with Ship tonight.

One thing that bothered me was when I mentioned using workouts as UA time he said that I shouldn't expect him to stop and touch me or have a conversation. He uses it as stress relief.

We've had good things happen to us lately and yet there is still sadness and a heaviness about him. Of course, that affects me as well.

We have been working out together on a fairly regular basis now. If we don't go to the gym to lift weights, then we do Insanity at home. We have been doing quite a bit of sitting on the couch after taking a shower from the workout because we are so exhausted from the day (Ship gets up for work at 5:30 and has to commute to be at his new job by 7am).

We have been having a lot more frequent SF, and I think it is because I'm starting to feel better physically and have noticed that my interest has really picked up! I've lost some weight and have about 9 lbs to go to get back to my pre-pregnancy weight. I'd also like to lose another 10 lbs after that and am on the right track.

Ship now has every other Friday off at work in exchange for working 9 hour days the rest of the week. He has been getting home around 5:45pm most days. That is great! Last Friday was his first Friday off, and we took our little girls to the zoo together. It was really fun.

We did go through some very stressful couple of months and I had a heart to heart with Ship about the way I was feeling. He was lashing out at me when a problem came up. I told him I was not the enemy, and I needed his input to make decisions. I told him I was feeling neglected and that he wasn't meeting my emotional needs. He was shocked because I had been so good at affirming him (great provider, pleasant to look at, pleasant to touch, great father, strong, smart, etc.)

I told him that all of those things are true, but I also need him to meet my emotional needs (affection & affirmation being the top two.) He didn't respond positively because I was having this conversation late in the evening when he was going to sleep. I told him I'd been waiting and waiting to talk with him, and now I needed to tell him.

I told him that it's gotten so bad that I look around at other men and wonder if they could love me? If they would? And that scared me! Then I ended the conversation by saying that he could never say that I didn't tell him there was a problem.

As it came up I would point out how disrespectfully he was treating me, and he would have angry outbursts often. When I threw up my hands and told him I didn't know what to do with him anymore at the last uncaring conversation we had, I could almost see him turning things around in his mind. My voice had broken trying to hold back tears. He then changed how he spoke to me and we worked together to solve the problem.

Lately there have been lots more touches, lots more smiles, laughter, joking, affirmation---time spent together. We have worked on solutions together without LBs. We make a great team.

And I feel like I can breathe again! Not to mention I want to jump his bones! lol

Amazing what RC and UA time does for a R.

How much UA time are you getting? Time away from the girls?

We get about 2-3 hours a night during the week of UA time (mostly RC and then sometimes SF).

We then usually have a couple of hours on Sat and again on Sunday, but it's not done properly.

We don't leave the house, we sit on the couch after the workout and watch TV or surf the internet (while showing affection).

The weekends have mainly involved going to get flowers for the yard together with the baby in tow. She is so little that she takes very little energy from us, but it's not ideal.

All I know is that the affection and affirmation have increased and in turn so has SF.

I'm hoping Ship will work with me to really focus on getting quality UA time. He's been so tired lately.

I'd guess we average about 12-15 hours a week UA time, and only 5-6 hours of that is truly away from home with no kids.

Even so...what a dramatic improvement! Not sure how to work with Ship on getting quality UA time though.

How do you arrange it without demanding it or making it sound like yet another thing he "needs" to do?

How about sit down on Sundays and schedule UA for the week?

Why is Ship so tired -- can you guys schedule more sleep in there somewhere?

Or get him lots of caffeinated beverages?

Hi Brain,

I have done this in the past, and it was very frustrating for me. Ship is most definitely not on board with "being told what to do."

I'm not interested in doing anything he is not enthusiastic about. I guess I've been such a demanding spouse in the past that he may not believe that.

The last time I sat down with him to schedule UA time, he sat across the table from me and barely interacted with me. He answered questions "yes" "no" but he didn't give me any ideas or brainstorm with me.

It felt one-sided.

I haven't sat down to schedule anything with him since.

Hi markos!

Well, Ship started a new job a little over a month ago that has him get up between 5:30-6 so he can be at work by 7am. He works 9 hour days and commutes almost an hour each way.

He has very long days.

Then we deal with 4 kids and workout together...maybe have a little SF (2-3x a week right now).

And that's about it.

We did go to a movie this past weekend, but it was not a fun date at all. We were arguing.

His fatigue comes from just plain working hard and having a family. We are doing fairly well at this point, but Ship has not adopted MB for himself.

So if any of you have followed my thread all the way through, you will know that I didn't know about MB when we were recovering from Ship's affairs.

I did not expose fully.

Currently, I am helping a friend who is a BS. I encouraged her to snoop after seeing the signs of an affair, and she now has some proof. She is scared. She is hurting.

And now I'm hurting.

Is that normal? When y'all help others on this forum going through the trauma of an affair, does it upset you again?

My hurt comes from the fact that she is able to make the choice right now to expose and fully bring it to the light of day. I'm talking to her about how much it will help, and I'm feeling so sad.

Ship is a very kind and actually deeply compassionate person, but for some reason he does not show empathy well.

He has been asking me what is wrong for the past few weeks and I finally broke down and talked with him about it yesterday.

I brought up what happened between us and told him how sad I was that he never did what I needed to heal properly. He never came "hat in hand" like I read about. He was sorry, but he wasn't willing to do whatever it took to help me heal.

I wanted his family to know, and I want to have a marriage ministry that uses what we've been through to help other people.

I asked if he truly understood what he did to me, and he said "I destroyed you. Does that cover it?"

I told him that our past and how we deal with it now has more to do with HIS feelings than it does mine. He angrily said, "I've told you. Just go ahead and tell whoever you need to." That is not what I need. I need "hat in hand."

I never truly got it, and it really hurts.

I guess I shouldn't be helping other people if we never recovered properly ourselves...especially if it upsets me and I bring it up to Ship. He said he HATES that conversation, and I don't blame him.

Please, can't I just forget about it? Why do I feel like I need more from him after all this time?

And why wouldn't he be willing to?

Anointed, Dr. Harley usually says that if you are still feeling like this, it's because there are still problems in your marriage. In the present. Are there love busters in your marriage? Are you following the policy of undivided attention (rigorously)? These are the things to focus on with your husband, and be specific.

STOP BRINGING UP THE AFFAIR. Dr. Harley is pretty clear on this. Ship was wrong to have an angry outburst at you, but you never should have put him in that conversation in the first place. Figure out what needs to change to make a happy present and future and quit trying to fix the past.

I think you are getting caught up on the "hat in hand" phrase. That is Dr. Harley's rule of thumb for whether or not it is worth a wife risking her health to try to recover with a wayward husband. It is not a punishment for the wayward husband; it is not something that gives the betrayed wife lasting satisfaction and recovery. There are wives here whose husbands did NOT start with "hat in hand" repentance who still made it - typically at great cost. In their cases the husbands eventually came around to making the PRESENT marriage good, and it sounds like Ship has come to that point.

As far as telling people, I don't understand why you didn't tell your family and his family a year or two back when we were all posting about that, but if I remember right, you talked to Dr. Harley on the radio, and I would suggest you follow his advice. (BrainHurts can probably figure out the exact link to the show if you need. ) Don't tell people just to force him to be contrite.

What you need is not "hat in hand" repentance. What you need is good conversation, 15-30 hours a week, accompanied by affection, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment, with no love busters. Figure out what part of that is lacking and be honest and specific to Ship about it.

Having that conversation is a violation of Dr. Harley's recommendations. It's an enemy of good conversation:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5056_qa.html

(This material is in the conversation chapter of His Needs, Her Needs. Why don't you and Ship go through it together, as part of building a happy present and future?)

Aha, there is the problem (in bold).

Why not try to win him over to follow the program by showing him what is in it for him? As a perfect example, the program specifies that you not dwell on each other's mistakes of the past, and I'm sure he would love to make an agreement with you to follow that rule! Get out His Needs, Her Needs and go over the conversation chapter together. Show him what's in it for him. In the most recent edition, Dr. Harley uses the conversation chapter to basically spell out the entire Marriage Builders program: fifteen hours a week of conversation a week, following the friends of good conversation, avoiding the enemies (which include dwelling on mistakes of the past or present, and demands, disrespect, and angry outbursts), joined with recreational companionship.

Stop NOT doing the program. Start doing it.

So in other words, you are hurting, not because of what Ship has done. (Not saying it didn't hurt) You are hurting because of other factors, things you could have done better, personal regrets, and so forth.

Seems like a judgement. Like his manner of showing empathy is found lacking.

Not very good radical honesty if he's been asking what is wrong and you avoid giving the answer.

It's hard to be empathetic when you are "told" things are fine, or at least hid them and expect the other person to figure out what is wrong and provide the right amount and type of empathy.

Is it possible that your actions contribute to the empathy problems?
Did he say he wasn't willing, or do you sit in judgment?
Dose he want a marriage ministry? The family knowing is part of exposure. The marriage ministry is a POJA issue.

Who says he's not willing to do more?

What is he willing to do? What has he done already?

You need more because everybody needs a marriage free of love busters, with emotional needs met.

STOP linking it to the affair. You are shooting yourself in the foot and killing your chances of getting your needs met. The affair is not a weapon to use to force him to meet your needs. Everybody needs their emotional needs met, affair or not.

Those needs aren't going to go away after "time." And those needs were not caused by a long ago affair. And him feeling bad about the past will not meet those needs, no matter how bad he feels. It will never give him the ability to read your mind and figure out what you need. You have to tell him, following the Marriage Builders policy of radical honesty.

Have you ever talked to your husband about Marriage Builders without talking about his past mistake? I would imagine he feels very averse to talking about it if it always means having to think about his past mistakes again. He probably thinks of Marriage Builders as being something that keeps the resentment alive for years, and probably doesn't realize that Marriage Builders tells you to stop talking about his affair.