Buy her a New updated phone and have the cell phone spyware already installed. Sweetest Day is coming up shortly if you need an excuse for the gift, but you might want to speak with her about it first just so she agrees and allows the phone number to be transferred to the new one.

LTL

I will reiterate what Mel said.

Do not try to reason with her. Simply state your intentions and then let it drop. Don't try to convince her a separation could not work. Simply state that isn't what you want. You want the family to stay together and have a loving R with her.

The fact that she called you to pick a fight and is AO'ing is not a good sign. Sounds like she's desperate to be rid of you ... nearly 100% of the time that is because there is an A. People that are withdrawn and have a spouse who is trying to provide love and care normally don't become unreasonable. Instead they try to use reason to explain their feelings. Continue to remain cool as a cucumber during her AOs.

Head over to Operation Investigation and ask questions about the phone situation. Someone may have a good idea for you over there.

I see LTL chimed in with a good idea!

DM, if she has an iPhone, you should be able to get everything on it by hooking up to her computer and doing a backup. Read this: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...flat&Number=2758380&#Post2758380

Melody,

I just updated that iPhone thread because i looked at the site and discovered thst the Wondershare Dr. Phone also has a data recovery for Android OS cell phones for $49.95

LTL

Thanks!

Thanks Melody Lane,

You are right about not fighting with my W. I actually had to head home before getting your message. I stopped and picked up her favorite coffee on the way home and gave it to her as a peace offering. We didn't speak on anything relationship wise at all last night and had a productive evening. (Doing things for the kids and dinner with no dust up what-so-ever. Later in the night she woke me up to walk the dog since I fell asleep on the couch. After coming back in she calmly grabbed a pillow and blanket from the bedroom and proceeded to the living room. So the night situation didn't change with me sleeping in our master bedroom and her sleeping somewhere else.

My oldest daughter is away at school during the week (M-F) so I woke up this morning to find her there and her phone (LG Venice) and iPad are likely with her since they are not around. I think her sleeping change from the couch has more to do with a bad night's sleep than this being a permanent solution but I suppose some time will tell...

I'm going to try Wondershare even though her specific phone isn't listed for support. I figure if it works it would be well worth the money and I have to try to get into the old phone to get the true history. (I've been away for a long time so I need to know how long this has been going on.)

I am also going to upgrade to new phones which will allow me to add the Spyware upfront before she gets it.

Everyone's just waking up now so I'll report back in on the morning a bit later. Thanks all because you guys are helping me to feel informed, empowered, and above all not alone...

Good luck today.

Stay positive!

Good Morning MrAlias, MelodyLane, All,

Thanks for the well wishes.

I've downloaded the Wondershare software and will work on an opportune time to access her phone. I hope that it works and I can get answers soon. From my snooping from other accounts I can access it does not come across as an EA openly. I still need to know for sure and expose it if it exists so I will continue to search for it. I am finding that several of her girlfriends and even her sister have all ended long relationships with what they deem as "the wrong man".

Their extreme negativity and even some of their exact comments and traits she is now identifying with and rewriting our history. Her older sister in particular is now actively dating many men and going out all the time and I can see that she may be envying this from her comments. Being a stay-at-home mother she feels her life is limited and see's others as "living it up". I am now working on subtle ways to bring interest back to our R to find fun activities for us to do. I've had difficulty navigating this due to financial reasons in the past which I am working through now. I am working on ideas that are not overly romantic only because she is withdrawn and reaffirms her feelings not loving me if too over-the-top. If members have low cost suggestions in this regard it would be appreciated...

So far the past few days have been going better but I am cautious to looking into things too much. On Friday I worked for only a few hours then came home early to surprise my W. She had been busy throughout the morning so I gave her a much needed break for us to go out to pick up stuff for the kids and to grab lunch. Spent most of our time together planning, shopping, and just having light-hearted fun. Her attitude was remarkably different. The night still ended with her sleeping in another bedroom but I know these things will take time. On Saturday we took a trip for our daughter's game and had a great time again spending the day having fun with no LB's and trying to make as many deposits as I can. On Sunday we went to church as a family and had a great time. We spent the entire day together again following the pattern of great days but her spending the night in another room. Monday was the same also. Since I've been really building a strong connection with our church's pastor I asked my wife if she would have any objection if I discussed our R with him. I asked her to think about it and get back to me so I didn't put her on the spot. (We both enjoy church so I didn't want her to feel uncomfortable with me approaching our pastor personally about our problems.) She asked me if it was for marriage counseling which I stated that with the profound changes in my life I wanted also spiritual direction and support. He had a great discussion on Sunday about repairing damaged relationships and it'd be great if we could start counseling in some capacity but avoided suggesting it for now since my W has not mentioned if she'd agree to it since our last talk. (Wanted to avoid it being viewed as "pushing my agenda".)

Yesterday we spent the entire day together cleaning, shopping, and running errands and also catching a movie. I arranged a hotel for my wife last night to give her a chance to get away from the kids. (One of her long standing critiques of me is that I see how overwhelmed she gets and never try to help her get a chance to recharge or support her getting away. I actually do support it but always wanted us to try to do things together since we've lost so much UA through the years with stress and sacrificing for the kids. Never looked at it as ignoring her EN for my own till MB.) So promptly after I helped the kids with their homework and we had a great dinner which I prepared I encouraged her to grab her clothes and get away. While she was gone I addressed the house cleaning and doing chores so she would return to have a stress free day today. This morning when she returned she was very happy to find such a pleasant surprise. I mentioned that I tried to see it for her standpoint and wanted for her to have reasons and joy in returning home. She was so happy that she didn't have to deal with the kids or our "normal morning routine" that she brought me coffe and gave me a genuine hug. (I'm sure I initiated however she did reciprocate which felt nice)

I am now working on addressing our bedroom. It has become a catch-all and not an oasis or romantic getaway as it should be. Inviting my W back to our bedroom should be just that... inviting.

Overall I am really working on cleaning my side of the street and a much stronger Plan A that hits any LB even if I haven't created it. I want her to feel appreciated and the chance to be a woman and not just a mother. She has stated that there is no aspect of her life that she finds enjoyment so she feels she needs to change everything. She feels eliminating our R will be the start to getting her life back. I am hoping with more UA, avoiding LB's, and addressing her biggest complaints or stressors outside of me (with a stronger Plan A) her feelings will begin to soften some.

At the very bottom of the main forum page, there is a section of archived posts, you should see one there "175 romantic ideas" There's some good ones there that are cheap.

What life? The life of marriage and children that she chose?

Careful with this one. Getting her a hotel and encouraging her to "get away" by herself while maybe made a few LB deposits also sets a precedent for IB.

You have to try to help her relax from her stresses without it being a need to escape the M or the family.

When a wife pulls away it signals an affair most of the time.

So what do you do?

You go get her a hotel room for the night. idon't know what to do or

This is not making love deposits. It is showing your wife that she can pull away from you and get treated to nights out alone. Then she can see how great she can get along without you.

Good Morning MrAlias,

Thank you for your point of view. I had not considered that this may be promoting IB or reinforcing the issues that we are having. I have been trying to help her relax which she appreciates. The issue is I am not sure if this is making LB deposits. She views this as if I owe her for what she's been through or in some way what I should do for her as the mother of my kids. I can't understand this fog mentality at all.

Also I've tried the Wondershare software on her phone which is useless because her phone is locked. I have done internet research how to break into her phone however it will factory reset her phone entirely. I am not finding a way to tamper with her phone without losing everything or her not knowing. I really need her unlock code but have no idea how to get it. She is extremely careful with her phone and I'm having the hardest time trying to see it as she inputs it. So frustrated right now...

These days have been more of the same. The days have been great with wonderful conversation and interactions. Once the kids go down for bed she becomes a completely different person. As the night goes on she gets quiet and more annoyed with the time we spend. I think that with the kids sleep it's just me and her and in her withdrawn state she can't help but to slowly get angry. It isn't that I'm causing any lovebusters at all. It feels like she is reminded that we are not in the same place, me loving my W and her how she is. Last night I gave her an extended back rub on the couch and we watched TV together pleasantly engaged. As we both dosed off she woke up before me and then got annoyed feeling that when I get tired I should go to our bedroom. She feels I'm being inconsiderate because she can't just fall asleep comfortably on the couch.

I do believe that I am guilty of enjoying our time together and trying to spend as much time as possible with her which might be trying to meet my need even though Plan A should be only about her now. This is such a hard time... Why does she feel I should be ok with all of this? When our kids wake up early on school days they find her in one place and me in another. Why is this acceptable for her yet I can't approach her with the conversation... I cannot lie that my taker has crept in a little. I sometimes wonder if I should switch to a Plan B but all the advice states that this won't work for my W. I feel lost at times...

Thanks for your comments TheRoad,

Both you and MrAlias have the same opinion so I do feel that this was now a mistake getting a hotel for her. She is stating that this is what she needs emotionally. So I imagine the game plan is to meet only the EN that support our M and nothing more. Plan A, Plan A, Plan A. I do feel I have to work on my patience since I've only been back 3 weeks.

I have seen several signs of her warmth towards me during the daytime. As I transition to my new US assignments for work I've been working only 2 days a week. During my off time we've been spending a lot of time together but not all of it is deemed UA I suppose. She always has her phone and texts often so it is difficult to know if it is her girlfriends or OM if this likely affair is present. Now she has been asking me to spend more time with her so she is not alone (daytime) and that we do a lot of things together. It is such a mixed message when she draws me close during the daytime then pushes me away at night. I do wonder if there is OM that might be available only at night. My presence during the evening/night I wouldn't think should annoy her when our days go so well. (She genuinely enjoys our time early so I'll try to make our nights more enjoyable as best as I can.) I do feel all my efforts are futile with an affair that may be ongoing in any capacity but have been running out of options to finding it.

I am left with hoping that she slips up somehow with her phone which alone is not encouraging...

Dear All,

Sorry for the multiple posts; how do I get my W interested in reconciliation? She appears dead set against it with no interest or effort towards us or our R? Is this even possible if I cannot detect a likely affair???

Good Afternoon All,

I've revisited the guidelines for UA- Affection, Sexual Fulfillment, Recreational Companionship, and Conversation. From this list to build back intimacy we only share RC and C. My W demonstrates no A towards me and rejects when I try to provide it most of the time. In terms of SF we have not shared this aspect of our marital life since August 2011 with be being away and she has no interest in it now that I'm back the past 3 weeks. I figure I will try to outline all of the issues to get the best help possible. I understand that being withdrawn and not in love she would not have motivation for SF or A, but is RC and C enought to get things moving in the right direction?

Just want to make sure that I am actually implementing a meaningful Plan A...

DM,

In implementing a meaningful Plan A you are governed by what your partner will allow in meeting needs. Obviously SF and even some forms of Affection aren't going to be received well.

However, keep in mind that you can be affectionate in non-physical ways. Admiration can even be considered affectionate if you phrase it properly. It's hard to know how she'll receive these but you will be instituting a good behavior if you try regardless.

In the meantime I encourage you to invite your W to sleep in your bed. You can let her know, in words, that it is safe for her to sleep in her own bed. Let her know you understand she isn�t interested in having SF or any form of physical touch and you won�t push for it as long as she isn�t interested.

I wish we could rule out an affair. It�s hard to give direction not knowing. There is no doubt that whomever she is chatting to on that phone ISN�T a friend of the M. It�s either an EA POSOM or a girlfriend who is supporting her in her decision to end her M.

You should definitely start with those two, and you should also look into showing affection yourself. Try to get your wife to spend time alone with you in recreation and conversation 15+ hours a week, and try to engage her in conversation and be affectionate to her the rest of the time, as well. Dr. Harley has a list of affectionate acts in his article on affection under Q&A columns - take a look at those and try them out.

Good Morning All, MrAlias, markos,

Thanks again for your help and advice. I've been working on things most of this extended weekend for my side of the street. I still have not been closer to ruling out a potential affair. I've been investigating on her phone and have been trying partial passwords that I can oversee with no luck yet. I have found a way to make sure that my attempts don't register so the investigation is ongoing. I have also set my iPod on mic while out the house and have invested in a VAR for the car. I figure I have to do something even though I suspect this any affair is entirely through text messaging.

The weekend went fairly well. Friday and Saturday resulted in talks that eventually turned into relationship talks. I know that I am guilty because I reacted to her anger and asked questions for more insight. It was not a complete loss since I did learn that most of her behavior and attitude are defensive habits. She is still prepared to deal with the man I was so I am working on the way I say things to avoid triggering her. During our discussion she did agree to counseling but it was very reluctantly. She also specifically said she did not want me to speak with my pastor which I'm bothered by. I tried to explore this but was met with anger so I dropped the topic for the time being. She also stated that she has not told anyone of our problems or her attempts to end our M. So whoever she is talking to it's not her immediate family. I notice that any of her friends that are strong supporters of us or M in general she has started to distance herself from. Now I know that if I can find evidence of an affair I should expose to everyone, but would it be recommended to expose what's going on right now?

I ask because we just came back from a trip visiting with her family. During this and anytime we are around others she engages me as her husband, is warm, and very inviting. From the outside it appears there are no problems at all minus signs of outward affection which she never was that type of person. But slowly as we return on the drive to our home she tries to revert back. Last night was yet another night for her on the couch. This morning she was ok but distant. She has said to me that she can coexist with me. This was mainly in reference to her idea that she feels I have her boxed into a corner. She feels she is left to decide between two difficult positions, conforming to me and what I want in working on our marriage or leaving with the kids to her parents in another state. Both of which right now she feels she is not prepared to do. She does not want to leave with the kids because she realizes that it would be extremely difficult on them. I can't help but to feel that her being so dead-set against repairing our R now that I'm different has to do with an OM creating problems. She continues to acknowledge that I'm different all in good ways. She has asked me what my end game is. I explained that right now I'm focused on repairing our R. She feels that if I'm focused on being her friend that we are wasting time and wants to know how long do we do that to be in the same place. She continues to state that she has made up her mind but feels stuck because she hasn't worked in so long she can't establish herself to leave. I told her what I want (a loving R that is better than we had) and want to immediately start doing RC plans together. We need to move past where we are now because the resentment that is already visible would get worse. Spending time with me now could change how she views me and could only help improve how we interact. She told me point blank that if it doesn't involve the kids she has no interest in doing anything with me one-on-one. She seems content in creating this separating in our household now until she is in the position (career/job/financial) to do something about it. She continues to state that I'm trying to force what I want, my agenda, and that I am not listening to what she wants. We are on opposite sides of the rope and pulling and getting no where. She also said that she agreed to speak with a counselor only because a third party would be needed to help establish a reasonable end since we are in different places. She also mentioned that a counselor would likely assign homework and that she is tired and not prepared to put in any effort.

I don't understand how she can prepare to put in work to maintain an outside false appearance to others, inner household turmoil, and a likely affair but can't consider any effort to making our lives better together. My approach is that everyday is a new one, a fresh start. Hers is that she's given me 14 years of her life and how I used them was just that. "It's not her fault if I wasted them and that she does not owe me anything. Sure I've been different the last 3 years but that does not change the 10 years before that. We've been married now for 6 years and I've been away for 3 1/2 of them. It took me leaving for her to realize just how bad things were. That in effect she is like a battered woman having dealt with emotional abuse that changed her towards me. Me leaving forced her to be strong, independent, and demonstrated that she could breathe with me not around. I'm great now but she's not looking for it, she's not looking for anything from me. When she needed me I wasn't there for her."

It's bad enough that I'm fighting the man I was but if there's an OM that I can't root out fueling this it appears that her mind is made up. What to do?

You were oversees for three years. If there is an affair, I can't imagine it didn't turn physical. POSOM would eventually give up if it doesn't. It may be downgraded to EA now that you are back in town. The fact is, if she is having an affair, it makes your sitch easier (in a way). You would at least know how to move forward. The way she acts around you, reminds me of my FWW who similarly started an EA which turned PA by POSOMs pushing while I was working oversees. When we were back in the same house, she was very cold and withdrawn, reluctantly agreed to counseling but LIVED on her phone. BUT the fact that she agreed to stay in the same house (but slept on the couch) meant that she was ready for me to win her back. All I had to do was discover the A, EXPOSE, and set up her EPs. She wanted to be freed from the anxiety of the affair so was ready and willing to do the MB once I showed her I would do anything for our M.



The only "friend' my W confided in was not a friend of the M. After all the dust settled, she admitted this friend actually encouraged my W to sleep with POSOM. The fact that she didn't talk to anyone else means you may have more allies when the time comes. It will make exposure all the more effective.



I could have wrote that too. This just shows that she acknowledges her investment in the M. Once OM is rooted out and destroyed, you will be able to win her over.


Because she's not too far gone. Right now she KNOWS you are the better choice over POSOM. You are the father of her kids and her breadwinner. She just needs POSOM out of her life before she makes an effort. She needs you to do that for her.



Her mind is not made up. If it was, she would be gone. Root out the OM and eliminate him from her life. By the same token, continue what you are doing by meeting the EN she allows. Non-physical affection is an amazingly attractive to women. They pick up on the simplest kindnesses.