The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair

Tell us what you think.

This is the best advice you can get. He emotionally left you because there were things in your marriage he was unhappy about between you. By correcting your shortcomings and showing him that you want a totally different M too, he has much more motivation to think about recovery.

So what if you two got close yesterday. The good thing is that you two are hanging out. Right now you both need to start finding ways to feel good around each other.

I really believe that if you give this a couple of weeks with no expectations a lot is going to play out. Just see what he does and then evaluate. I know how this consumes you. It did me too. It's tough to just switch it off. Looking back, I see how I overanalyzed every interaction, conversation..everything. I know now that where we ended up today was a result of hundreds of interactions, not just 1 or 2. Try to keep this in mind.

If he wants to discuss maybe working things out, then you can warm him up to MB and let him know that you think you have found something that you think can help you both really turn your M around and be in love and happy.

It sounds like if he is in contact with her, it probably just phone or text. right? She is miles away? Nothing you can do about that right now unless you want to call his bluff and hit him with an ultimatum. If it were me, I would wait about 2 weeks before you do this.

Creating new, better memories with him right now is what you have to do. -With no expectations.

hang in there. you are doing great.

The only way there is no hope is if you both throw in the towel. MB is all about change. All you have to do is NOT do these things! That's all.

have you read about the Love Bank?

Read about and then read your list of LB's again. Would you be in love with you? Don't mean to be harsh but if you did those things to him daily..weekly...monthly...well, those all have Massive LB withdraws from you LB in his account. Wouldn't you say?

These are the things that you can't ever do again. Never. Not one more time.

Put them on your mirror so you can think about them every day.

Sounds like you did that perfectly. Good job!!



Absolutely. Again, great job and keep it up!


Your conversation topics are extremely limited during Plan A. Avoid EVERY subject that could cause you emotion or to love bust.

BH, I will listen to all those Radio segments later, today I will be out with my sisters. I know exposing to DS5 will create more hostility towards me, but if all of you recommend it, I will. Thank you for everything.

20YH, you have gave me so much peace in your reply. I know my shortcomings drove him away to OW for attention. I will work hard at correcting myself and my interactions with him.
So should I allow sex to happen? Won't he think I'm a doormat, letting him take what he wants?
I am trying to make good memories, and he reciprocates in person. Ones he leaves he becomes hostile anytime we communicate. He says I am acting like nothing happened, in reality i am very hurt and wish I could hate him and he would disappear lol.
Yes, I over analyze everything in life, including us. I will be on my best behavior to not commit any LB's, should I offer what I did not before? Or wait for him?
Idk 100% if he is, but i told him if he continued to talk to her i would not update him on our sons daily activities. He said he's not and ill take his word. I can't do much about it.
Just be happy with no expectations. I'll try.

How can I talk to him about OW and not cause us to argue. He said it happened twice, she was in Houston, then left. All other contact was phone or text. He said it meant nothing and I could check on him all I want. I don't know what more to get from this, he said no more contact. In the past when he has talked to OW and I found out, he would immediately quit his job and NC.

First, you should never 'give him what he wants' unless you are good with it too. Neither one of you should. This is why the POJA is so important. I think it is the most important thing that you and he are going to have to figure out how to do if this is going to work.

Seriously. This and the PORH will completely change your M. Eliminate your LB, use the 2 policies with every aspect of your M and you won't believe how happy you both will be. These take a lot of time and practice to master. I know we haven't but we are most of the way there. It has changed everything. Negotiating where you are both happy with all your decisions is what I think Dr. Harley's program has taught us which has helped us the most.

If you want to have a great M, study these policies like you are taking your masters degree courses.

Another thing that I had to learn was the 24 hr rule. Know what that is? ..don't make any major decisions or say anything that you question whether you should say it or not for 24hrs. Once I learned this, it saved me a lot of short term regrets. Try it.

FMT, I realized now that almost everything is touchy. He relates it all back to something negative. So I'm lost on that lol.

20YH, you have so much more hope than I do. How can I apply the policies if he does not even want to hear anything about recovery? I don't know if I mind the sex, I'll think about it. Im waiting on LB book and SAA, then I will study them like crazy! Thank you.

I would respond: "I am exploring legal recourse against OW and the evidence will be presented in divorce court when she is required to testify about the adultery"

It seems like Plan B but it really isn't.
He is in marital withdrawal. He is in love with another woman.
That is different than plan B and here's why; His thoughts seem rational to him but his actions are irrational by most peoples standards.
Plan B is a RATIONAL set of actions. It was developed by a world marriage expert.

I see that you lived together before marriage and it's possible that you had a "renter" relationship carried into marriage. That is, he never "bought" into your marriage. That's why he continued opposite sex friendships and affairs.

While you are in plan A you should be preparing for plan B.
You NEED to read Surviving an Affair and find an Intermediary.
In Plan B you will have NO contact with him.
You will need an intermediary for delivering messages, kid pick up/ drop offs etc.

You should also contact the welfare department and tell them that your husband abandoned you and your child so you can get food stamps, insurance etc.

Tonight was a bad night, first day and night without DS5. Truly felt alone, even though I went out all day. I bawled for hours over everything. Realized i still hate him even though I thought I was getting over it. How long will I be on this emotional roller coaster?

For a while.
Dr Harley encourages all betrayed spouses to visit their family physician and explain that they are being cheated on and ask to be prescribed anti depressants

Dr Harley says the medication will help you feel better and function and make rational choices during this terrible time

Unfortunately, this is just the beginning of your roller coaster ride. You are realistically looking at 2-5 years. We are going on 2 years in R and still experience it.

SAA will outline the stages that you most likely go through over the next few years. You have to try to relax. I wouldn't even think about Plan B right now. It is too soon. Go back and read the good advice you have been getting to remind yourself of these things.

No desperation. No neediness. Just let him know that you still love him and want to work this out.

SAA will help you gain perspective and awareness of the typical process of those who experience A. Take it a day at time. Trying to predict the future (even today) will eat you alive. Just focus on YOU right now.

It sounds like he has had a very unhappy life with a lot of abuse. Clearly, what he did to you is 100% on him and his choice but it also sounds like you were committing tons of LB's that were very painful to him which was just an extension of his childhood. Can you see that?

Reflecting on yourself and never doing these things again to him will give you the best chance for him to want you. No LB's. Just kindness. ok?

Have you been listening to the MB radio program? there is a smart phone app.

Please listen as much as you can. It will really help you.

This is excellent advice. Dr. Harley is an advocate of AD's for people in your situation. Can you get in to your Dr this week? He has had a lot of success with Welbutrin. As it works well with minimal side effects.

JK, thank you for your advice, since then I have been to where he is staying at, we have spoken, cleared up many things, but he has also expressed he still feels pressured. I am backing off anything R,A, or D related.
And the renter situation, I just found the thread yesterday, and it is very true for both of us. I also did not go into the marriage 100%, always wanting something better, not realizing WE could have made it better.

20YH, I will continue Plan A and update as we go. I did let him know yesterday how I felt, reminded him that although he is hurting, I am also hurting in the absolute most painful way. I told him I am not acting like nothing happened, I am just not wanting to cry and hurt all the time. I reminded him where I stand, and that I would not speak about us anymore. He did not reply, but when I picked up DS5, he was trying to speak to me on friendly terms.
I hope to get SAA soon and learn it by heart...
I completely agree with the abuse, and I told him that also last week.
When I think about our relationship, I realize he went from one abusive home to becoming a father, H, and man overnight, literally. I brought my own depression to our relationship, and we could not have possibly known at 17y/o how to be happy.
I will continue no LB's, and doing things out of kindness, no expectations.
I will try and listen to MB radio, just got the app.
I will look into the AD's.
Thank you so much!

20YH, I messed up. I received and email about our phone account. He changed his username to Aishetoruinu, which is i love you bit** in Japanese. He also removed her from the block list. OW is japanese. I immediately felt sick and threw up. I texted him to please not talk to her ever again, he said he was not, i told him about the email he said its just a name. Now i am sure he is lying. My heart feels worse than before. I told him i would never talk to him again if he did communicate with her. He said that he is not, i needed to calm down, and that he was getting annoyed of me repeating the samething because he is not communicating with her.
I feel so hopeless.
I said you are right i am probably annoying you, sorry for bringing it up. Have a good day at work. And no reply.
Does this change anything? Or am I supposed to continue trying to make love deposits and ignore this huge fact. Which I fear i can't. It felt like DDay all over again.

BIG Red flag to me! To me, that is a total slap in the face that the affair is absolutely continuing. Couldn't be more or better evidence. He's gaslighting.

I agree STx2, it was a huge hit for me.