Non sequitur - I said nothing that leads to the conclusion that this way prompts the wife to sharing intimacy with others.

The thing Marriage Builders helps with is this: when your wife is in love with you, the sex becomes WAY better. (And more frequent, more enthusiastic, etc.)

Dr. Harley has men who have been following this program, whose wives have suddenly fallen in love with them, calling them up and asking "What's going on? Do you think my wife is taking hormones?" The change is dramatic.

The science is here to show you how to get your wife to fall in love with you. Call Dr. Harley and get help. You deserve it.

The philosophy being debated here, to wit:

The Humiliation and Blackmail
Will Be Continued Until
FWW's Affection For Gamma
Authorizes Oral Sex!

brings to mind nothing so much as:



the only difference being that the second was intended as irony!

You have quite the imagination. What is the way that prompts the wife to sharing intimacy with others?

Here is IMHO the real question:

Gamma, do you want radical honesty from your wife, meaning she answers ALL your questions to your satisfaction, including WHY she engaged in OS with OM, (even if this does not lead to her having OS with you) OR

do you just want your wife to WILLINGLY engage in OS with you, even if you NEVER get radical honesty?

BV

bv, you are amaking a BIG mistake comapring Gamma's situation to yours.

You have recently found out about affairs that took place in your marriage. Gamma already knew that his girlfriend had been unfaithful to him when he married her. Marrying her wiped the chart clean. This was not an affair, nor an infidelity that he only recently found out about that, had he known about it at the time he was due to get married, he would not have married her. He knew and married her anyway. The debt and the need for compensation was paid off by the marriage.

It appears that even Gamma accepted this until a few years ago, when for some reason, his coming to Marriage Builders gave him the idea that the debt had never been resolved and he had been the victim of an affair (he wasn't) about which he had the right to find out intimate details. He can push for these if he wants, but do so, as well as arranging a meeting in between this man and his own wife, during which they hugged and revived their memories for weeks and months to come, is not the way to have the marriage he wants.

Your case is entirely different, and the proper place to talk about it is on your own thread. I'm not barring you from talking here (that isn't my place), but just saying that we could really help you on your own thread.

bv, to add to what I said about your own thread:

I think my experiences of finding out that they did "special things", and the way I dealt with that knowledge, could be useful to you. Did you read my monumentally long post? We could talk about this on your own thread.

Are you asking a serious question here, or are you testing this poster's MB knowledge?

In context, I assumed you not wanting to share your wife meant sharing her with another man which is intimate in nature. I dont agree my assumption was an imaginative leap on my part. Nevertheless, your response to what I wrote had nothing to do with the idea I presented; that treating your wife with the best care, respect, and consideration will beat the competition.

Not testing his knowledge.

I agree with the second part. Not on the first part because some of the things you have written did not make sense to me. your meaning was not clear on many things.

If I'm not clear, I'm happy to try to restate what I mean. I wish greater fulfillment for Gamma's and your marriages and try to write in a way that combines how I understand MB from a woman's point of view that also aligns with what Dr. Harley says.

I also think that there is great benefit in writing and talking to Dr. Harley himself and it's such an easy option to use.

All,

There is a great deal posted, I will attempt to respond to, been busy today.

However generally speaking, when I first stumbled on MB what I was taken with was the concept of radical honesty, and perhaps even more that radical dishonesty seemed to be the common sin if you will, in every case of infidelity I knew of and dishonesty prolonged the agony of the betrayed spouses and children.

I told my W everything I had ever done sexually and wanted the same from her, and this became for me a baseline I thought we would achieve someday.

God Bless
Gamma

BV,

Here is IMHO the real question:

Gamma, do you want radical honesty from your wife, meaning she answers ALL your questions to your satisfaction, including WHY she engaged in OS with OM, (even if this does not lead to her having OS with you) OR

YES I prefer this even if it lead to divorce. She may not have engaged in OS with OM btw, because she has said virtually nothing through the years about how physical the relationship was, with the exception that she had such overpowering attraction to OM2.

do you just want your wife to WILLINGLY engage in OS with you, even if you NEVER get radical honesty?

NO, NO, NO, if I wanted a woman who engages in sex unwillingly I suppose I could get a prostitute.

At one time in our relationship she was willing. Perhaps after her affair with OM2 she thought sex was dirty.

God Bless
Gamma

Are you unsure about whether they actually had sex? (I still don't understand exactly what you are trying to find out about their relationship, but I do see your point about historical honesty).

Has she said in the past that they did not have sex?

Has something happened since she told you that to make you suspect that they did have sex after all?

SC,

Gamma already knew that his girlfriend had been unfaithful to him when he married her. Marrying her wiped the chart clean. This was not an affair, nor an infidelity that he only recently found out about that, had he known about it at the time he was due to get married, he would not have married her. He knew and married her anyway. The debt and the need for compensation was paid off by the marriage.

In some ways that is true, however OM2 has gotten away without a scratch, OM2 debt has not been paid yet.

God Bless
Gamma

BV used the word "willingly", not "unwillingly" as you said.

What is your answer to the question that BV actually asked - about willing sex?

You use the same phrases over and over in your writings, Gamma, and I still don't understand what you mean.

What kind of scratch would be appropriate? Are you talking about telling his wife and kids what he did, or something else? Worse? What?

SC,

do you just want your wife to WILLINGLY engage in OS with you, even if you NEVER get radical honesty?

You are correct I answered a different question.

Yes I don't think I would resist if W suddenly wanted to give OS.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, is your suspicion that your wife had a powerful relationship with this man, and her feelings for him altered the way she felt about you? She married you, but she was then, and perhaps for some time after, in love with him? You have never had the love and passion that it's reasonable to hope for in a marriage because of her feelings for him?