You need to take the wheel away from your wife, Pius. Under these terms you will never move, because the house will never be empty enough under her definition.

I'm not sure what area of the country you are in, but there is currently a lack of housing inventory to put on the market in my area. Realtors are scrambling to find listings. Meanwhile, interest rates are starting to climb, so buyers who have been on the fence are becoming more motivated to buy before the rates go any higher. If this is the case in your area, now is the best time to get your house on the market.

Don't let the prospect of listing your house overwhelm you. Retain the services of a realtor. Let the realtor look at your house and tell you and your wife what you'll need to do to help market the property. It is unlikely that they will tell you to empty the house. Most often, they will suggest that you move certain pieces of furniture around, or maybe paint a bathroom.

Let someone who does this for a living tell you what you need to do, not your wife. She is invested in NOT selling the house.

I would like to offer an added perspective as a woman who has been unfaithful, suffered extreme withdrawal, and come out the other side having healed herself and her marriage. During an affair we become heavily attached to the other person and a bond is created. Then when the relationship is severed, there is a gaping hole left which causes this empty withdrawal and deep depression. But, if you are willing, it's possible for you to do things to fill that empty void and win your place back in her heart. (For, as long as that void remains empty, she will stay depressed and disconnected from you. Just waiting isn't going to restore anything.) Note: Even if she seems unreceptive, these things still make a difference. Send her emails letting her know the things you love about her (not about the things that she does, but who she actually is-- thoughtful, encouraging, outgoing...etc.), leave thoughtful little notes for her that tell her how beautiful you find her or how much you love her. Call her everyday from work just to let her know that she is occupying your thoughts.

Basically, focus your efforts on honoring her value-- who she is, and how special and beautiful she is to you. These are bonding things, and they reach far beyond any other type of gesture. This is how you can win back your spot in her heart. These kindnesses repeated diligently over time- requiring nothing from her in return- have the power to win back a long-gone heart.

I'm so sorry for your pain and trials in all this.

**edit**

Ask the realtor about getting your house staged. And don't hire any realtor who won't have professional photos taken and posted. The quality of the photos put on the internet makes all the difference between success and failure. The realtor needs to post the pictures on the internet the SAME DAY she posts your house. Insist on this, because some realtors will post your house on the internet with "photos to come". Don't let her do that.

In my state...I called Purple Heart, set an appointment and just set the bags of old clothes and donated items on my front porch.

I know it's an effort...but take some pictures and make a list of items donated such as:

Jeans:

Dresses:

Jackets:

Coats:

Shirts:

Belts:

Purses:


Etc. then put tick marks next to each item and be sure to date the hand written page to correspond with the date of donation. It doesn't have to be an exact count....however, then you go to the Salvation Army website and they have an list of the estimated value of donated items such that you can then line item your donation list...do the multiplication and estimate for tax purposes the value of your charitable donation.

Purple Heart and the Salvation Army won't do this for you and it's really easy for this to add up to HUGE amounts pretty quickly especially preceding a move. I forget what the maximum amount of non-cash donations you can write off is but if your house is big, you haven't donated in forever and you're kind of a hoarder...you might have to spread the donations out over two tax years to insure you get the whole deduction.

I know it's over-whelming but you can continue preparing your home WHILE it's listed and showing. If it sells...then you can get on with the business of packing and moving, if not, then keep working towards showing the home better and better. Re-list with better pictures.

Also...empty homes don't get the money that furnished homes do because they presume you are living somewhere else, paying two mortgages and desperate to sell.

I bought a 10 yrd delivery of mulch and had a crew of landscaping guys come in and in one day...cleaned up the entire property. The spread the new mulch, trimmed the trees up, cut back the overgrowth, weeded, moved some dirt to build up the beds, laid landscaping fabric, tilled the re-mulched the play area. It was a pretty big endeavor but it's amazing what 10 guys can get done in a day and it only cost me $500.00 plus $150 or so for the Mulch delivered (I know a tree guy so I get mulch cheap). That's $50 a guy...I think they were mostly undocumented and I knew the owner and I think he thought it would be quicker when he quoted me). Still it only took "us" about 4-5 hours as I recall.

That same afternoon I planted some new annuals packing in so very soon they looked like they'd been planted in the spring. If you can still find annuals in August they'll be super cheap closeout prices.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering

I think you're just new at this posting on an infidelity forum thing as each forum kind of develops it's own culture over time so I apologize if I seem like I'm bashing your post. It's an interesting perspective but I'm just a little bothered by it the idea that a wayward wife has a hole that was created by the loss of her OM that the BH has to try to fill. It's not just the unfortunate imagery of the use of the word "hole" that bothers me...(though 8 years ago it might have)....it's just this notion of the BH having to "focus [his] efforts on honoring her value-- who she is, and how special and beautiful she is to you" and the "This is how you can win back your spot in her heart" that I find distasteful.

I think a BH (or BW for that matter) does MB and continues Plan A through withdrawal in honor of THEIR VOWS and to see if they can fix their marriage and save their families. During withdrawal it's a thankless job meeting (or trying to meet) the emotional needs of a hurting (and hurtful) wayward spouse as they come down from the HIGH of an illicit love affair and withdraw from their toxic partner in crime...but the idea isn't "TO WIN". A wayward isn't a prize (especially at that moment in time) but they are a HOPE. We, the betrayed do it because we HOPE our marriage can be restored and on MB we do it with the intention that our marriage will become better than it was before. That it can and will become a loving marriage of extra-ordinary care. We do it during withdrawal with the hope that the wayward will soon follow our lead and meet our emotional needs despite not really feeling a whole lot of love for us EITHER.


I don't know...I just think your post focuses on fixing the hole in the ws's heart and "winning" the "prize" without acknowledging the fact the BS has a gaping hole in theirs too. Your husband may have done those things during that period of time but, IMO, it was a dishonest game and wasn't really because he was truly in love with you at that moment. He was simply trying to save his family and his brain was working overdrive on doing anything he could to save it and to keep from losing you. Brain scans of betrayed husband/boyfriends have evidenced that thoughts of their wayward spouse/girlfriend trigger activity in the same area of the brain where online gaming and logic occur as well as endorphins related to "romantic love". What this means is men compete for their woman and when we are losing them we go into gamesmanship mode and lust mode. So a husband like me...who months prior to my wife's affair was contemplating divorce myself suddenly, after discovering the affair, couldn't get enough of their wives and behaved passionately and steadfastly "in love" with them... only to discover when the endorphins wear off it's just a chemical in their brains. It's not love...but if the chemicals are channeled towards working a recovery program like MB it can lead to "love".

Sorry...kind of all over the place on this post...got interrupted several times and lost my train of thought. I read through some of the blog you and your husband linked prior to the moderators edited it out and it's nice to see a Christian couple with such beautiful children recovered and doing well. My caution to you is beware of the all too common problem on the internet of thinking that just because you survived it and came back from infidelity stronger than before makes you an expert on infidelity and recovery. Your story has value as does mine and many here but "we" aren't the experts and people like A. Bercht (who thinks she and her husband, as mere survivors of infidelity know more than the Ph.D's out there and who charge $495 for phone coaching when they are no more "experts" than you or I) and even the late self-proclaimed expert Peggy Vaughan (who never really recovered her marriage and wrote this about her philandering psychologist husband years later "Despite our sex being better than ever, James hopes it may someday be possible for us to have sex with others." (Beyond Affairs p. 190)". These people you are promoting are actually damaging families and hurting peoples chances of actually turning their marriages (and families) around. They may have good intentions and being very nice persons who enjoy limited success...YOU and your husband are an example of that...but these canned marital recovery programs by psuedo-experts aren't truly saving the amount of marriages the collective "we" non-experts on this forum have saved over the years and they certainly can't compare to the success Dr. Harley and his children have had in their professional practice utilizing their measured and scientifically developed and scientifically monitored and adjusted marital recovery and restoration plans.

Godspeed. Love to see you join in our discussion and, perhaps, implement the MB program into your two year recovery and see for yourselves how much further you had to go. Recovery/marriage isn't all about conflict resolution, sharing of childhood traumas and validation. Heck...if you keep at the infidelity advice game you might even be able to bring Dr. Harley's program into your own. It's available for FREE here at his website. At the very least...add the MB Radio App to your cell phone and listen to Joyce and Bill on the radio. In my NON-expert opinion...HE is the EXPERT in these matters.

Mr. W

Moving is a huge endeavor...but I would ask your boss to take a week off work (put you "in the hole" as you said") and just BE THERE in the house everyday...working together to get the house, inside and out...ready for sale.

A project like this is a huge distraction so you (and she) aren't completely focused on trying to recover. You get to keep an eye on her and TOGETHER you get to accomplish something. I presume the kids are going or gone back to school so you'll have hours to talk and meet needs and make deposits while keeping an eye on her. PLUS...take some time to get online and start shopping for your new home. Choosing where you want to live, reasonable budgets and looking at what's available. She's been living in fantasy land so "dreaming" with her about a future [with you in a new home] is a nice fantasy distraction for her.

ACTION (behavior) ...will be the thing that brings her out of her depression and self-loathing. She's got to start feeling better about herself before she can "feel" anything about anyone else. Her feelings will follow her actions. Sitting there sulking won't help. When she starts to feel a bit better after working on the house...you can point to that as evidence that "feelings lie" and that by taking actions...her feelings will follow. So what she doesn't FEEL like she loves you or could ever love you again...don't worry about that...she loved you once so it MIGHT happen again and that would be the best thing for the kids, right, so why not just TRY.

Again...she doesn't have to love you or even like you to TRY. You truly share her sentiment (you aren't in love with her either but you're willing to TRY). My wife hated that I was home a lot at first and seemingly up her butt about everything....but eventually her feelings started changing and as they changed her empathy and realization of what she'd done kicked in. She soon got on board with working the MB program too and we, from that point on maybe 3 months later, recovered TOGETHER as a team.

Mr. Wondering

I just talked to W and she agreed we need to move soon. We can't be constrained by having the house empty. We are going to try to talk to a real estate agent this week.

Agreed. Both individuals are absolutely in pain, and the betrayed spouse has suffered a trauma beyond compare. It is absolutely unfair for a betrayed spouse to consider the unfaithful spouse's feelings and wounds-- but both are still people. And BOTH (I apologize for not emphasizing it sooner) are responsible for putting energy back into helping eachother heal and move forward, as unfortunately both are wounded. She, the unfaithful spouse, holds the brunt of the responsibility for returning to the marriage and moving it forward. In no way is the betrayed responsible for "filling the hole in the other's heart"-- this man is the one who's been so greatly wounded and wronged. I am not de-emphasizing that. The considerations I offered were simply a response to the gentlemen who asked the question on the forum of "what can I do?". I cannot urge his wife to step up or do anything, she is not here asking questions. (Believe me, if she was, I would have many, many things to urge to her.) I can only offer him a new avenue to try as the ones he has been trying haven't been working. And the truth is, that though he is not obligated to do anything for her and he is owed everything from her-- there are still things he can do to draw her back if that is his desire. And sometimes it does take these things in order to motivate her to move forward again in the marriage. Unfortunately if there have been a lot of prior wounds in the marriage then it's going to take a show of love to engage her back in it it. I agree with you it is unfair, but it is truth plain and simple.

I'm glad to hear that you and your spouse have also healed from the pain of infidelity and are fully moving forward. I'm glad that the Dr. Harley's program has been so effective for you both. Blessings to you and your wife as you continue to move to a brighter future.

Do your kids know about the A?

Have you discussed where you would move TO? I would make it as far away as possible. If you are going to go to all this trouble you might as well make it worth your while. Can you get a job in another town far away? I would be having those kinds of discussions now.

For example, if you just move to the next neighborhood over or stay in the same town, all of your hard work will be for naught. I would strongly suggest you move out of that town so that neither of you are tripping over loserboy and dealing with endless triggers. Make your move pay off for you!

Indie, he said the older children know but not the little ones. I think his little ones are toddlers.

The ones he's been trying weren't working because she wasn't truly in withdrawal yet. She was still in contact and continuing the affair. Now that the affair is seemingly and hopefully over...he can start undertaking a recovery. However, typically during withdrawal there's only so much you can do other than insuring "no contact" is maintained. Overdoing the love notes and love letters will likely just be irritating and/or pathetic. Being present and meeting other needs is often easier and more advisable.


I do have a question for you [andreaandenis) about your recovery and exposure but I don't want to interrupt this gentleman's thread further with our discussion. Since you aren't looking for advice, I presume, I'll start the thread on the "other topics" sub-forum and ask my question once you acknowledge you've found the thread.

Thanks,

Godspeed, Mr. W

A house needs to be normal clean, neat, things put away to be presentable to sell.

What exactly do the kids know? Your answers are like a WW doing the trickle truth tango.

Four of the five kids pretty much know the full extent of everything now. Only the 1 year old doesn't know - obviously she is too young. Last weekend I told the 7 and 9 year old. I told them that mom had "an inappropriate relationship with another man" - and I told them who he was. I told them to let me know if they ever see him again - "he is an enemy of this family".

My wife seemed somewhat enthused looking at listings for new houses, and planning our move. She agreed to contact a real estate agent this week. I told her we can only do this move if she's fully committed to the marriage - it would be absurd to do this and get divorced in 3 months.

So far I am somewhat hopeful. Of course she still seems mostly in withdrawal and has not indicated any desire to move back into the master bedroom with me. We haven't had any physical contact of any kind for almost four months.

You are more likely to get her full commitment ONCE YOU MOVE AWAY!! I seriously doubt you will get it BEFORE then because she is still drunk on her affair. She is drunk on her affair because she lives right there by loserboy!

I am going to caution you about making statements like you made above. You need to get away REGARDLESS of her level of commitment. Can you imagine if you got divorced and she got you booted out of THAT house, right by the OM?? Do you want to be driving right by the OM's house for the next 18 years to visit your kids?? I doubt it. Get your family out of there!

Get out of there and don't dither another minute about "getting her commitment." You are much more likely to get it AFTER you move.

REGARDLESS of what happens with your marriage, you are better moving away. And the chances of your marriage surviving improves dramatically if you get out of there.

My concern is that you are planning to move FAR enough away that it would be very difficult for them to hook up. And far enough away that they are not running into each other when they go to town. Make it worth your while!

Melody - good points all. I'm going to make sure this move happens as soon as I possibly can.

I'm not sure how far away is far enough. I have a really good job now and finding another one would add a layer of complexity and uncertainty that I just don't feel I can tackle now - it would also slow down the process immeasurably. So my plans so far are to remain at my current job and move maybe 20-25 miles away. They could still see each other if determined, obviously, but it would be a lot harder than now where they could literally walk from one house to the other in five minutes.

Just plan to get as far away as possible. Any chance you can get transferred to another city by your company?

Can you move farther away than 25-30 minutes? For example, can you move 45 minutes going the other way from your employer? That would take you far away from his circle.

Does he children in your schools there? Does he have relatives he visits in your town?

Pius,

It is good to see you and your W are in agreement on moving to a new neighborhood. Doing so will give your M a chance in recovery.

What other things have you two agreed to do as part of your R?

The further you move, the better. My family moved to another state, 550 miles away. Yes, it meant finding new jobs and all that, but it also served as a concrete demonstration that our marriage was more important than any of those other things. It was a very strengthening experience that way.

The benefits are far greater than just avoiding the OM. It is a fresh start, free from all those triggers. The move was enormously successful for us. It was the single most effective thing we did.

My wife and I were on the radio program last year discussing issues associated with our move. The links, courtesy of Brainy, are:

Radio clip on Mr. and Mrs. Eureka's call
Segment #2
Segment #3