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See a lawyer first to see how to get exclusive use of the home. Plan quietly, avoid lovebusters.
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He hasn't threatened me or the kids, but it sucks having him here. I am trying to institute plan B but it is really hard with him here. I am just not acknowledging his presence. This is not going to be pretty and unfair to the kids. MM, Plan B is a separation, so you can't do that with him there. I would contact a lawyer and see about getting him moved out. Start thinking of other ways you can separate.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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See a lawyer first to see how to get exclusive use of the home. Plan quietly, avoid lovebusters. i feel like I am love busting all over the place. I have packed his things up and they are sitting in the living room, i have asked him to leave while the kids were in shouting distance. I don't think he will think i have been loving and kind.
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See a lawyer first to see how to get exclusive use of the home. Plan quietly, avoid lovebusters. i feel like I am love busting all over the place. I have packed his things up and they are sitting in the living room, i have asked him to leave while the kids were in shouting distance. I don't think he will think i have been loving and kind. The goal is to be FIRM without lovebusting. The kids can be right there with you when you ask him to move out. I would be a broken record and continue to ask him to move out. Let him know this will not work unless he ends his affair and agrees to certain conditions.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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How have you been lovebusting?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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i love busted by calling him names like, an adulterer and a cheater and that he could not live in the house while he was sleeping with another woman, all for the kids to hear. I let myself get emotional, i did calm down, and just continue to pack his things up. he blocked my from putting them on the front porch. i think that might have been damaging to his future relationship with the kids.
i am wavering on the exposure. i am standing firm to him, telling him it was the best way to end the affair. but i venting to you all wondering if telling some people did not help. I am also wavering on the NC. Not to him, but we are seeing a counselor tomorrow and he is willing to hear if a counselor agrees that the NC is a good idea. I need some help stating my case about the NC.
Last edited by Mediamom; 09/22/13 12:47 PM.
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i love busted by calling him names like, an adulterer and a cheater and that he could not live in the house while he was sleeping with another woman, all for the kids to hear. I let myself get emotional, i did calm down, and just continue to pack his things up. he blocked my from putting them on the front porch. i think that might have been damaging to his future relationship with the kids.
i am wavering on the exposure. i am standing firm to him, telling him it was the best way to end the affair. but i venting to you all wondering if telling some people did not help. I am also wavering on the NC. Not to him, but we are seeing a counselor tomorrow and he is willing to hear if a counselor agrees that the NC is a good idea. I need some help stating my case about the NC. And if the counselor doesn't agree that NC is a good idea, she will validate his position and then you are finished. This will be hopeless. Counselors are a disaster when there is an affair because they have no earthly idea of the dynamics of an affair. They don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and have an 84% failure rate. What will you do when the "counselor" says it is ok for him to continue his affair? What will you do if the counselor tells you both that exposure was a mistake? What is your plan if she validates his fog? [a very real possibility that we see all the time]
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I need some help stating my case about the NC. No you do not. You are passing the buck because you won't take ownership. He knows you are not serious. If you won't back up your own position, then you can't expect others to do it for you, and you certainly cannot expect him to EVER take you seriously. All you are doing with this strategy is negating the very small leverage you DO HAVE.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I am also wavering on the NC. Not to him, but we are seeing a counselor tomorrow and he is willing to hear if a counselor agrees that the NC is a good idea. Do you SERIOUSLY need to see a counselor to find out if no contact with his OW is a "good idea?" Are you kidding me, Madam? The problem here is not no contact OR exposure, it is that you won't MAN UP and take this bull by the horns.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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not sure what to do. if i refuse to go to counseling then i am right back where i started which is ending this marriage. if we go and the counselor validates his feelings then i am screwed and this marriage is over.
just for my own argument: the purpose of the NC is to document that the affair is over?
not sure how to act in the house if he won't leave. do i talk to him or ignore him except when it comes to the kids or finances. a complicating factor is that my sister lives with us. he has always liked her but now is saying she has to leave, this is his house. She has always liked him but now has lost respect for him and he knows it, so he says that she is trouble for our marriage. I agree that she needs to be respectful towards him. and she is but he found a text where she called him a not so nice name. she apologized and said she was just upset for me. do i kick her out to save our marriage?
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i am wavering on the exposure. But you've already done it, right? What is there to waver on? i am standing firm to him, telling him it was the best way to end the affair. Why? Why are you talking to him about it at all? Am I wasting my time posting to you? What good does it do to explain that you shouldn't discuss exposure with him if you're just going to discuss it with him anyway and blog about the discussions here?
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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not sure what to do. if i refuse to go to counseling then i am right back where i started which is ending this marriage. if we go and the counselor validates his feelings then i am screwed and this marriage is over. We are try8ing to SAVE your marriage. The steps we are giving you are from Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders. WE HAVE SAVED OUR OWN MARRIAGES USING THESE STEPS. There are no guarantees but the steps we are giving you are the BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage. But if you go to a "counselor" you are taking a great risk with your marriage. And the reasons you have given for going to a counselor are only because YOU don't want to take a stand and want someone else to do it for you. A counselor is very unlikely to take any stand. A more likely scenario is for her to ask your husband what he wants to do - not having any comprehension of the fog - and then helping him get what he wants. Even if that means divorce! just for my own argument: the purpose of the NC is to document that the affair is over? The purpose is to tell the OW to stay away. If the affair is REALLY OVER then he should be jumping at the chance. This is a good will gesture TO YOU. Do you NOT WANT him to send a letter? Really?? I don't understand why you are asking this unless you are caving to the manipulative pressure of a wayward. Is that a good reason to change and question your stance? The fact that he won't do it should indicate to you that his affair is NOT OVER. Otherwise, why would he care? not sure how to act in the house if he won't leave. do i talk to him or ignore him except when it comes to the kids or finances. a complicating factor is that my sister lives with us. he has always liked her but now is saying she has to leave, this is his house. She has always liked him but now has lost respect for him and he knows it, so he says that she is trouble for our marriage. I agree that she needs to be respectful towards him. and she is but he found a text where she called him a not so nice name. she apologized and said she was just upset for me. do i kick her out to save our marriage? It will not save your marriage to kick her out. I would be polite but FIRM with him and continue to ask him to move out. Tell him this will lead to divorce if he won't meet these conditions. Do you live in a state where adultery is taken into account in divorces?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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MM, if you will not hold him accountable, then there will be no accountability AT ALL. He will be much more likely to dismiss the advice of any counselor *IF* she tells him something he doesn't want to do. That is a big IF because she is unlikely to do that anyway. She is more likely to help him get what he wants.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[ just for my own argument: the purpose of the NC is to document that the affair is over? There is nothing to ARGUE about! You don't argue at all. These steps are non negotiable. He either does them or he doesn't. You don't negotiate. You set him down and have this conversation: When things die down somewhat, it is important that you present a PLAN to your WS for recovery. The next step is to lead your marriage out of the ditch.
First step is to DEMAND your spouse end the affair.
Originally Posted By: Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
Ask him/her to send a no contact letter to the OP that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA]
Set her down and explain to her that you want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and that you won�t stay in a loveless marriage. Tell her you are willing to give her an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:
1. end all contact with the OM for life
2. no more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle
3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc
4. no more opposite sex friendships
5. complete honesty about her affair<s> � passing a polygraph
6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.
Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in her approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.
Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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To reconcile, your sister needs to move. Not that she has necessarily done anything wrong. But you and your H will need your home to yourselves. While he refuses to meet your conditions, I'm not so sure. I'll let other posters weigh in on that. It doesn't seem like he should be setting the rules, but it might be better if for your home to be where he wants to be, even as you demand he leave. I'm curious about WH finding you sis text. Is he snooping on her???? What's up with that? 
Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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thank you all for weighing in. i am letting myself be manipulated by him, it is a weakness that has caused me to get here in the first place. I am listening to you all and doing my best to stick to your advice. to him, i either let him rant about the exposure and offer him something or i walk away, but i can't help it, i feel sorry for him when he is so upset about this exposure.
he is a lawyer so is very good at the gift of arguing a point. so when i tell him i need an NC or move out, his answer is, the usual babble, but he does it really well.
i keep coming back here for support and i always feel stronger after reading all of your words of encouragement and advice.
as far as his snooping is concerned, the night that i confronted him, he came back to bed for the first time in months. but we were discussing the NC in his room just prior, which is next to my sisters room. so i went up to bed and he followed me. she heard me talking to him and she texted me about him saying what you are all saying that he is not giving up the OW.
can anyone say reality show?
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thank you all for weighing in. i am letting myself be manipulated by him, it is a weakness that has caused me to get here in the first place. Bingo!! You are squandering your only chance to save your marriage by allowing yourself to be manipulated by a WAYWARD. When you do this, you lose complete control of the situation. Stop talking about counseling and stick to your guns. BE A BROKEN RECORD and tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage" and just go down the list. Dont' argue, don't negotiate. Just say "If you refuse to do these things this will lead to divorce." No argument, no nothing. If he argues, just say "I guess that is your decision. I will proceed accordingly!" Don't argue, don't debate. Do you live in a no fault divorce state?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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as far as his snooping is concerned, the night that i confronted him, he came back to bed for the first time in months. but we were discussing the NC in his room just prior, which is next to my sisters room. so i went up to bed and he followed me. she heard me talking to him and she texted me about him saying what you are all saying that he is not giving up the OW. So he reads your texts? That's good! He should have no problem giving you access to his messages. I'd get a lawyer and file for D. That may get him out of the house, or ordered to provide support. Your atty can keep it slow and you can back off the D if your WH agrees to your terms for Recovery. As far as H Hectoring you about NC. Another option for cutting off the abusive fog babble might be to join your sis in another room. Apparently he doesn't enjoy looking bad in front of her
Me 58: FWH (NC 32 yr), W 60, married 36 yr, DD 32
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Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through hell. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?
In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.
FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.
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i had a really good moment today. first i spoke to my kids and apologized for my emotional outburst, i told them we both love them, but i am adamant that daddy needs to leave. then, whenever my WH brought up things he needed to stay, i told him i would work on all of that, but he needed to write the NC. he started babbling again. kindly, i asked him to keep his thoughts to himself, he can wrestle with that by himself, but if he doesn't write one, he must go. i remained calm, firm, and in control. its funny, the more firm I am about my need, the more he seems to consider it.
we were alone in the car for a bit (errands for the house), and he said that exposure is dangerous for the kids as they will hear about this from others and make them feel badly. i said i don't believe that is true, the affair is the bad thing, not hearing about it. I also gave him a suggestion for repairing his relationship with the kids which he feels i damaged by my outburst today, and that is he can apologize for the affair and for hurting them. he said he already apologized for hurting them but would not apologize for the affair "in case he starts seeing her again if we don't work out" . i told him not taking responsibility for the affair just sounds like excuses then to the kids. staying firm
to answer some questions: we are a no fault divorce state. and you are correct doesnt like looking bad
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