Have you ever emailed Dr. Harley?

Will you and your Husband be on the show?

awe LongWay, sorry to hear that your libido dropped like that. I can't imagine what that must have felt like for you since your Recovery with your Hubby has been going so well.

Yes to taking the testosterone cream. Good for you for learning so much about it and then finding a doctor to help you. You and your H definitely deserve to have great (and positive!) SF.

You all help SO many people on here, and pass on your knowledge, that really it does my heart so great to read stories that have not only a light at the end of the tunnel, BUT seem to land you in M's that are better than you ever imagined. That's what we want!

I have to ask (kindly) why everyone keeps mentioning calling in to get the Harley's free help? We definitely don't mind paying as we figure that we are paying for their longstanding experience on proven techniques.

Neither H nor I are comfortable being on the radio show at this point, but maybe there is something that we are missing due to this chaotic situation? I know that I am definitely guilty of not seeing the forest for the trees, so if there is something else that you think that we can gain by calling to speak with Joyce, please let me know.

We figured that once we can afford to upgrade our purchase, and once we have the coach and access to the weekend boards, that we can go over the little day-to-day points then. Feel free to hit me with a 2x4 if we aren't thinking straight on this. Thanks!

We only mention his free help because it's so easy and convenient to get advice straight from Dr. Harley.

All it takes is to send an email. Nothing better.

BlindSighted;

I have written to the radio show several times. I had two emails read and answered on the show, and my FWH and I were on-air callers once. Every time, it amazes me how Dr. Harley can cut to the EXACT thing we needed to hear, provide the EXACT path we needed to follow at that moment.

This focus helped us:
1/ Immediately launch our actions in the most beneficial manner,
WITHOUT
2/ Either of us "educating" the other,
AND
3/ Gave us a touchstone, when we re-listen to that program. (Surprising what you miss sometimes, especially when emotions run high.)

As an small benefit, we know we are helping others who might be in a similar situation.

We're now in the online program, with access to the private forum, so we email Dr. Harley directly when either of us has a question or hits a snag.

Both are great resources on the recovery road. But if you aren't able to be in the online program yet, don't pass up the golden opportunity to get advice directly from Dr. Harley, either as an emailer or caller to the show.

The reason we have suggested emailing the Harleys is because they offer such wonderful professional and kind help. They are so respectful and so knowledgeable and have helped thousands of people. They do everything possible to put callers at ease.

Because your H's A was long-term, Dr. Harley may very well have something more to offer you with his expertise than can be offered on this forum and even with his program.

If you are not yet comfortable with calling in, I hope you can both listen to the show every day.

You all make some good points. I can see the value of having someone to cut to the chase much quicker than we can. I will bring it up with H again tonight and see what he thinks.

Yes, LongWay, we do listen to the Radio Show. Not every day, but we do save all of the links that we find in these forums, and we listen separately and together sometimes too. It fuels a lot of IC.

Working on recovery is the hardest thing that I've ever faced. I have to be so vulnerable to the one who hurt me greater than anyone ever has in my life. But if I'm not willing to be vulnerable, then I'm staying in the withdrawn state and he can't fill up my LoveBank. Once I am vulnerable though and go to the conflict state, then I have to fight AOs.

The "trouble" with going to the conflict state (for me) is that it seems that when I feel withdrawn, I can forget the hurt. That is the most comfortable state for me of course. Once I pop back into conflict, that hurt hits me again like a tsunami. The ever-present goal is to get me to the Romantic Love threshhold, and then I am trusting this program that I will not feel this anguish.

We are almost finished with watching the online program. We have only the bottom five modules left to do before we actually start the course.
From watching online, we have figured out that we have more LoveBusters to work on. It's tough(er) to recognize the selfish demands than it is to see the disrespectful judgements and angry outbursts.

We are already learning (or I should say suspecting, and trying to work our way into it) that instead of us both working separately on our respective issues (my AO, his IB), that we can talk about it daily and then POJA ideas ahead of time too so we can help each other a bit more with tangible help, rather than all of the emotions creeping in independently when we are trying and yet feeling frustration. <---this is just a hunch on our parts, but we're kind of aiming for that to see if it helps.

I do have to say that I had a rough couple of days, but today is better. I went to the dentist on Tuesday and I think that maybe the epinephrine from the novocaine set me over the edge emotionally (couldn't relax). I took another Rollercoaster ride. For the last two days, I felt certain that I could not stay in this M. Last evening, H and I had a wonderful time, and so today I feel positive again.

From reading here, reading the books, and doing the online program, I am starting to learn that I can work towards not reacting to the lows, and instead can remind myself that I WILL come back up to the top of the Rollercoaster. I hope that more will make sense soon because that will be very helpful for me, me-thinks.

Blindsighted2013,

I am amazed at how well you can articulate the agonizing dilemmas of recovery and how well you are logically working out the emotions you are encountering.

YES, recovery from your H's affair will be the hardest thing you will ever go through. And I can't believe I am saying this to a woman who underwent major cancer surgery a year ago.

I went through the exact same conflicts about being vulnerable. I did not want to be vulnerable either. Yet, without vulnerability, the love bank is closed. It's very hard to be open to love, because it means being open to hurt.

It's normal to flip from wanting to recover the marriage to wanting to leave. I wanted to just disappear and not exist anymore (which isn't the same thing as being suicidal.)

I did as you are now doing - trusted that if we followed the MB plan, it would work and somehow, we would come out the other side of the excruciatingly long tunnel whole again. But MB brings an upside to the horror of adultery. MB will cause your marriage to be much much better than it ever was before.

You and your H are looking at the videos and then at your pre-A marriage and realizing that it wasn't as great as you each thought it was. We had the same realization. We'd listen to the audio tapes and the radio shows and again and again realize we hadn't been doing POJA or meeting important ENs. Love-busting here and there. Too much time apart. Too independent.

Just keep learning and doing and practicing.

How is your H doing? Is he "all in" this with you?

How does love come back? Has anyone else on here felt a fleeting spark? I have once before, and I just felt it again tonight. It's wonderful!

Best that I can describe is my heart felt suddenly lighter when I thought of H, and I felt so much hope. It was gone quickly, but it was definitely there.

Would love to hear if others have felt the same.

LWFH, THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for your responses to my posts. Words don't do justice for how much your support, validation, and general sharing mean to both of us.

More reply when I have more time, but I wanted to come online and share my "spark" and also say THANK YOU!

Your LB balance is at the romantic love threshold. That is why you are feeling the "spark". As more LB deposits are made, you will cross the threshold permanently and be in love continuously. Your experience is very normal.

WOW!!! I had a hunch that must be it, but I couldn't imagine how I could feel that just 17 weeks after D-Day.

It feels odd, definitely not like it ever did before...almost like mental emotion that grabs my attention, rather than heart (head over heels) emotion. My description probably doesn't make a lot of sense, but it's not something that I remember ever feeling before. My H says that we have to turn it into a flame thrower now lol.


THANK YOU for the compliment, it totally made my day (and weekend!). Your words help me to stay motivated. To read that it sounds like I am "logical" at anything right now just blew me away.


This was tremendously valuable for me to read this. Validation that I'm on the right track, ya know? Since it feels so awful to be vulnerable, then that is the exact opposite of what we naturally want to do. But it's what we need to do.


I think so that I don't kill everyone's eyeballs, I am going to make a separate post to answer this question. It will follow shortly.

FINALLY....finally....finally....I am starting to cautiously believe that he may be all in.

LWFH, at first (once we started doing MB), we realized that there was sooooo much IB from H, and resentment spurred DJs and AOs from me, that it took every ounce of my remaining stamina to stay aware of my mental gut feelings, just so that I could complain about each and every thing that came up re: his IB and also so that my complaints didn't build up into AOs.

TMI warning: What I finally learned to do (once I practiced learning what it FEELS like to be relaxed) is be aware of when I got that pain in my gutt (intestinal problems from my surgery not healing enough prior to D-Day). I started using that pain to alert me to when something rubbed me wrong and I started recognizing those red flags.

Some little, some big things. Each incident would bowl me over unless H immediately addressed the issue with me and we took the time ASAP to POJA.

He is GETTING IT! I can feel it now. For instance, we came home yesterday and had a game plan that he would do two maintenance things outside the house, while I did two inside the house, and then we would meet together for IC and SF.

I was long done with my things and I noticed that he was outside on a ladder changing spot lights. Ummm.....great that he noticed that they needed changed, but NOT what we had just agreed to and planned for.

I felt instantly sooo sad and tired. Pre-D-Day, I would have been ecstatic that he was taking initiative like this. Post-D-Day it irritates the heck out of me because every single little IB screams in my head that we will never recover. It's that insta-negative attitude that seems to be trauma from D-Day. All or Nothing thinking, kwim?

Well blow me over with a feather!!! Not too long after I noticed the ladder, in walks H and says to me "uh-oh...I just realized that I had IB. I saw that the spotlights needed changed, and I did them without coming in to talk about it. I know that you're sitting in here waiting for me. I'm sorry, that was not thoughtful of me."

OH MY BOB, I was speechless I tell ya! I figure that if he is getting it with the little things, that is huge!

We POJA'd right on the spot, AND we enthusiastically decided that since the ladder was already out, he would clean out the gutters while I made dinner, and then we would spend our UA time together. And we did.

Another example, we went to a public event on Saturday. I still do not handle public well and triggers were everywhere. Someone played a song that used to be our song. Someone else brought up how so and so is getting divorced because her hubby was cheating. UGH, it was awful.

H had his arm around me, or held my hand once he realized what was going on. We got out of there pronto.

He apologized to me over and over because HE felt that he should have planned for those triggers and that HE didn't feel that he kept me safe. He even said that "he" put me in a bad position and did not protect me. That was huge to me because I don't feel that he ever felt the need to "protect" me before now during 33 yrs of M.

Again, I was speechless! But I did process it and we POJA'd it yesterday. I told him that it is up to both of us to think ahead and plan for these things (not just him). We have a new "us" now, and things will never be the same, so for the foreseeable future, we HAVE to have a plan-B for everything. Big lesson learned.

We've never BOTH of us been so interdependent in our lives. YAY!

I know that it's still early in our R, and that we will take steps back. I also know that I can come here and talk about stuff. THANK YOU so much for all of the help that these forums offer. I absolutely know that we wouldn't even be on the road to R yet without this forum.

Also...I did bring up emailing the Harley's, and H is open to it now. So we will probably do that at some point this week.

Any idea on how we can deal with FAMILY triggers from the past?

Now that I am learning to feel a bit human again by focusing only on the present and the future, I am finding that I can *not* stand to think of or speak of the past.

The trouble with this is that our adult daughters reminisce about our family history. My Dad was just over today and fondly talking about stuff that went on a few years ago.

Any thought of the past at all sends me into an "I can't stand the pain" mode. H had a 12 year A, so there is quite a bit of past that I don't want to think about.

So far I've dealt with that yuck by thinking of the Stop Sign, or other techniques from the "dealing with triggers thread".

But what to do when people continue on talking about such a fond memory for them while I am wilting inside? How do I say that I am not comfortable with talking about that? I can easily say "I'm not comfortable talking about that" to acquaintances, but our daughters and my father....this was THEIR life too...

Anyone else think of some fabulous way to deal with things like this?

blindsighted, I would just tell them it is painful to you. They surely would not want you to sit there in pain. They can still discuss their pasts, but it would be thoughtful of them to not do it around you.

Are there any other triggers?

Hi Melody,

Do I have the right to expect them to not speak of their pasts around me? Our 29 year old still lives near us and I guess I can give it a shot gently suggesting that we change the subject. Our 26 year old lives in another state and she is the one that can quite mushy with missing home.

They have both spoken to me recently at how they miss our family get-togethers. We always had everything for the extended family at our house and that hasn't happened in a year because of my illness, and now it won't be happening this year either because of "it". We didn't have Memorial Day, 4th of July, or Labor Day, and we won't be having Thanksgiving. Maybe Christmas...I'll see how I feel by then. But anyway, that is causing a "split" in our extended family a little bit, and that is what upsets our girls. The traditions that they grew up with have suddenly disappeared, kwim?

My Dad is 81 and is having surgery on Monday. I get it, he's afraid, and so he was letting me know what matters to him. I just wilted as I listened to how proud he is of my H and I, ugh. I decided not to expose to Dad because he has had way too much grief and turmoil in these past years. I am willing to feel pain to protect my Dad. He's got a tad of dementia and it's usually easier to divert him. I just thought that maybe someone had some tried and true verbiage to use in such instances.

H and I are both getting pretty good at recognizing other triggers and then avoiding or removing them. We are still working on saving for the coaching program (we already have the program with the online workshop and the lesson plan).

H is doing anything and everything that I ask for to make me feel better, but as time goes on I am getting a bit more careful asking for things....Dr. Harley spoke in the online seminar about creating a fulfilling life for BOTH of us....and I am realizing that there is much about this life that I didn't like, irregardless of D-Day. So to me, some of that stuff is not a "trigger" from the A, but a symptom of just how SEPARATE our lives had become.

We are still new to this Melody, and H still screws up often with small IB. For instance, the other night we put in a new kitchen counter for our adult daughter. We had met there separately and I had to park around the block.

When we were done with the install, we walked out and he got into his car and was just going to be fine with me walking around the block in a secluded area in the dark to get my car. My daughter caught it and told her boyfriend to walk me to my car, and H STILL didn't get it that HE should walk me to my car and then drive back with me to drop him at his car. As soon as I pointed it out, he honestly felt like carp and kept apologizing all night. That's good.

I share in fault for not expecting to be treated special by him for so many years. We were not interdependent at all and we are both babies learning this. I now realize how it is that I WAS totally blindsighted by the A and had no clue that it was going on. It pains me to see the layers and layers unfold as we learn more about Marriage Builders. That's a good thing too though, right?

THANK YOU Melody for all that you do for this forum!

They have both spoken to me recently at how they miss our family get-togethers. We always had everything for the extended family at our house and that hasn't happened in a year because of my illness, and now it won't be happening this year either because of "it". We didn't have Memorial Day, 4th of July, or Labor Day, and we won't be having Thanksgiving. Maybe Christmas...I'll see how I feel by then. But anyway, that is causing a "split" in our extended family a little bit, and that is what upsets our girls. The traditions that they grew up with have suddenly disappeared, kwim?


This happens when there are no affairs. We try to carry on the traditions. As loved ones leave us they can only be missed.


My Dad is 81 and is having surgery on Monday. I get it, he's afraid, and so he was letting me know what matters to him. I just wilted as I listened to how proud he is of my H and I, ugh. I decided not to expose to Dad because he has had way too much grief and turmoil in these past years. I am willing to feel pain to protect my Dad. He's got a tad of dementia and it's usually easier to divert him. I just thought that maybe someone had some tried and true verbiage to use in such instances.


Your dads age and health make it in my opinion best to never tell him.

You have a right to tell anyone when they do something that hurts you. My own son would feel terrible if he unknowingly did something to hurt me and vice versa. So tell them how much it hurts you. There is no reason not to. They don't want to hurt their momma!


I wouldn't call that IB, but it sure is thoughtless. I am very glad you pointed this out to him!! You did good! He can learn to be thoughtful. My DH has become a very thoughtful, sweet man over the years. I am so amazed. He just loves to please me. Be sure and praise him when he gets it right!


You very much understand part of the problem! I did the same thing and once I raised the bar and made it clear that the price of admission to the "princess" has raised, he met the challenge! Of course, he didn't do that out of a sense of duty but because I was successfully meeting his needs. That sure was a motivator..


And thank you too!! I see all the awesome posts you write and am so happy you are here.

H and I are having a problem with Radical Honesty. I would appreciate some opinions please.

I am remembering things that I did prior to his A timeline. They are things that I "would not want my H to know", and so I feel the need to tell him.

After I found out about his A, I DID come clean and admit to my stuff. Horrid stuff, definitely self and M destructive.

I had been on psychotropic drugs that were not monitored correctly, and much of that time period 14 years ago (about 2 years pre H affair) is a blur for me, but as I work at it, I am remembering more.

I WANT to tell him what I am remembering. I want him to know the ugliest of me and know that he still loves me.

H doesn't want to go back there. I mean not at ALL. Last night I asked for his help remembering, and he said "WHY do you want to go back there? Dr. Harley says to focus on the present and the future". He did not have an AO, and he did say that he was willing if I insist, but that he thinks that it will detrimental to me and to us, and that he is not enthusiastic at all about going back there again.

So I changed the subject and figured that I would ask all of you.

We both have realized that our lives were one constant AO back then. I mean BAD BAD BAD, we were indescribably horrible to each other. We've both agreed that if we had not gone into our own corners and lived our own lives, that we would certainly have been divorced (we didn't know about MB back then).

Just like I would be very hurt if H had told me MORE of the details than I asked for about his A....is this similar and I should respect his wishes to not go there?

I do realize that it was H's worst time of his life, and he doesn't want to re-visit it again. It's gutt-wrenching for me also, because my memories are not clear and so it is literally hurting my head trying to recall stuff that I hated and buried about myself from so long ago. But I also do NOT want to sabotage our present and future recovery by not being RH with him.

As for how we are doing now? We are on Lesson 2 in the MB course. I am feeling much much better and stronger each day. Our AOs seem to be a thing of the past. H said last night that he wants to be the man that I married again. And I answered him that he is already better than the man that I married.


HAHAHAHA Melody, I love it! Admission to the "princess"!

I am always in awe of how you put things so eloquently Melody.

I told H some fill-in-the-gap stuff RH last evening, and then he pointed out that perhaps I am trying to work hard so as to justify a "cause" for his having an A, to somehow go back and reconstruct what was the straw that broke the camel's back, kwim?

H reminded me that there is no justifiable reason...and so therefore no need for me to force myself to remember all of my sins from so long ago. Awe! ....LB$$$

So I'm going to do my best to continue looking forward. I felt love last night and said ILU for the first time in almost 5 months. It felt scary but great!

Glad to hear that you will look forward. I think that is best.

I wouldn't understand a need to try to strain to remember stuff. If you remember something that is significant I would tell him (historical honesty), but for the most part, I wouldn't dwell there!