Yes, it is the 'coveting' nature of the relationship which makes it adultery, there is no need for it to be a PA to be considered such..

But I hadn't in my phrasing accused him of such. Though there is evidence of an EA, I was referring to the illogical nature of threatening adultery - instead of protecting himself FROM adultery.

Regardless of whether an EA has or has not happened, it is important to put in place protections now.

But I think you are right to stress that an EA is still adultery and FTL should be aware of that and protect himself from both.

I do not believe being angry about something is wrong. I had justifiable reasons to be angry. I think the word anger is being associated with improper actions, which is wrong. It is best to be calm but it is human nature to become angry. We should resolve our anger before the sun goes down.

To clarify, there is no other woman in my life. I have not committed adultery. I do have the doors closed to any external temptations.

I do not believe I was or am wrong for going to my wife and expressing my needs to her. It may seem or be selfish but we all have needs. I did not go to another woman and ask her to meet my needs, I turned to my wife.

Anger is a human emotion based in fear.
The more fear filled you are about a situation causing confusion and frustration....the angrier the person feels.
Angry outbursts are a LOVE BUSTER.
Every angry outburst creates less love in the LOVE BANK account between spouses.

Read the Basic Concepts ^ (up at the top of the website page)

Dr Harely views anger of any description as one of the worst marital habits and one of the most destructive things you can do to your spouse.

I have heard him say that anger can sometimes be more destructive than adultery, because anger can involve daily punishment for one spouse. Commonly, if someone cannot stop being angry he tells the couple to separate for a year until the angry spouse proves he/she can control themselves in future.

Anger has no place in the marital relation. You seem to suggest that your anger was purely a feeling with no actions involved.

That's clearly nonsense because your wife complained about your visible anger. She saw it, she felt it, it affected her. You excused yourself (and continue to), but you don't seem to understand how destructive it is to punish your spouse verbally or with anger.



By then the damage is done. You cant punish your wife with anger whenever the mood takes you and say 'sorry' at sunset. Particularly since you feel justified in doing it whenever your spouse 'deserves it'

When your wife complained, you told her she deserved it. i am not particularly concerned that YOU don't think this was wrong. Dr Harley, who has extensive experience talks about how damaging it is to use anger to punish.

YOU think:



but Dr Harley thinks:





What changes have you made to achieve this?



It isn't selfish at all, it is highly sensible to ask your wife to meet to your needs. It was only the silly tag-on 'else I will be tempted to have an affair' that was foolish.

Have you listened to these clips?
Anger Management 101

Your anger is YOUR issue not hers. No one is pulling strings making you angry, even when provoked. There is nothing to stop you from either keeping your temper or walking away.

This man needs help recovering his marriage. He did not have an EA and I see no evidence of angry outbursts or verbal abuse unless I overlooked something in skimming through the posts. He certainly has a right to his anger. I'd be plenty angry if I were him. But as long as he controls his feelings he's fine. I'm sure many here will argue my point, but I'm not going to engage in a debate over this because it wont help FTL. So I will ignore all responses on these issues.

Findingthelight,
You need to be decisive and action-oriented. You have failed badly here because you have listened to a counselor who knows nothing about saving marriages and you have a misguided belief that God want you to stay in an unhappy marriage. I don't believe in divorce, but I don't believe in enabling sin either. Do you? If you want to save your marriage, you need to set conditions with your WW and act on them. Your inaction has enabled your wife's affair and done a lot of damage to any chances of recovery.

By all indications, you are open to staying in Plan A for awhile. So DO it.

But remember the carrot and the stick.

1) Expose her affair to all family and friends who don't know about it.

2) She may still be in an affair. You have to find out. Root it out, and destroy it. You can't move forward if there is another man out there.

3) Write your wife a letter telling her how much you love her and how much you believe that you can have a loving marriage. Dr. Harley's daughter had me draft one when I was in your situation. Show her how much you love her, and think about the feelings you once had. The love you once shared can be resurrected if you both give love a chance.

4) Tell her in the letter that you cannot abide by her wayward behavior and cannot live with her until she makes a commitment to ending her affair (if you think its over, then she must take a polygraph to prove it).

5)You are demanding her to move out, and that is the right thing to do. Set conditions for her return: a) no contact for life with her affair partner, b) no independent lifestyle, c) no passwords on e-mail accounts, d) no social networking, e) read Dr. Harley's books and abide by his principles, such as POJA, 20 hours of UA time together each week, no independent behavior, etc. f) she must take a polygraph.

6) In the meantime, be kind, loving, and considerate with her. No angry outbursts and no disrespectful judgements. Show her was a great father you are with your 6 year old. Send her kindly worded text messages. Let her see that you are a good man and show her the man she fell in love with a long time ago.

7) At all costs, avoid angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and attempts to educate her (after the letter is sent).


Wayward spouses do come out of the fog when the affair is killed and time is given for recovery. But it is a process that takes a long time.

Right now, she is in the fog and she is a selfish beast. They all are.

If you want to save your marriage, get her out of the house (and be strong about this!), and then begin plan a following those steps above.

There are no guarantees--and she may indeed be a renter--but at least you know you followed a plan that has the best chance of working and you gave it your best.

Finally, read Surviving an Affair, Love Busters, and His Needs Her Needs.

This is what we are trying to persuade him to do. However he isn't familiar with the need to entirely eliminate angry outbursts.

His wife has complained and instead of acting on her complaint, he blamed his behaviour on her.

Telling him he has a right to be angry will not help him recover his marriage.

Well no, he doesn't have a "right" to his anger and he certainly doesn't have a right to have an affair because he is angry. Did you read his thread? He DID have an EA and even told his wife he might cheat if she wouldn't meet his needs. He wrote Dr Harley an email telling of his EA in 2011 and 2012. You can ignore all responses about his anger, but you are posting advice that is contradictory to Dr Harley's when you tell him he has a "right" to be angry. That doesn't help and it doesn't help his marriage.

Was the fact that Jesus was angry wrong? My wife doesn't complain out my anger, I rarely have angry outbursts. My quote about anger was not said to her.

" Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ..."

I do not feel I was wrong in telling my wife I could be tempted. All of this was said in the past. I am not here to argue. I came here for support and I appreciate everyone's feedback and value everyone's opinion.

So what is your plan?

Thanks for your feedback.

What I need to do is find out for sure whether an affair is going on. I will hire a PI. Her actions are no different towards me when her affair was active.

I can almost guarantee that my wife will not submit to a polygraph.

She believes that I am being controlling when asked for her passwords to accounts or to see her phone. The counselor even said I was controlling.

I have read all of the books. I am a loving father and spend a lot of my time with my kids since my wife refuses to make time with me. I am always doing romantic things: love notes, texts, housework/cleaning, even putting up a sign in our front yard that said the worlds most beautiful woman lives here. She is unresponsive to everything.

May 30, 2012 was the day my wife opened up to me and admitted to everything I believed and said she wanted our marriage to work. She thought for sure that I leave her and file divorce when she told me. I honestly believe that is what she truly wants.

My wife tells me that she loves me and sometimes I just ask her to show me.

She said to me today that anything I do is none of her business. I told her that what I do is her business because we are still married.

Jesus didn't show anger but the righteous indignation of God.

(If you want to get biblical)

When will you be able to hire one?
Private Investigators

Can you put any spyware on her phone? Keylogger on her computer? VAR in her vehicle?

Have you asked her to write a NC letter to OM? This will tell you alot.

That's quite normal from waywards. You should expect no response from her during Plan A. During Plan B she may get nostalgic about these times when her choices without you dont work out well.



A good Plan A response.

However you really need to clean up your own side of the street for all these good Plan A efforts to shine. I am sorry if you feel we are bashing you but you are being really vague about quite important issues which will trip you up.

Please be specific on how you will resolve the EA and lovebusters:

HOW did you close the door on the OW? What changes have you made to stop all contact?

Also anger HAS to be eliminated. You will make withdrawals before even starting to fill up your wife's loveank if you do not.

When you mention anger here:




What anger were you referring to and how will you eliminate all signs of anger?

She won't take the Poly because she has something to hide. She is unwilling to take part in radical honesty, and until she does this will not work. She must leave, and you must write the letter with your conditions for recovering your marriage. Are you ready take action?

There is a difference between wanted support and wanting validation. We are trying to support you. That is why we are trying to convince you that your anger is your own choice, not your wife's fault. We are trying to get you to realize how your own actions have contributed to your marriage problems. Armed with this knowledge, you will have the best chance of making your marriage work.

If we give you validation, then where are the solutions? I know that I would not be happily married right now if I had done what you have done. So, take a critical look at your efforts so far. Do you really want us to just tell you that you are justified and all is hopeless?

I found a local PI and will contact them to get a quote. Depending on the cost, I will hire right away.

I can not put spyware on her phone. It's an IPhone and she always has it locked. Her laptop is locked in the apartment. She also uses an Ipad and IPod Touch, both are locked. They were the tools used to communicate to the OM.

I will check into a VAR. I do not have the keys to her car anymore and her car is due for an inspection this month.

In the past I have asked her to write a letter, she refused.

My wife does things on purpose knowing that they will upset me and then looks at me like I'm the one causing drama.

I don't have many angry outbursts. There is anger built up inside of me for what she has done. I know it's within myself. That was in the past.

Give you an example and tell me if you would not be angry:

My daughter, who was 12 at the time, was raped by her best friends dad. My daughter was in the hospital for attempting suicide. I would go visit my daughter while my wife was visiting OM. The man was sentenced to 98 years in prison.

I have self control and if I do become angry I talk to God and ask for his help and strength. I turn the other cheek.

"A man doesn't love his wife because she deserves to be loved, a man love his wife so he can turn her into somebody who he wants to love"

I have and I will listen again.

Thank you!