If that's the way you feel Road, then why do you continue hanging around Dr. Harley's site?

TR,

If we listen to the Dr H on the radio, he never claims to be perfect, he seems to listen carefully to the circumstances, but is not dogmatic about it, he is more nuanced. People sometimes have an inflexible view of his principles.

God Bless
Gamma

I have heard Dr. Harley say multiple times that he encourages people to write him when they disagree with him.

So how about it TheRoad? Why don't you write Dr. Harley and tell him you think he is wrong on this?

I did contact OM and I believe it was cathartic. I did not ask questions. I told him to begin with, it was just to clear the board. The ahole did ask to say something....he apologized and asked forgiveness, promised to never again contact my wife. He also told me he admired my courage, because he didn't think he would be strong enough to try to restore his marriage were the roles reversed.

The above coupled with what I got off my chest was very helpful, I think.

That's easy to defeat by writing the radio show.

/shrug

LftS, your OM was not a relic of a relationship that ended many, many years previously!

An active affair can be effectively attacked by the BH confronting POSOM (as in my own case). But tracking down/dredging up long-past, LB$-depleted, desiccated OMs makes ZERO sense.

How well does it work in all those "Mummy" movies?

Dr. Harley would agree with you on contacting OM during an active affair.
"I Encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr. Harley

I 3rd it or maybe 4th this (I've lost count).

How easy it is to send off an email?

Gamma,

Reading here my view is that if you contact this OM this many years after the incident then it will make you look bad in every way. This man got with your then girlfriend fully knowing she was yours then tossed her aside when he was done, you chose to marry her and build a life with her knowing about this, yet now you want to go ask questions and effectively telling the already morally corrupt man that your marriage is still struggling x amount if years after the incident?? Why would you give him any importance at all all after all these years??

If you want to get the full details and further information about what your wife did with this man then have her take a polygraph, it will certainly be less humiliating than approaching the OM after all this time.

And who says he remembers anything about it either?? After all he threw her away as soon as he could, not really an ideal candidate to remember details of the encounter now is he?

melodylane jr, Dr H gives up a lot of free time to the people that come here. I think that is great. To me to contact him on this matter would be an imposition. His work load is high enough as it is.

People that were dating in an exclusive relationship. They got cheated on. The pain of their betrayal is real. They did not have to have a marriage certificate to feel the pain from being cheated on.

To say their partner did not have an affair, unfaithful, because they were not married, thus they can not feel the pain from the infidelity is to be in denial.

To be in a non committed relationship were you both are made aware that at least one of the two wants to still play the field then that would not be cheating.

**EDIT**

***EDIT***

Gamma, now I understand your need for the truth.

You do not want to have gaps in the story filled.

You want to stay to your WW that you banged OM 1, Banged OM 2....

So you can say to your WW you had SF with the OM. You can have SF. Then you can have SF with me.

That is not the way you are going to get your WW to put out for you.

You and your WW have issues that need professional help. Email Dr Harley.

**EDIT** I question (repeatedly) everything I hear. In fact, I've been given the 2-week MB vacation a few times for it.

But what Gamma is doing makes absolutely no sense to anyone other than him and you apparently.

Where is the sense in taking his wife to see the OM after more than 20 years? And letting them hug, right in front of him? He's practically putting a bow on his wife and giving her as a present to the OM. I'm simply curious as to what he hopes to accomplish by doing that.

It seems to me that Gamma isn't remotely interested in having a good marriage. No Contact with former lovers is something that Dr. Harley has never wavered on to my knowledge.

Writer1

Carefully reread this post. Sorry if my meaning was not clear. I support every BH's need to get every question answered by his WW.

I am calling Gamma out because he is not looking to get the truth to know the whole story. He wants his WW to say she did this with OM1, that with OM2, done that with OM3, been there with OM4, and got the stains on her T shirt with OM5.

With the sole purpose to tell his WW you did all that with them now time to do all that with me, so WW go put on a fresh T shirt now.

That is not how to get his WW to give him SF. He needs to email Dr Harley.

I agree.

How about it Gamma? Will you email Dr. Harley? Are you interested in having a good marriage?

Well, what a wonderfully vile and disrespectful thing to say. It sure makes whatever point you are attempting to support seem all that more important.


So, let's examine the ingredients of **EDIT** so to speak.



First and foremost; the Love Bank. Certainly sounds like sugary, powdery goodness, right? Yet, this is just a simplified analogy for a concept that Dr. Harley is not alone in observing - that love is simply a collection of positive memory associations with a particular person.

Then, you can look at the policy of Undivided Attention, explained in the article "Together when you are the happiest." Again, this isn't something Dr. Harley magically produced from his rectum after a high-fiber day. No, there is a pyschological term for this called the Misatribution of Arousal.

Lastly, we can look at what is pertinent to this thread; trauma, memory, and recall - and how those things effect the previous two points.

You know what people who have suffered a trauma are driven nuts by? People constantly bringing it up to them, even when done so in a caring manner. "I'm so sorry for your loss" has an expiration date - it goes from comfort to "Thanks for reminding me, jerk!" Even events stored in long-term memory need refreshers to remain strong and vivid memories; use-it-or-lose-it. They require context, and they can even be changed by the context of the moment they are recalled, and the context of the current moment can also effect what is recalled. Certain strong contexts (sights, sounds, smells, emotions) can "trigger" recall of associated memories. Recall of associated memories can "trigger" an emotion.

Right? Ok.

So, in the event of infidelity, there are obviously some strong contextual associations, and a strong response to memories being triggered. In essence, a betrayed spouse recalling infidelity is keeping themself in a perpetual state of trauma. And, by willfully continuing recall, they are keeping that memory and the associations strong and fresh. And those memories and associated contextual emotions further trigger other memories contextually associated with the triggered emotion.

In effect, by constantly ruminating about details of an affair, a betrayed spouse is willfully keeping themselves out of love with their spouse.

That's fine. That's your choice. But, for the love of Pete... get a divorce then. If you have no intention of having a loving, romantic marriage with the person that betrayed you, cut freaking bait. Why the hell would you want to enact such an exercise in self-torture? It's not noble, nor admirable. It's not "good for the kids." It's stupid, and foolish, and cruel.

"Getting all the details" sounds like a fantastic justification, but... we aren't really interested in the details. The investigation into details is a self-soothing practice, looking for the cracks in whatever wonder drew our spouse away from us. Trying to understand "why?" It's as useless an exercise as attempting to make a wayward "get it."

The only supportable reason for anything even near this is if the infidelity had just been discovered. And even then, exposure would likely be suggested, but this was resuming contact. This was getting a Vietnam Vet to tell you about the time his buddy's guts got blown out next to him.

"BS getting all the details" is never going to be the advice this late in the game.

So, none of that is based on blind, unquestioning faith and following, so go drink your own damned Kool Aid.

HHH:

I'm sorry, but this is sick. You need help.

TR,

Gamma, now I understand your need for the truth. You do not want to have gaps in the story filled.

Yes I very much do, because so many aspects of a relationship die in an affair, there are also may aspects to recovery. There are multiple goals here, and multiple unknown consequences.

I'm fairly sure WW did NOT bang OM1 btw, there was also a more shadowy co-worker of OM2 and myself that my W became attracted to around the time of OM2, I don't mention this often since it muddies the discussion.

You want to stay to your WW that you banged OM 1, Banged OM 2....So you can say to your WW you had SF with the OM. You can have SF. Then you can have SF with me. That is not the way you are going to get your WW to put out for you.

I've never coerced or guilted my WW into SF ever, I believe no mean no. I would hope that her coming clean makes our relationship more intimate, but I have no illusions that it definitely will.

God Bless
Gamma

Discontinue the debate over personal agreement with MB, and get back to advising this poster consistent with MB principles.