Really? He does nothing but take care of kids?

What did you talk about before you married?

What are his current hobbies or passions other than recovering the marriage?

You can't find anything in that wealth of information to initiate an enjoyable, intimate conversation?


This is hands down the hardest thing for us to do. We don't do anything except take care of the kids so we don't have anything to talk about except the kids. We do go out on fri and sat nites but sit there with nothing to talk about. [/quote]

And yes, wives say and feel exactly that way when they are not in love!

She should be honest about how she feels, and she should not be judged by her husband or by posters here for expressing it. This is the problem and it should be on the front burner. Chastising her about it will make her feel like being dishonest about it, and then they will not focus on solving this problem.

They both are scheduled to talk to Dr. Harley on 7-16-13.

On the weeks when it was 15+, did he experience enthusiastic SF? Did she post that she looked forward to SF on those weeks?

I don't recall seeing those posts.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't strive for the 15+ hours. What I'm asking is what is the evidence for FTF to confirm that 15+ hours of UA results in enthusiastic SF?

Because if it's not happening, what is his motivation to continue trying to fill a bucket she says in her own words cannot be filled?

Not judging her. Just letting her know that it's nearly impossible to keep trying to meet needs when there is no glimmer of hope.

If she feels judged, I can't help that.

If anyone should feel judged, it's her husband. By her own words, she has in effect said, "He will never be good enough for me to want in a sexual fashion."

Her own words and attitudes, while honest, I credit her for that, may also be one of the things destroying any chance to save the marriage.

If she really believes, feels or thinks that she'll never want him, then what is the point of him trying. She has said in word and in deed that he's not good enough.

I agree about the not judging, but let's be clear who is passing judgment on whom.

It will take more than a spattering of weeks here and there that have more than 15 hours of UA. It must be consistently met, week after week.

On the contrary, she is letting her husband know there is a problem. Which she should do. They need to work together to find the solution to this problem.

The solution is quite simple: consistent, enjoyable UA meeting the four intimate EN.

HE can change her feelings.

Agreed.

It will also take a wife who decides that her husband is a worth while catch and someone for whom she can see a future of enthusiastic meeting of his legitimate needs for SF.

I'm not saying she shouldn't feel what she's feeling. What I'm saying is what actions is she taking to address her side of the street.

What I've seen is things like above. Conversation is boring, we don't have anything to talk about other than kids. I don't see where she's studied him to try to make interesting conversation.

What I have read is that she doesn't really like date night because she dreads SF.

Could it be that he's not willing to go for more UA time because it's miserable for him too.

This thing that is supposed to be a pillar of his marriage and result in having his need for SF is miserable because she's "just there" dreading the end of the night when she knows the SF is coming?

Yeah, they need more UA. But if she is going to loathe and dread the UA, and complain about it, how are things going to change.

She may have to show him what makes for UA that she looks forward to. She may have to take the wheel and plan activities that she likes and that are more likely to lead to the SF he's legitimately desiring.

If he's so bad at UA and IC, then let her take the lead and provide examples of how to trip her trigger, so to speak, when it comes to meeting those needs.

No better way than for her to plan some dates, initiate some conversations, and provide the example for him to follow.

She's looking for him to do it, but loathes the experience.

So let's see how she does at planning the UA for a month?

Most of that sounds like very good suggestions, EE, but it seems to be coming from a point of view that she is not working with him to plan dates, she is not spending time with him learning to have conversation, etc.

To me it sounds like, when you say "Could it be that he's not willing to go for more UA time because it's miserable for him too" that it's some sort of "counter" to what she has said. e.g.

Wife: I'm really not feeling enthusiastic about sex.
Husband: Well, UA is miserable for me, too!

See, this kind of thing doesn't enter problem solving mode. It's just blaming. The point is that they need to solve the problem, together. And Tuesday, they are going to get Dr. Harley's help to do that.

"Yeah, they need more UA. But if she is going to loathe and dread the UA, and complain about it, how are things going to change."

First off, complaints are a good thing for a marriage. Maybe you thought they were bad?

I WISH Prisca had complained about our problems as respectfully as feuillecouleur has! It seems to me that several posters are determined to read something negative into her simple statements of the problems she and her husband are facing. If she says "him asking for sex is annoying," that's a simple statement of a problem they need to solve together. They need to find a way to change things so that this isn't annoying any more, so that FightTheFight can get the SF he needs!

I just now saw this, and it sounds like a problem, but maybe I am misreading. He has STOPPED doing things that you felt made love bank deposits, because he thinks they aren't working, and aren't really making deposits? Is that right?

Grab ahold of the "Steve" radio show that I hope I've linked to FTF before, and listen to what Dr. Harley says about the change in a wife's emotions. It's not gradual, as deposits are made. It's the crossing of lines between regions: hatred to dislike; dislike to neutral; neutral to like; like to in love. It's a sudden change in emotions (and behavior) when you cross that line. If the threshold is 1000 love units, 900 units doesn't look much different from 100 love units, and appears to show no progress at all. But the truth is 10 more love units, and suddenly you pass the threshold.

Yes, but you're manifestly wrong.

Stop being her mouthpiece, amigo, (Wait! Isn't the impulse to speak for her a DJ?), and let her respond to my question.

Oh, there it is. "Steve":


And a bonus:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=68

Steve's wife was not making active efforts to spend time with her husband, as you are, so your situation should be easier than theirs.

It is definitely not a DJ to explain how Dr. Harley says that, even though a woman may feel at the moment like she does not want sex, her feelings can be changed.

STOP!! NOW!!!!

There will be NO further arguing & bickering on this thread. Either SUPPORT this member using Dr Harley's concepts & principles, or DON'T POST!!

I am not convinced she is working with him. She has the complaint part down pat. What about the problem solving portion of the program? For 5 or so months she has been asked what FTF did that convinced her to marry and what the OM did with little concrete in response.

So I add to the list of questions what does his successful meeting of her needs look like?

That's all I am asking. What would it look like if he was meeting her needs? Paint a word picture that even an engineer could understand

This is a question for them to answer together. Dr. Harley compares the UA time to a blank canvass. It is up to the couple to determine TOGETHER what they should paint on it.

I suspect FTF would find this helpful, and she would get her needs met and fall (back) into love with her husband.

Whatever she has said or done has not sent the message in such a fashion that he understands how to meet her needs in a fashion where she cannot help but to love him romantically.

What does she have to lose by spelling it out to him in such a fashion, possibility providing concrete examples of when he has met the standard, or examples of how others have done so.

And we see the results of what he knows how to paint. The question is, is she willing to teach him to paint in a manner that will resonate with her?
***EDIT***

Yes, she needs to give him all the honest feedback she can, and try to explain to the best of her ability what he can do better, what he needs to stop doing, what he needs to start doing, etc.