Hi all,
Middle of the night here and back to sleep for me in a second... but just wanted to get something in before YOU guys all go to bed too.

I've already talked to WW's mum as part of Exposure: she knows the facts of events, and my conclusion of an affair. She felt that affair was too hasty a conclusion but agreed that something was definitely going on, that WW was deluding herself to some degree, and certainly not trying her best to live a correct wifely and motherly life.

Well , we'll see. Still have much to learn (and have been studying in my spare time, which is not much), but I'll try and jump in from time to time when I think I can help a little.

I'm glad you exposed to MIL.

Did you put a GPS on her vehicle to help find OM?

That's understandable that she wouldn't come to the right conclusion since it is her daughter and she has no experience. That is ok, but what you need from her is her commitment to persuade her daughter to end her affair. Will she do that?

And you do plan on contacting the OM's GF, right?

Oh, fer cryin' out loud, Viper - I still have much to learn! Same thing for a lot of posters on this site.

Saddle up, man - I'm glad to see you back here.

LOL, it's really just a matter of free time more than anything, Miss Bliss (sorry, couldn't resist).

When I mentioned earlier that I have a lot on my plate, I meant a WHOLE lot!

Long story.

As WW's mum is not stuck in the fog, is it OK to use a different way of speaking to her about it?
I don't believe that WW feels that what she is doing IS an affair, but I see there is significant value in sticking to that word and insisting it IS an affair. (Eventually she'll have a break in the blind resentment of me and accept that she must have been doing something to make me feel that way which wasn't my own paranoia - or is that my fog talking...? Argh.)

But MIL isn't in the fog, apart from any emitted by WW that MIL can't cut through herself, which I believe she does want to. Can I be more amorphous with my concepts when talking to MIL - ie telling her that "WW must end whatever she has going on elsewhere so we can at least deal with the situation without outside influence" OK, rather than going on about an affair? I accept that this is my denial talking, BUT the end goal is to be the REASONABLE one is it not, and I only have to be currently UNREASONABLE with WW because she is not in a position to fairly reason, and we have to get her out of that position first.

What I'm saying is that I don't want to appear pig-headed unless it is beneficial to me and to the beginning of recovery, because pig-headedness is not in my nature and friends&family could well take that to mean "I've changed as a person", as WW will be telling them, and allow themselves to buy in to her gaslighting.


I haven't done anything like GPS yet. I have at least one positive avenue I can pursue to find out his address - some of our friends are friends with OM's ex, I'm sure at least one of them will help me find her, and I'm fairly confident that the ex will help me find OM. But I will look into GPS.

It WAS/IS an affair. Call it what it is !

I agree you should be "reasonable" and a "reasonable" person adheres to reality and uses accurate, truthful language in their conversation. Your wife is having an affair and it helps no one to call it something it is not. That is NOT reasonable. Nihilism is a form of mental illness that greatly impairs your powers of reason; you can ill afford it in this crisis.

Good man!

OK guys.
If it's good to be "reasonable" (except when dealing with WW on her own as she is in the fog), then my plan for the conversation with WW/MIL would be as follows:

- Ask MIL to outline her understanding of the current situation, specifically referring to our conversation last night where I gave the "speech"/showed her the example letter for breaking off affair. (Because this conversation will come after a private one between MIL and WW where WW may have attempted to gaslight her).
- If there are any inaccuracies due to WW feeding her false information, correct them.
- Reiterate my position (End the affair so we can build a new happy marriage/Continue to live in limbo/File for divorce, but I will do nothing to assist it)

Then critically (and I am unsure what you guys will say)
- If MIL has doubts with my current stance, then lay out the facts before her - facts meaning the observed events and actions of WW - and explain the conclusions I have been forced to draw as a result of them (ie there is an affair).

I will avoid explaining future plans or "what happens next", without being blunt, apart from saying that I DON'T want the old broken relationship back, which clearly had fundamental flaws, but instead want a new one where we only make each other happy.




Please correct me if I'm heading wrong! I have faith in the logic of my MIL, the same faith that I had in my WW - but have had to accept is currently clouded by fog. MIL is not in the fog, and has a resistance to it; so I think it's safe.

What about avoiding any discussions about the nature of the "relationship" and ask her to help you persuade WW to end her affair and commit to the marriage? Ask for her support in implementing all the necessary steps to save your marriage. Tell her these are the steps it will take to turn this around. Can I get your help?

I think you are overthinking this.

Also, have you a) contacted the OM's GF and b) found his house yet?

I've asked her those questions in private in the conversation I had with her in the Exposure, though did not talk to her about the "steps to turn this around" because I hadn't got that far yet. Hopefully WW has relayed to her those steps accurately but I will hear what she understood them to be first, and then correct if necessary. She said in our exposure conversation I have her support, because she of course wants the best for her daughter, and thinks that the marriage IS the best thing for WW.

I think Melody it ultimately comes down to the question: can I trust my gut feelings when dealing with people outside the affair? It seems so far that's the message I've been getting, though to be careful of my own denial. If I can trust my instincts around non-fog folk, then I am confident what to do.

Thanks so much for your support. When all this is said and done I'll have to ask for your address so I can send you some kind of gift to express my gratitude.



edit to add: I haven't found OM's house or contacted his GF yet, I've been on a day trip with the family literally the entire time between now and my last post. Once I've had this discussion with MIL/WW, those will be my next objectives; for now I want to remain focused.

Venturi, I don't understand what you are asking. Why would you need to trust them? For what exactly?

To answer your question about trusting your instincts, it seems to me you gave that up a long ago and have developed the adult habit of dismissing your instincts. What do you think about that?

I meant trust my instincts with regards to conversing: what to say vs what not to say, how to form sentences, etc; based on the person I am conversing with.

You're probably right. I know I definitely have "learnt" to dismiss my instincts with regard to my marriage, and I wouldn't be surprised if I begin to notice other areas of my life where I do it too.

I think you will do just fine, but I would plan on speaking to your MIL FIRST so that your wayward wife doesn't get the opportunity to spin the story. It is always better to get the TRUTH first so she has a framework for the things your wife tells her.

Can you do that?


I developed this habit at a very young age when I was exposed to my father's affair. [age 4] I was exposed to his affair and this seemed WRONG to me. But since no adult validated that instinct, I concluded there was something wrong with me and learned to dismiss my instincts. Not having the aide of one's instincts is very crippling and confusing and makes it hard to discern reality and make sound decisions at times. [you can't make good decisions if you can't discern reality] I don't know if this is the case with you but I have seen some of those same traits here. Just something to think about...

You are very welcome! And thank you for making it worth our while. You can express your gratitude by saving your marriage. WE all love seeing that!

Well, we talked extensively this evening, with my mother-in-law present, but parted ways with things still looking pretty bleak.

But then my wife came to me in private later and we talked some more, and truly opened up to one another for the first time in a very long time. She wrote and sent the letter with me as I asked, and now I believe her at her word - she had nothing more than a poorly-timed friendship with the man in question, which followed a single stumble - fuelled by alcohol and deep sadness - for which she hated herself.

We both said that we love each other, want to be happy with each other and never sad, and we both want to be IN love with each other. We're on the road to recovery.

Out of respect for my wife, I am going to ask for this thread to be closed, and will not be returning to these forums. We will be reading the principles of Marriage Builders together, and following it if we both feel it to be a good plan for us.

Thread locked at poster's request.