Have you seen this?
Alcohol, Abuse and Infidelity

Once exposure is over, and your marriage is on the road to recovery, I've heard Dr. Harley say that further exposure for the purpose of ministry (or for any other reason) ought to be done through POJA.

If your H doesn't want you to expose his A to anyone else, then you should not do so, even for the purpose of ministry. It's possible to help others by sharing a plan that works without going into all the details of one's own life. The Harley's would be a case in point. They've had a great marriage and still minister and help others in terrible marriages.

This forum is anonymous, so posting doesn't reflect on the WS or BS. It doesn't seem to have hindered our recovery. In many ways, posting has helped, because I've learned so much here.

If you go into Plan B, that might be a good time to expose your H's infidelity as well as his lack of care for you to your close friends and your family, so you can get support and your H can be accountable to people who care about you both.

Heck, I want to know if Ship will ever feel the need to minister to you in the present.

I'm concerned that Ship thinks Marriage Builders is about ministering to other couples. That seems to be based on the belief that you don't need anything to have a happy marriage, so your interest here must be based on this idea of helping other people.

Marriage Builders is about the healthy marriage that everybody needs - that in fact Dr. Harley says women in particular typically suffer horrendously if they are in a marriage that doesn't include these things. (I'll add that it isn't any picnic for men to lack these things, either!)

Don't get the cart before the horse. Build the marriage to be what it always should have been in the first place.

At the moment, he won't even do that. The things I've listed in this thread the last few weeks that need to be done, could be done very easily, if he were truly interested. Instead, he would rather whine that he is "trying" and you should accept it, and whine that he is being punished for the past.

Thanks. I figured I was screwing up. It will take effort to not be transparent in that way.

He has been very careful lately. He has been reading your posts.

He still refuses to post here. He feels there have been many DJs against him.

I told him I truly believe that most people on this forum care about him but they won't allow excuses. I told him that if he would take his guard down and admit his mistakes without excuses, he could get somewhere on this forum.

Not interested.

He said he would do the lovebusters workbook. We now can't find it (of course). Is it just in the back of the LoveBusters book? We have Lovebusters on Kindle. Should we get the workbook?

I guess we will see if he brings it up again.

He also agreed to do the online coaching once the house sold. I NEED the house to sell then. We've had two showings since it went on the market Friday afternoon.

Thank you for caring.

Clarification: Ship said NOT to call the police but maybe I need to be in a mental institution to get help.

I asked him if he saw how cold that was? He said, yes.

He asks me often if he's doing ok at showing me care. I've still blown up at him a couple of times, cursing...all the things I hate to have done to me.

He texts to see if I'm ok, and he checks my heart often when we are together. Affection, patience, empathy.

It feels good, but I'm also on edge wondering if it's only temporary.

I see, so maybe I've just been trying to find a way out by any means necessary?

Setting myself up for an affair, then contemplating suicide?

Ship did say that if I need him to, he would leave to keep me from having those thoughts.

I don't think he thinks that. I'm the one who wants to minister...badly.

It gives me joy. Tremendous joy. My relationship with Ship has been hurtful, and it makes me sad to give up helping someone else by being able to reveal specific details of how recovered.

But let's be honest, it is backwards as you said.

How can I help anyone else if I'm in this state?

I got an antidepressant today, but I won't start the meds until tomorrow because I'm very hung over.

I'm afraid all of this will get swept under the rug again.

The cycle: Blow up, deal and adjust, sweep under rug, go back to old habits, blow up, deal and adjust, sweep under rug, go back to old habits...

Please, dear God. I can't do that.

Ship is reaching out to God. He is willing to consider opening up (I think) to people. I'd prefer he do it on this forum, but it was a definite no.

Are you still recommending Plan B if he's willing to do online coaching when the house sells and go through the Lovebusters book again?

If he doesn't initiate, then I guess I will have my answer.

If he cares that much, all he needs to do is plan dates. It's not rocket science.

Don't discuss Plan B with him, okay?

K.

I'm not discussing anything with him about Plan B. He's been reading your posts.

I guess the bottom line is, Ship just doesn't get it.

He doesn't get how I could be so sad when he doesn't hit me, provides a way for me to stay home in a beautiful house, allows me to buy what I want, go out with friends, doesn't control me...

He really hasn't seen that he has been uncaring.

I think he believes me when I say he's been uncaring, but it's not registering HOW what he is doing is uncaring.

You need to stop drinking altogether. Today. Right now - nothing to do with meds. You have had a baby and are possibly depressed, you are a SAHM with little to look forward to and can drink unobserved. You are in a dangerous situation with drinking - and drinking enough to get "very hungover"? Stop now, please Anointed.

I agree SugarCane. I made a batch of margaritas for Ship and I when the little ones were asleep last night. I guess I'm just a light weight. I do run to drinking when I'm upset, but I've been O&H with Ship when I want to. I don't do it on the sly...even though I've thought about it.

I have to be present with my little ones.

When I say very hungover, I mean kinda lethargic, headache, nauseous this morning. Since the meds say not to take with alcohol, I didn't want to take it if there was any still left in my system.

Thanks for reaching out to me SugarCane.

Ship has been making an effort to ask How I feel about...(HDYF)

His texts have HDYF in them quite often.
He has been patient with me and kind.
He came home and helped me with the kids.
He took care of supper while I worked.
He did laundry and was gracious that I forgot about it.
He listened to MB radio earlier in the day.

So when he decided to head to bed, I mentioned that I was disappointed. This frustrated him.

I asked him about Lovebusters. He said he couldn't find it and to give him time.

He asked if I wanted to discuss the MB radio broadcast. I got frustrated when he was multi-tasking getting ready for bed while we talked. We didn't have any UA time, so I was feeling sad.

I had a gripe session and told him that I felt like he was digging a hole with a spoon (his own way) when he's been given a bull-dozer (step-by-step instructions) which can make the biggest impact.

I felt so unimportant and frustrated to be having the same talk with him, but I also felt sad for him because I know he's trying and wants to be recognized for it.

After our AOs he said that he made some stupid mistakes doing the wrong things tonight, but he won't do that tomorrow.

I felt like one giant screw up.

Your feelings are worth considering and taking into account, but there may be a more respectful way to present them. Maybe something like "I appreciate your help. I would really like to go over Lovebusters, too. How would you feel about you buying another copy since we can't find the one we have?" Let him know that you feel that Lovebusters are an important problem to you without any disrespect. At that point, the ball's in his court. Do you have a plan if he doesnt return the ball?

I do not get the impression he is enthusiastic about ministering to others and having your story out there.

Exposure is one thing, and that is not subject to the POJA. But telling your story to strangers, or those not in a position to end an active affair is a legitimate matter for POJA.

I do not believe you are helping recovery if you insist on something for which he holds little enthusiasm.

Anointed, UA time has got to be scheduled weekly, or it will be put aside.

You need to quit trying to persuade him to follow the instructions he has been given. Remember, you cannot take responsibility for his decisions. That is up to him. It is too hard on you to keep trying to tell him, over and over.

You need to separate from him until he is ready to do these things all the time, for the rest of your married life, without prompting from you. This is for your protection. And you need to have a plan in place for you to separate from him at any time in the future, for your protection. He has proved that he will sit back and relax and leave the important things undone whenever he gets a chance. So you will probably ALWAYS need to be ready to separate at a moment's notice, at least for years.

You are not going to be able to keep holding on, working on keeping yourself respectful in the face of neglect. That is not what Dr. Harley advises.

Quit debating it with him, and start preparing for a separation.