Have you seen this?
Using Resentment as Punishment

Gamma: �And in some ways honesty is the ultimate just compensation isn't it?�

This is the crux of the matter. The missing EN is RH, not OS. You have an EN for RH. Unfulfilled OS is mere insult added to injury. Salt in the wound. Lack of OS is misdirected resentment.

You are not getting your current top EN for RH met. You cannot even get an honest answer as to why your adulteress will not meet your EN for RH.

Gamma, I feel your frustration. Or, I should say, I used to. I don�t actually care anymore. I have no ENs any adulteress could ever meet. Perhaps I should say the only EN I have is for a wife who never committed adultery. Perhaps that is also your fundamental need.

My wife�s VLTA lasted 10 years. She did many, many unique things with dirt bag love of her life she would not and will not do with me. Sexual and otherwise, including spending a ton of $ on him. Getting answers to my questions would take as long as the adultery lasted. I don�t have the patience. What to do? Write it off and suppress the frustration? D?

MB methods ended the VLTA quite handily, but they have not helped me internally. I find it interesting that when I say this people here say I am not getting something I need. But when you say basically the same thing it�s your entire fault. The contradictions are obvious. ***EDIT***

According to Dr. H what you are going through is, all by itself, is grounds for Plan B then D.

Anyway, call Dr H. Tell him you are no longer happily married. See what he says.

Actually, I've never seen anyone say this. I've seen many instances where posters have acknowledged that not all marriages can be saved. Dr. Harley has made it very clear that he does not believe in marriage at all costs. Divorce is not the ultimate in failure on MB. Often, personal recovery is the definition of success.

What posters here, and Dr. Harley himself, do all seem to agree on is that it makes no sense to stay in a marriage if you have no intentions of recovering it. Where is the point in staying married and miserable, not meeting each other's EN's, not spending any UA time together, and basically just putting up with each other for the rest of your lives?

That seems to be what you've decided to do Aphelion, and to a lesser degree, it seems to be what Gamma is doing as well.

From the looks of things, I would have to say it doesn't seem to be working out too well for either one of you.

Actually, I see it a lot. And I mean no disrespect. It�s just a fact.

I have a hard time getting across that I don�t need to be romantically involved with anyone, especially not an adulteress, former or otherwise, to be happy and content. I have made a very good life for myself (and still no adultery on my part - weird, huh.)

I had every intention of recovering. At first. And for a long time. And we both did it by the MB book. But, eventually I realized I was simply not ever going to get past it. By then FWW begged me not to D her. Must have been residual compassion � I told her I would not. Plus, being a practicing catholic I could not marry again anyway. So it makes no difference remaining legally married.

But it�s all worked out well for me. I am happier than ever I was during the VLTA. Disconnecting has been a very good thing. And, I am safe. Finally.

Did not ask if your BH talks about the affair anymore.

Did not ask if you think about the affair anymore.

I asked can you remember. Example, if your BH was to ask you tomorrow about the affair would he get answers or would he get I don't remembers.

Though I am curious as to what a WW can remember after time goes by. I do not want you to try to remember what you have forgotten.

Or do I want to get you to try to remember.

No way to answer this without actually thinking about it.

Though I can say that, when one goes a long time without thinking about something, it is probably much more difficult to remember details such as places, times, dates, and the specifics of what happened. No, I don't think I would be able to accurately remember all of that after this long.

And my major point is, after all this time being in recovery, it would make no sense for my husband to ask about any of this in the first place. Dredging stuff up like that only sets back recovery. It does more harm to the marriage than good. What would be gained by bringing things up again? Nothing. Luckily, my H realizes this and doesn't do it. Gamma apparently hasn't figured this out yet.

BrokenVase,

He does NOT want to BECAUSE he did it with the OW. Things we do together are in a "box" of things we do; things he did with the OW are in a "box" of things he did with her.

So, can I replace the memories? No. Can I bring up the topic? No. He stated he's not enthusiastic and then I'm "bringing up the past."

I want him to ENJOY doing THIS ONE PARTICULAR THING with me, but he WILL NOT.

Someone told me there was a Korean saying that goes "a woman is a different woman for every man she is with", I've never been able to locate that quote, but I think it would equally apply to men. I often thought about that when I remembered how my W was with OM2. I'm not sure if this will help you create acceptance of the fact that OW got what you did not, I'm not sure anything can.

Did you ever speak with these OW or inform their BHs? Your WH got away with murder and now he wants to clam up? There's also a sense of injustice in that the OW not only stole from you but got away with it.

God Bless
Gamma

I will not push this theme with you any more. I do agree with your BH's actions.

However your BH got all the truth he wanted from you. Gamma claims to not have gotten all of his questions answered. Until a BH gets all of his questions answered he will never rest.

However Gamma's tactic to "get the truth" is a smoke screen to get SF from his WW. He is mistaken and or delusional to think this will work.

I am still waiting for Gamma to wake up and call the Harley's.

You can put people behind the wheel of an auto. Each one will get a different experience by what they bring to the table.

Does not matter. Everyone should just enjoy their own ride.

Alphalion,

Gamma: �And in some ways honesty is the ultimate just compensation isn't it?�

This is the crux of the matter. The missing EN is RH, not OS. You have an EN for RH. Unfulfilled OS is mere insult added to injury. Salt in the wound. Lack of OS is misdirected resentment.

That's correct I could have said I wish W was honest with me about kissing OM2, because from my perspective kissing is as intimate as oral perhaps even more so.

Perhaps I should say the only EN I have is for a wife who never committed adultery. Perhaps that is also your fundamental need.

No just want her to tell me what happened, I had hoped her conscience would wake up and she would confess.

My wife�s VLTA lasted 10 years. She did many, many unique things with dirt bag love of her life she would not and will not do with me. Sexual and otherwise, including spending a ton of $ on him. Getting answers to my questions would take as long as the adultery lasted. I don�t have the patience. What to do? Write it off and suppress the frustration? D?

There is a sense in which a long term affair and a long dead affair are the same, in that both involve lying for a long time, and invalidate years and years of marriage.

Yes it is difficult to decide what to do, if it were a short explosive affair there are perhaps fewer memories to deal with and you may be young enough that the choices are more clear cut.

Did you ever get OM fired or demoted what was the long term consequences for OM? I've read some of your older posts and I would have taken OM2 out if he was like your OM. Did you get DNA tests for your children.

God Bless
Gamma

TR,

However Gamma's tactic to "get the truth" is a smoke screen to get SF from his WW. He is mistaken and or delusional to think this will work.

I think I've said quite a few times that this MIGHT be a side effect, if it reduces my W's feelings of guilt about having sex with OM2!

In fact my W has a very difficult time admitting to anything and the confession might cause her to never have even one sided sex with me ever again. I will still take that chance.

God Bless
Gamma

I think I've said quite a few times that this MIGHT (more SF) be a side effect, if it reduces my W's feelings of guilt about having sex with OM2! In fact my W has a very difficult time admitting to anything and the confession might cause her to never have even one sided sex with me ever again.

Colleagues, it seems Gamma has courageously agreed to perform an experiment on his marital union, for the benefit of our universal bank of knowledge. As I understand the paradigm, to a marginally acceptable union, he added a dose of WW's former romantic feelings, a modicum of exothermic (heat-releasing) shame and regret(?), shook it well, and is waiting for the result. Would that be fair, G? We, at best, believe the product will be endothermic (as in chilling!)

It does call to mind whatever chemist who, inquisitively, was the first to toss a chunk of Cesium into a water-filled beaker. It would be hoped, after the subsequent loud noise, he remained alive long enough to tell his peers: "Don't do that!"

Well, then, G, keep us advised, okay?

I'm curious as to what is bringing all of this up now?

This was 20 years ago.

You knew about the relationship between your then-girlfriend and this OM at the time. You chose to marry her anyway. You've had 20 years together, and now, all of a sudden, you decide to make an issue of this long-ago relationship to the point of actually taking your wife to see the OM.

Why?

Seemed a lot more like rubbing a puppy's nose in the pile in the middle of the living room... 20 years later...

Gamma,

The problem is not the relationship she had with a boyfriend before you got married, the problem is the relationship she has with you today. You can say you're meeting her needs, but it's the Lovebusters that make that not count as deposits. You're quite disrespectful and critical of her, we point out some examples, and you continue to refuse to acknowledge it, shifting the blame again to how she's thinking and feeling differently than she tells you. You will never have an open relationship that way.

You want intimacy and both of you to feel in love with each other? Then drop dwelling on the past, drop your conviction that you know what her real problem is, drop your judgemental attitude towards her, and allow "no" to be an option.
She has honestly told you that she doesn't want to do OS. The negotiations aren't about finding a way to convince her how her no is hypocritical, the negotiation is about how you can both still have a satisfying sexual life without it: without her sacrificing for you.

To restate the most important thing: what's lacking in your relationship is based on you, not on what kind of relationship she had in the past.

Talk to Dr. Harley. Please.

Honesty and Openness #1

Check out this thread (that you posted in). Made me think of your situation: Why would she do it with him but not me?

Gamma,

This is your thread. I do not want to make it about me. But, I will attempt short answers to your questions.

�There is a sense in which a long term affair and a long dead affair are the same, in that both involve lying for a long time, and invalidate years and years of marriage.�

Possibly. 20 years of living a lie might feel similar. But, knowing one�s spouse was deeply in love with her OM for over half one�s marriage is definitely a major pain and resentment amplifier. LTAs and VLTAs generally become more real to the adulterers than their marriages. This is not the issue in your case.

�Yes it is difficult to decide what to do, if it were a short explosive affair there are perhaps fewer memories to deal with and you may be young enough that the choices are more clear cut.�

I agree a ONS, very short adultery or otherwise tripping and falling is fundamentally different than a long adulterous relationship (or serial adulteries no matter how short each is) with months or years of lying, despicable conduct and deceit. I have posed before I do not place adulterers who quickly stop and voluntarily confess and agree to do whatever it takes to reconcile in the same category as the dirt bag adulterers.

�Did you ever get OM fired or demoted what was the long term consequences for OM? I've read some of your older posts and I would have taken OM2 out if he was like your OM.

I did, sort of. This is an action I have been criticized for. Dr H recommends moving to get away from the OP. No, I like it here. I decided he would be the one to move away. He was given the option of early retirement or being fired. I also gave all the gory details to his wife who then divorced him and took their children. Don�t feel bad about that at all, either. She was an OW from his first marriage. I also gave copys to his first wife and their adult children � cutting off a possible local retreat. I used to keep tabs on him but don�t any more. Last I heard he was looking for work in Canada.

Did you get DNA tests for your children?

No. I do not want to know. I love DS just the way he is. Worse, IMO, are the lost children. She secretly went on birth control right after the start of the VLTA. When we were trying for more children. She told me several times during the VLTA how much she wanted more children and said the problem was something wrong with me. Ah, well. I don�t care anymore. She can do whatever she wants now.

As if it isn't hard enough to get people on this site to understand "you can only control yourself," do you have to come around posting things like this?

That made no sense. What are you talking about?