I guess he'd better get cracking on meeting your needs, then.

Thank you all.

This really sucks. It truly does.

Anointed, as married couples, we should be holding each other accountable when the other behaves badly, not enabling them. Look at Markos and Prisca for example, when he acted up she put the hammer down fast. As a result he has changed his behavior nod now receives what he needs in his marriage. If she had not done that, he would still be love busting her in a miserable marriage.

I understand. I guess I am an enabler. I always thought I was a tough cookie...

I'm wondering where to go from here. Right now the ball is in Ship's court.

Tell him great, no problem.

Then, do nothing.

Let him go first, since he believes this. He should just meet your needs anyway if that's what he believes, right? Sounds like this works out great for you!



Anyway, don't debate his belief. He can hold that debate by himself in an empty room. It doesn't matter if he believes it or not. I promise you, this works. Just do it whether he believes it or not. Don't hold a discussion on it.

"He thinks we should both just meet each others' needs period."

Funny how he believes this but DOESN'T DO IT.

He expects you to do this, but not him. He expects you to meet his needs without reciprocation, but doesn't like it when you propose that he has to start meeting your needs if he wants this to continue.

Doesn't sound fair, to me.

Do you notice that his belief here is all words and not backed up with action? And totally doesn't work?

Have you seen this?

What's Wrong with Unconditional Love Part One?

Yes markos. I get it.

I'm just tired of going round with him.

Just tired.

Hi Brain. Yes, I've seen it. Didn't think I was doing that, but I see that I was.

So he came home late tonight and when I asked him where he was he said he was "considering his options."

ETA: He is considering his options because I exposed.

He's trying to make you feel guilty. Don't let him.

Anointed, I would let him know that you are considering your options too. He needs to know that your marriage is not going to make unless he gets on board with the MB program. His lovebusters, manipulation games, punishments are not going to work. I would put him on notice now that you won't tolerate this abusive behavior anymore. You don't deserve it and won't put up with it.

Put him on notice, Anointed. Now is the right time.

I second that.

I thought the exact same thing, word for word.

And I'm saying, don't go round with him any more. He's entitled to his totally unworkable belief, but he's going to feel really silly when that boils down to no sex, no needs met. He might start to reevaluate his beliefs at that point, without any need to discuss it.

It is all part of what we discussed yesterday: let him make his decisions, don't try to control them for him.

Ah, okay. Let him consider that for awhile, then, by himself, with no needs met. But let him know you don't intend to wait around forever.

Didn't read your posts until now. We've been discussing our "options" tonight.

I think we are both serious about making some major changes.

Ship is hurting. And I hate it.

is he manipulating you again with his "hurt?" He is hurting because of HIS ACTIONS, you are hurting because of his too. His "hurt" is a consequence of his own bad behavior. Now is the time to hold him accountable for some real changes, Anointed. Don't tolerate his abusive behavior anymore.

Don't let him manipulate you anymore, Anointed. Tell him push has come to shove and it is time for real change.

Anointed, I remember when my ex was talking divorce, how unsettled it made me feel. Remember if you two are to be together, it will work out. He's fighting to assert that he can curse around you, make judgments about you because of what your presences are and are not, instead of sharing SF in ways you both enjoy. But it's temporary. You are acting as a Buyer now. Someone who takes actions that lead to the long term happiness of your family. As opposed to the Renter, trying to soothe him so into believing the old way was sustainable for you when it wasn't.

My suggestion is to make sure you get your 15 hours of FC time in, with an emphasis on RC. We used to play soccer in the backyard after dinner, so it was easy for my ex to join. And then if he didn't, that was okay, the kids and I had a blast. We needed that. We all needed that.

Yes, I understand that his actions have caused him this pain.

It is real hurt and hard to watch.

We had a serious, serious discussion last night that almost came to letting everyone know we are divorcing.

He is willing to learn MB and apply it's principles for 3 months (all of it, not just pieces.)

He will not post here because he does not like the way you talk to him, and he is upset that I have not come to his defense. He doesn't understand how you can know MB principles but will use DJs here on the forum.

The man I saw last night was broken. I want him to be able to come here to learn, but I don't think he will.

He has been the type to be just as blunt as you all have been. But he does not like the name calling and the disrespectful comments.

Would you consider approaching him as someone who is really hurting and needs encouragement? I'd really love for him to use this forum one day.

I don't believe he was manipulating me last night. We laid everything on the table. What did we want and are we willing to do it?

We will apply MB. He said he would learn the program and listen to the broadcasts.

I will continue to do my part as well, and if he has AOs I will take the kids and leave the house to let him adjust. I give him permission to do the same if I am acting inappropriately. He says I don't scream and yell like I used to but I do speak rudely which he perceives to be an AO.

He also wants to work on our finances to get us in a more stable position.

I am very open to learning the program, and I'm incredibly thankful for the clarifications I've gotten so far. Please keep teaching me.

Thank you NED.

I've learned so much about not rescuing everyone around me from pain. I'm very empathetic, and when someone hurts I just want to stop it.

I agree that we should spend time together as a family, but I do believe Ship has committed to 15 hrs/week UA time (real UA time)

I believe he has committed to learning to eliminate all DJs and AOs. He realized that he has damaged almost every relationship in his life, and I believe he wants to surround himself with friends and family.

He knows something has been wrong since he "has no one" around him, and I believe he is willing to take a hard look at what that is.