Brief update and some more questions...

BH and I have been doing well given the circumstances. There are days that are absolutely incredible and you can feel and see our love and marriage getting back on the right track. But then there are days where something will come to his mind and set him off on a downward spiral and the doubts come flooding back in.

I am being as supportive as I can through all of it. Gifts, notes, random acts of kindness, communicating and being honest when questions are asked. It seems to help. But there are times when I get really frustrated that my previous actions have caused such a mess. I feel like every word that comes out of my mouth holds zero credibility regardless of the subject.

I have been reading Surviving An Affair and am currently 1/2 way through it. BH says he will gladly read it next. I'm on a chapter right now that has me a little confused. It's the chapter that begins to talk about what the BS and WS need to do to move forward in the marriage. (Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgment, Angry Outburst)

It seems selfish to ask him to treat me or our marriage with any respect after what I've done.
My question is...
Isn't it healthier for my husband to express his emotions rather then bottle them up? (Angry Outbursts)
It seems after such outbursts he almost feels better for the time being.

This is really typical for post-affair. We call it the roller coaster. Adultery is about the worst thing that can happen to a person, and the betrayed spouse experiences a LOT of emotion. It's normal, but there are better ways to get through this time.


Actions speak a lot louder than words, so keep up with all you are doing. On the other hand, your husband will need to be meeting your needs as well. And both of you need to avoid all love busters.


It's not selfish to want all the love busters to stop. They will have to stop in order to proceed through recovery. Every time you experience a love buster, it will withdraw love units from his account in your love bank. So although it's natural and normal to feel anger and disrespect, your husband must not express either emotion to you, because it make you love him less and will not help him anyway.

Regarding your husband's anger: Dr. Harley discusses this at length in his book Love Busters. He recommends learning to control anger through relaxation. This process actually changes the pathways in our brain.

We become insane when we are angry, doing and saying things we would do or say when we are calm. Your husband absolutely must learn to relax when he gets angry. Sure, he might feel better for a little while, but meanwhile, his "feeling a little better" is at your expense.

In order to recover your marriage, both of you have to develop new habits with each other that will eventually bring your marriage to a much better place than the pre-A marriage.

You should consider getting another copy of SAA and he could read through it while you're reading your own copy. He needs to understand how to get through this.

When the present is better and the future has hope, the resentment he feels right now will fade.

He may not respect you at this time, but if he wants to recover the marriage, he still must not commit love busters and you should be learning what each others ENs are and meeting them.

Do you have HNHN and LB? They are excellent books to read through together.

Are you two spending at least 20 hours a week together doing enjoyable things?

I purchased the HNHN dvd and the H and I have watched some of it. We also filled out the questionnaire. Husband was concerned and not very happy with some on my EN and they ranking of them. Maybe it was to soon after the affair to be looking into needs? I don't know.

No I haven't purchased LB. But plan on doing so. I just figured SAA was the most critical to be reading first.

When we aren't working, H and I have spent every hour with each other since I exposed my A to him. Both enjoyable and less enjoyable time (fighting, etc.). But yes, I would say that at least 20 hours or more are enjoyable and stress free.

Twice a week I work longer days then the H and we are coming to discover that in my absence is when he starts to question and doubt all over again. It's like he takes a single thought and runs with it. Next thing you know 1 thought snowballs to a whole evening of pain and confusion. On those long days I brace myself before walking in the door and try to be strong, understanding and supportive of his feelings.

Why was your H concerned about the ranking of your ENs? Each of us is unique in our needs, and men's needs are often ranked differently from that of a woman's. Only you will know exactly what your needs are and which are most important. This really isn't for your H to question with disrespect, if that's what he's doing; it might be confusing to him, though?

No, it's not too soon after the affair to look into each other's ENs. However, it might be necessary to consider doing Love Busters first. Dr. Harley recommended LB first for us, because we really struggled with recovery at first. We were fine at meeting needs, for the most part, but after H's affair, I was very VERY angry and disrespectful. Very....And I needed to work on ending my AO's, regardless of the cause.



Do you have the revised version of SAA? It's laid out differently from the first version and is even better and more helpful. If you don't have it, I recommend getting it.


Okay, that's good that you are spending those hours together. However, they must be enjoyable for it to work in the favor of your marriage. (You two sound a lot like us, except in who had the affair.) You both must stop the fighting. Fighting is going to be a huge detriment to your recovery. We went through the same thing. We'd be having a wonderful time, and then suddenly, all these thoughts, horrible thoughts, would pour into my head, and then I'd say them, cry them, shout them. So much anger on my part. The anger never helped me feel better, it didn't make my H feel better, and it didn't help recovery. I HAD to learn to control it. Period. And so does your H.

If he fights with you, don't fight back. It takes two to fight. But you should leave the room, saying, "This conversation isn't pleasant or safe anymore. I'm going to step out and calm down. Let's talk again when we are both calm, okay, honey?"


Yes, the times when H and I were apart were when my thoughts did the same thing. Can your H find some interesting and engaging things to do while you are away from each other? He needs to find something else to think about and learn to change his thoughts when the bad ones jump in.

When my thoughts started to run away with me, I had to forcibly make myself think of the present. "What is H doing today?" Sure the past was crappy, but the present was fine. And the future was looking hopeful.

Is your H on board with MB? What about considering taking the Online Seminar? Will your H come and post on this forum and get some help and support for what he's going through?

I would say put the priority on SAA, then LB, then HNHN.

Avoid fighting at all costs. Avoid fighting like you would avoid the mutually assured destruction of a nuclear war. Love Busters will show you how to learn to do that.

I think husband was concerned about the ranking of my EN because he tends to think that in reality things like attention/admiration are not as important and don't last. That over time a marriage will fall into a routine and that you can't expect someone to give constant affection and attention in life, that sometimes there are other priorities.

On a side note, H created 2 new topics for his top EN's. "True Love" and "Friendship". I agree with those whole heartedly but I think that the 10 EN's Dr. Harley came up with are sub categories to those.

Not sure the version of SAA that I have, I purchased it used on Amazon. But I will check.

When I say fighting, mostly I mean he gets angry and upset and starts the name calling and degrading statements and I cry and get frustrated. It ends up with him feeling like I'm looking for pity. He tries to read and interpret my body language through every conversation. Do I raise and eyebrow? Did I look away? Did my words stumble? etc. and in return the frustration on my part multiplies. But I do understand every word and every movement I make for now is being judge and rightfully so.

H doesn't know much about MB other then me reading some articles to him and discussing Dr. Harley books and dvds. He said that he had stumbled upon the site once or twice but that was about it. Not sure if H would join, guess It hasn't crossed my mind to ask. I'm so focused on making sure that I'm making all the right steps and moves to repair the damage I have done and trying to find a way to ease his pain, I have to remind myself that even though I'm the one that did the damage that unfortunately it will take both of us to recover our marriage.

You're right in that recovery will indeed require effort from both you. And actually, many men hate to hear that Dr. Harley places a great deal of the burden on husbands. In the case of adultery on the part of the wife, he says that men need to woo their wives back and eliminate the conditions that led to the affair.

Dr. Harley would tell your husband that his angry outbursts HAVE to go. Did he have an anger problem before your affair?

No anger problem at all before affair. He did have some issues with holding grudges on things from the past though. Most things were prior to our relationship. And no he doesn't have grudges because I've had a pervious A, this is my first A. I have no history of cheating before.

Well, you and your H have a shot at recovery, but you both have to doing it, or your marriage will just limp along.

It's understandable that he would be angry and resentful, but, in order to make the marriage work, he's going to have to jump into the program and do this right.

You two can end up with a passionate, romantic, safe marriage that is very fulfilling to both of you, but it will take a full effort from both of you.

When you fill out the questionnaires together, he's going to have to avoid making any disrespectful judgments about your ENs. His job will be to meet them, and vice versa, of course.

It would be really great if you both decided to sign up for the Online Seminar program. That's what we did, and we have a great marriage now. It was the best thing we ever did for our marriage.

What does the online seminar program consist of?

Here's the link to all the study courses: Here

We paid for the online seminar, specifically wanting the accountability coach. We just could not seem to get our worksheets filled out, and I really needed help in dealing with tremendous anger and resentment towards my H after his affair, along with years of love busters.

So what you get is both the HNHN and LB books and audio tapes, a coach who you can communicate with when necessary, and the seminar online that Dr. Harley used to teach in person. You also have access to the private forum where you can ask Dr. Harley your questions directly. He will answer within a couple of days usually. You can read all the other questions, too, which is very helpful.

The accountability portion helps with follow up for each lesson and worksheet. Periodically you will each receive a questionnaire designed to track your love for each other.

Even after the seminar is complete, the private forum is available as long as desired and Dr. Harley will monitor how the marriage is doing through the online love bank questionnaire.

The part where the coach was very helpful was in figuring out ways I could stop my angry outbursts. She was also very encouraging in keeping us going.

It's really worth it, if you are both willing. Our marriage is so much better than it ever has been in our many years of marriage.

Have you already instituted your extraordinary precautions? The MB way is to figure out the conditions that led to the affair and eliminate each one. They are non-negotiable and are designed to prevent another affair.

Yes an no on the EP's. Soon to be 100% YES. Originally H just requested that I block incoming/outgoing texts/calls from the OMs number even though I offered to change my number. I deleted my FB account(even though there was no contact through FB with OM), I got rid of my smart phone and besides that there are no other ties to OM(He lived in a different State and we have never met so relocating, changing jobs or routines are not needed).

But as of last night H said he had thought more on the situation and requested that I change my number and email address (email was never used to contact OM either, just a word game app and texting). I didn't argue and 100% agreed that it needed to be done.

Our only standing issue with EP's is my Kindle... Do you think it would be wise to ditch the Kindle? Primarily I used (have not touched it since A was disclosed a month ago) my kindle for reading but unfortunately I did have access to the App that originally started my A on it. The app has been deleted but I don't want my H to feel like I can download and delete it again. I already exhibited my ability to erase and delete my tracks and don't want my H to feel any threat. H says don't ditch the Kindle but I willing to do whatever it takes.

I would ditch it, it would put your WS mind at ease.

Good. And it's great that your H is thinking along these lines. You want to make it impossible for OM to contact you. A number can be blocked/unblocked in a moment.


I don't know much about the workings of a Kindle. I use one but it's never online. Is there a way to completely remove the ability to go online? Or have the online access PW-protected, so that only your H can allow access (for downloading books.)

Another very important EP is to NEVER have an OS friend with whom you share intimate conversation. This is how affairs start. You were enjoying recreation without your H. Going forward, all your favorite recreational activities should be with your H. And any recreation with OS friends should be eliminated. That would, of course, ban online gaming.

One of my H's EPs is to NEVER do online gaming, even though that wasn't how his affair started.

The goal is to create a transparent and integrated lifestyle - so much so that an affair will become essentially impossible.

Were you able to talk with your H about what you have been learning on MB? Have you answered all his questions about the A: how it started, what were the conditions, etc. Now that he has the answers, will he agree never to bring it up again? Will he agree to eliminate his angry outbursts?

I'm sure we can negotiate the Kindle use. I think we will be able to block any internet activity and will be able to change it to H's Amazon account where he can monitor and control the parental type settings. I'll even suggest changing his password and not allowing me to know it. In the end I may just get rid of it anyway though.

Neither of us have any OS friendships other then 2 close couples whom we go out with, we have known them for years and they are like an extended part of our family. Never have one of us participated in anything recreational without out the other spouse being present. He agreed that any OS friends should be out of the question for both of us in the future.

We did speak of MB a little more last night. And I shared a little of what I've been learning by reading SAA with him. He seems interested in reading it. I have not yet mentioned the Online Seminar and haven't had the chance to look into it much further yet.

I have answered all of his questions on the A. I'm having a hard time understanding why the details were important for him to know. It seems that the details only cause him to be reminded of my A everywhere he turns. I admit I did withhold details at the beginning at fear of him hearing too much and deciding against us being together. I understand now that that was the wrong approach.

The last obstacle we are trying to work through is that there were some unexplained picture mail charges on my account that started the day before I returned home to fix our marriage to the beginning of July. I absolutely know for a fact and am 1000% positive that I did not contact the OM once I returned home except for the NC text which H was present for. H even contacted OM himself through text. We have contacted Sprint numerous times for them to get us a detailed report numbers/date/times of the information on the picture mail. At the time frame that Sprint had listed the 12 picture mail, it was during my account plan change and phone change. So I'm hoping that has something to do with it. I told H every picture mail I could recall prior to my return and it did not add up to the 12 my bill claims. Any suggestions if Sprint can't pull through with my account details? I know what's at stake and H says that if he proves that I'm lying again that the marriage is over. And I believe him.

I'm not sure if he is in a position to say he will never bring it up again just yet. We are still only a month into my exposer of my A. Last night he agreed that his AO do not help and has agreed to try and eliminate them the best he can.

Hopefully someone can jump in here and help you with the questions about the Sprint charges. I have a dumb phone, have always had a dumb phone (because they're so cheap) and have no idea into the way smart phones work.

You could get a polygraph to prove your honesty regarding the past. And then promise to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty going forward.

You two sound like you're going into recovery on the right foot. I know it sounds so easy to say "Just never speak of the affair again." It's not easy. I failed at it quite a few times. I finally had to use a conversation worksheet from the Five Steps workbook and talk with our coach about the problem. I would start out each day with a clean slate and try to get through a morning, an afternoon, an evening with no mention. I didn't always succeed, and each time I brought it up only brought more misery. My H, thankfully, restrained himself very well; not everyone can/will do so. We finally agreed that if I did bring up the A, he would gently tell me that we are not following MB and let's talk about something else or do something else. It was an intense lesson in discipline with accountability.

Once you and your H understand and eliminate the conditions that led to your affair, and you've instituted EPs, then it's time to move on to the restoration of romantic love in your marriage. Once the present is pleasant, the resentment over the past will fade.

How long did it take you and your H to fully recover?

My H views my A as the perfect storm. My timing was way more then inappropriate, I came clean about 2 weeks prior to our 1 year anniversary and both our birthdays. But believe me I did not plan it to be that way.

He is already dreading our birthdays and 2 year anniversary for they will always serve as a reminder to my infidelity to him.
Any suggestions on that?

It took us a little over two years. I was in love with my H again within the first year, but I was still consumed periodically with anger and resentment. Now that it's been really great for over two years, I have no more resentment. We have a wonderful marriage now - better than it ever was in the past. It is passionate, romantic, and safe.

My anger was pretty ferocious for the first year. It began to taper off after we signed up for the online program and had more accountability and help.

The triggers of the dates will fade over time, as your marriage becomes what it should have been all along.

New day. New question(s).

Well we are on our way into two months since I exposed my A to my H. Things can still be a roller coaster at times but overall I can see and feel the improvement.

My question today is we are having trouble with the "triggers". H had asked me sometime ago that even if I have small "details" of my A come into my mind, he wants me to share them with him.
Over the course of the past few months those small "details" are what seems to be setting us back. H will ask a question or we will begin to talk about my A and any honest and open information I share he takes and runs with it. I guess I'm reluctant to state something I remember from my A to him when it comes to mind because I feel like I am being punished for being open and honest. It's just another "trigger" to add to the list.

I'm sure anyone who has been betrayed like my H can relate but at what point is it going to get better? It seems like a "trigger" can be found every second of the day. How can I help him with the "triggers" and yet still be open and honest?

You should have ONE discussion about the affair, where all of your BS's questions are addressed, and then never talk about it again. That is a basic MB requirement. You shouldn't be having these running discussions. That will trigger any BS.