Communication has been received. A text. "Watching a film be back later"

My neighbour is awake. Time to go find them and confront?

Scratch that, my neighbour tells me he has already gone to work. Looks like I'm stuck waiting.

Go for it!

No dice. Neighbour has already gone by the time I've heard from him. I'm stuck waiting until such a time as she feels ready to come home.

Wife is back. Here we go.

Well, that did not go how I expected. She was calm throughout the whole thing, no anger whatsoever.

I said exactly what we agreed a few pages ago, and she responded that she did spend the night at Tattoo Guy's place and slept on the couch (and that it was OK because his young daughter was there anyway). She said, in summary, that she feels the relationship is hopeless, she is very unhappy at the moment and she cannot even see a future where she is happy together with me right now.
I countered that I appreciate she is unhappy and that is a smyptom of things being wrong in our relationship, which we can work to change.
She said that she does not want her entire life to be a fight. She doesn't want to "force" us to be together in the hope that things might improve. (I don't think she fully understood Dr. Harley's stuff on the matter). I explained that there has to be an element of "forcing" before it comes naturally, because there is a bunch of negativity between us that we have to break through first. She doesn't think it should be that way.

What worried me the most is that she said, in perfectly calm and collected tones, that it is nothing that I have done or haven't done, she is simply unhappy with US and can't see ever being happy with US. She wants time apart to try and work out who she wants to be, and that maybe she would have a chance to remember that she (once) loved me.

I asked if we could start trying to reconnect using Dr. Harley's recommended methods (shared activity etc) while she does her thinking, because the good feelings admittedly take a while to kick in. Apparently this is not possible for her.


I find it hurtful that she is apparently unwilling to try and work at it ("I feel we've been working at it for so long already", she said, and it didn't help when I tried to explain that we may have been applying our efforts in the wrong directions for each other) and that I basically have to wait and see if the prospect of being my wife is appealing enough for her to want to stay. She proposes a separation whereby she sleeps in the spare room and takes care of the children in the daytime and we only see each other at switch-over time.

Taken the day off work and I'm going to take the boys out somewhere and do something fun with them. Meanwhile my dear wife sleeps in our spare bed, presumably exhausted from her sleepless night wondering whether she wants to be a member of the family we built or not.

I didn't even have a chance to level the other points that we discussed on the forum here, because they only work if the spouse currently WANTS to fix the relationship (or knows that they should), and she currently doesn't know if she wants to or not. Awesome.

Venturi,

So sorry to hear your W is having an affair. Again no person unhappy in a marriage leaves to �find� the answers. They stay and work on the M. The reason she�s leaving is because she�s found someone to compare you with and thus has given her focus to this POSOM (Other Man) � Tattoo Boy � scumbag who let�s married women spend the night at his place� couch my rear.



This is typical Wayward Fogbabble. She doesn't want time apart to work out who she wants to be, she wants time apart to work on who she wants to be with and that is POSOM (Other Man). She�s already made up her mind.

Venturi, I wouldn't expect her to want to work on the relationship while she is in an affair. It is real important that you understand your wife's mentality right now and I don't think you do.

Your wife is high on the addiction of an affair. You must view her as you would a falling down drunk. Would you preach the 12 steps of AA to a falling down drunk or would you FIRST take his alcohol away and let him sober up?

See how counterproductive that would be? It is counterproductive to talk to your wife about Marriage Builders and especially telling her there is "force" involved. I am not sure what gave you the impression there was force involved.

You need to focus on FACTS and not her fogbabble. We don't care what your wife SAYS but what she DOES. You already know she is a liar. Your wife slept with the tattoo guy last night. That is who her affair is with. Your next steps are to bust up her affair via exposure. You do not need your wife's admission to know the truth. So your next step should be exposure of the affair. Please go read the exposure thread - in my signature - and start making plans to expose.

Mr. Alias, Melody, thankyou for your thoughts and support.

I have spent the day with my kids today at the park and had a great time with them. Once I decided to stop dwelling on the park bench, looking at my phone in the hope of any communication (not from my wife but from the friends who I'm asking for help and support in this situation), and got up and played with my boys I just had fun. And I realised that even when I have been to the park with them and my wife together, I don't really let go and have fun. I think we have been having issues much longer than I realised, and that the relationship has seriously impacted me as a person.

She was out today, allegedly meeting a mutual female friend to talk (which was corroborated by the friend's fiancee, my best friend, whom I trust implicitly). But I heard from him that the meeting was at about 11, and my wife left the house 8 or 9. Then I had a call from her a little while ago explaining that essentially unless I needed her home to take our eldest son to tennis practice (I don't, it's walking distance) then I will see her when I see her, to which she replied "I'll be home in time for you to go to work". So she's planning on spending another night with this guy.

So in summary:
* Wife doesn't feel much enthusiasm for marriage.
* I have offered to work it out together but she doesn't want to.
* She is wilfully putting herself in situations that further strain the marriage and are extremely vulnerable to an affair, if that hasn't already happened, which may be my own delusion.
* I was significantly happier alone with my kids today than I can remember being with my kids and her at the same time. Not because I wanted to distance myself from her but because she was distant from me which dragged me down.
* Thus, I don't feel much like working on the marriage, either, because I have very little memory of positive things and a lot of gradual built up pain; AND a realisation that it has affected other areas of my life.

I spoke with my boys about it, who showed remarkable maturity considering their age. I outlined to them (in a calm and fair manner) the situation, not mentioning anything about infidelity yet but merely their mum's "identity crisis" and the concept of happiness/unhappiness in couples.
The gist I got from them was that they would prefer everything to stay how it is (all living together) and Mummy to be happy again, but if that can't happen, I think they appreciated that it may be better to be apart but happy. I am so proud of them for being able to show such emotional maturity at ages 4 and 3.

I know this is marriage BUILDERS not GIVER-UPPERS. But if she hasn't wanted the relationship for a while (even if currently blinded by affair-addiction), and I don't think I want it right now, and I feel significantly better off without it, is there worth in pursuing it - apart from the fact that if we could reconcile it (perhaps after years of effort) it would be good for a family environment for our children?

The only thing that I think I would struggle with if we were to split up would be the introduction of another man into my children's life as a step-dad figure, whether deliberately or just by proximity. I don't think I could handle that.

To put this another way, you don't try to reason with a falling down drunk.. It is a waste of time.

Without forewarning her, I would expose the affair to all your friends and family. Go to the OM's facebook page RIGHT NOW and copy and paste all of his contacts into a WORD doc. Send them exposure messages one by one. You will have to pay a $1 to send to his inbox.

You are not thinking clearly so I am asking you to stick with us for awhile and put aside your OWN theories. First off, we already knew there were problems in your marriage. I believe you that there were times you were unhappy. That is all stuff can be turned around with this program. We know how to transform this marriage if you will just bust up this affair.

And you may decide in the future it is not worth it. That is fine and we will support you. But the reasons you are giving up are NOT valid reasons. You are wanting to get rid of the car because it needs a new tire.

Even if you decide not to stay married, you need to do everything in your power to bust up this affair.

If you don't get to work, your boys are going to have a new "daddy." So stop writing these long posts that are a distraction, and get to work.

Go and copy and paste the OM's facebook contacts into a WORD doc right now for safekeeping and then go read my exposure thread. Can you do that?

Venturi, my friend. Please do not speak foolishness to those children. They are confused enough without preaching nonsense to them. Your wife is having an AFFAIR. Children can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies. Giving them crazy and false explanations for the source of tension in their lives only confuses them and teaches them to be dishonest.

The 3 year old is not going to understand, but a 4 yr old will usually understand the concept of adultery. I would tell them their mom is committing adultery with another man and give his name so they know who the enemy of their family is. Explain to them that married people are not supposed to date other people and how much it hurts you. ENCOURAGE your children to ask their mother about it.

Here is what Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders said:

OK, I'm with you ML. Facebook friends of Tattoo Guy copied down.
I have to take my lad to tennis practice, and play with them this evening, but once they are tucked up safe in bed it's game time; including phone calls to both our parents as recommended.
I have also tried to explain the adultery "loving somebody else" element to my eldest boy but I don't know how much went in.

Good job! And don't tell your wife you plan on exposing and don't try to use it as leverage. Understand? It must come as a complete surprise.

Just let your child know mommy has a boyfriend and wives shouldn't have boyfriends because they have husbands and vice versa. Not sure of the age of your child but that worked with my DS5 and he was four at the time. Also let your children know that you are up for reconcilation and how much pain your WW is inflicting on you by having a boyfriend aka affair partner.

Good job Venturi.

Do yourself a favor and let Melody continue to guide you. Look to her (and others) for specific directions on what to do next. DO NOT STRAY from the plan they outline. Doing so will impede your efforts.

You are preparing to expose. Super. You also need to prepare for her response to your exposure. She will go ballistic. Remain calm. Don�t get into any long discussion on why you did what you did. Simply state that you are trying to save your marriage and are looking for the support of others.

Looks like good times are ahead.
Right now, pizza with my boys and a bedtime story and then - to battle, in the name of our family.

Did you read Melody's Exposure 101 thread?

It will prove extremely helpful for you today and the days that follow.

Exposure 101

Thank you Venturi for standing up for your family.

We are proud of you.

Venturi, before you send out exposure letters and make calls, it would be helpful if you posted one of the letters HERE so we know you are presenting the situation properly. Betrayed spouses have a tendency to be ambiguous and wordy about the situation which muddies the waters. I want to make sure your talking points are very black and white in order to get the best response.

And please pay careful attention to what MrAlias said about her going ballistic. She will go ballistic when she finds out you exposed her affair. Just expect it and be prepared.

Minutes too late I'm afraid, I commenced the exposure just before your post. Regardless, I used the templates in your linked thread with only a minor tweak or two.

Facebook messages dispatched to wife's close friends, and a large group of likely-looking friends for Tattoo Guy. Phone call had with my parents, and imminent with her parents. Here we go, then, here comes the storm, hope I am ready for this.