Melody. I'm sorry to ask so much of you, and have to ask something of you yet again, but could you show me how to work that into the "speech" (for lack of a better way of putting it) and/or letter? I have used the template letter exactly and just edited in the names.

That is absolutely brilliant and is absolutely TRUE. You have ONE SHOT to get this right. When you have the affair on the ropes, you can't afford to let it get up again. You have to kill it while you have the leverage, because you won't have the strength or the leverage again.

I am saving the above paragraph for future use.

I agree, that really helped me. There is a nice analogy in there somewhere that someone could build, relating the affair to a car accident, spouse lying on the floor critically injured and delerious, with ambulance and hospital very far away.

"I have something to say, and won't get involved in an extended discussion. They are counterproductive at the moment.

Your affair must end TODAY. I am asking that you end all contact for life with him. Your affair is extremely hurtful to me and I would like you to send him a letter similar to this one, [have it in hand] that we write together and mail together.

I will not co-operate with any separation. If you need to move out you can, but the kids and I will be staying here. If someone's has to leave, it must be you. Your opposite sex friendships and single lifestyle have all but destroyed our marriage. In order for this marriage to work, that has to end.

I want to build a safe marriage of happiness with you, and not sadness. I want to fix the problems that led us to this point. But that can't happen until you end your affair, stop all friendships with other men and stop going out running around."

WW: I don't want the marriage anyway!

VEnturi: I don't either under these circumstances. But until we are divorced, I insist you end your affair and stop this lifestyle. It is hurtful to me and the kids

WW: I can do what I want!

VEnturi: I need you to end your affair with the OM

VEnturi: out of respect for me and the kids I am asking that you end your affair and end this lifestyle

I have only one thing to say, and I won't be involved in an extended discussion. They are counterproductive at the moment.

The affair must end TODAY. I am asking that you end all contact for life with him. There's nothing to discuss until that point. I would like you to send him a letter similar to this one, that we write together and mail together.

I want to build a safe marriage of happiness with you, and not sadness. I want to fix the problems that led us to this point.

I will not tolerate ANY relationships with any men. If you would like to remain married then you need to stay home and work on the marriage, not run around like a single woman. THAT will lead to divorce.

I will not co-operate with any separation. If you need to move out you can, but the kids and I will be staying here. If someone's has to leave, it must be you.

V,

So when are you having this conversation with your WW?

OK, I just said it to her. I'm writing this without reading any of the posts made since about 3 hours ago, so I don't allow them to influence my thoughts and thus my writing. I will catch up with them once I post.

This afternoon was spent having my son's birthday party. I was supportive with party matters and cordial with her. I was a GREAT father to the kids. I noticed my wife was looking ill.
We had dinner all together with the children and opened some of our son's presents. There were some geniune smiles from both of us.
Once the children were put to bed, we wrapped his remaining presents together but in relative silence. My wife was particularly ill, and began retching and trembling. She was swallowing back tears the entire time. She has always suffered with stress-related illness. I figured that this came under "Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous", from the "Carrot/Stick of Plan A" thread. I offered to get her water etc but I did not comfort her. Then I said the pre-arranged passage and gave her the example letter.

I'm going to paraphrase because I think I can do that accurately and remove the gaslighting which you guys don't want to read. She simply denied there being any affair, screwed up the letter and threw it in my face. She said she would not be moving out.
When I stuck to my guns like a broken record about ending the affair, she eventually got up and left, saying she was going to have to consult a solicitor.

Wow, her reaction is pretty 101 that she's having an affair. Now to find out who Tattoo guy is and expose this.

You did great! She was not expecting you to not buy her crap anymore. Now she is playing the lawyer card in order to scare you. Just stick to your talking points and if she starts to leave ask her where she is going and ask if she is going to see her affair partner again. Ask her to stop carrying on her affair and her single lifestyle while you are still married. Just stick to that and don't veer from your stance.

I would find out where the OM lives and go over there. Let him know that you will fight for your wife and that there is no future for him in her life. Tell him he will be eternally hated by your children and the inlaws if your marriage did break up over this.

Doesn't the tattooguy have a girlfriend?

Melody, thanks, that means a lot. I was terrified you (or others) were going to tell me I'd done something wrong and screwed it up, again!

When you say "stick to your talking points" I am thinking you mean avoiding extended discussions, and any brief discussions only feature the following:
- Nothing can happen until you end the affair and your single lifestyle.
- I want to build a happy new life together.
- I will not move out of the house and nor will the children. If you feel one of us HAS to move out, it must be you.

I am thinking that you also mean that the ball is somewhat in her court, now. I shouldn't start ANY more discussions because they would just be badgering her. She must be the one start the next discussion, during which I stick to the above points.

By "if she starts to leave, ask her where she is going and if she is going to see him again" I think you are talking only about if she is leaving the house, not just leaving a discussion?

I will try and find out where OM lives and carry out the confrontation you recommended. You are correct, he does have a girlfriend.


An element of all this is her "single lifestyle" as we have brought up in the Speech I just gave to her; but there's no real way we can "confront" that, is there? Apart from telling her what I've told her, there's no one particular other party that can be confronted. The only thing I could think of, is speaking to the managers of the 2 local bars and asking them not to serve her alcohol if she comes in, unless she is with a female friend. Or is that too extreme? The 2 bars are the only local drinking holes and it's where many of her "single lifestyle" problems are focused because the temptation of other men lurks there and the enabler of alcohol is freely available.

Sorry, one more thing. In our discussions last night, it was planned to have a talk involving WW's mother, after WW has a chance to talk to her mother alone. We haven't currently cancelled those plans.

Earlier some of you expressed concerns that we shouldn't have that discussion because WW will try to put a spin on it and gaslight her.

I don't think my mother-in-law will be gaslit easily and certainly not enough to be 100% on WW's side regardless of anything I say. She's very intelligent, level-headed and caring toward both of us, and was married to a chronic gaslighter for over a decade before she finally broke out. I think that when she sees the plain choice I have put before WW: either cease contact with someone you say you don't even care about and we can heal; continue to suffer here in limbo; or divorce me - when she sees that choice is what I have offered then she will be firmly on my side and probably try to win WW over for me. Her logical brain, detached from the fog surrounding all this, couldn't fail to see that breaking it off with the OM is the best option.

It is probably not in your hands to prevent her from speaking privately to her own mother, so not much point in debating if you should allow it.

Don't agonize over what you cannot control.

At least if you also see MIL together, MIL continues to hear you as we'll.

Exactly! In particular the talking point that she end her affair.


Right.


I would get in touch with her and see if she will be your ally in killing this affair. MAke sure she understands this is an affair and you don't believe their lies about sleeping on the couch, etc.


I don't think you can get very far asking them not to serve her. Are any of these so called "friends" married? If so, I would get ahold of their husbands and let them know your wife is having an affair and theirs may be too.

You're doing great.

I would say "let's tell your mother the news together". Actually you need to talk to her mother alone and first.

I would speak to her alone FIRST and make sure she understands there is an ongoing affair and ask her to be your ally in busting this up. This is not a he said/she said but a clear cut case of wrong versus right. Her daughter needs her help in persuading her to end her affair. Hopefully you can count on her mother.

Can you call the mother before she gets there?

I think you're over-reaching on this particular issue, Venturi. First of all, she's an adult patron entering their establishment. Unless she proves herself incapable of holding the liquor they are serving her, there is no legal reason she shouldn't be drinking there (in their eyes, and they are right.)

ETA: By the way, you're doing great. Keep listening.

Since I haven't seen this posted yet, I'll pile on. If you want to find out where this POSTATTOO guy lives, put a GPS in her car. They're not expensive and easily hidden, like say, under the carpet in trunk or under the spare tire in the wheel well. You'll find out where he lives soon enough. I can promise you that.

I would also get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and install it inside the car somewhere. That little knee knocker panel right below the steering wheel is a good place. Get some velcro to secure it though as you don't want that sucker sliding out of place and under her feet to find.

I would also talk to her mother BEFORE she has a crack at her alone. If not, you'll be painted as the biggest SOB since Hitler to demonize you and justify her actions. There's also a very good chance her mother will buy it (in time) if she presents it right. Don't for one second think your WW won't do this, that she wouldn't do this to you....she will. Bet on it. Bet big.

JMO

Viper! Where the heck have you been??? Mister, you've been missed.

Sorry for the t/j, Venturi.

Hio, mb! Been lurking from time to time. Just a lot on my plate these days.

I hope you're doing well.

I'm doing great-thanks for asking. I'd love to see you back on here and posting. Please think about it