Thanks MadMindMonkey,

Your post is encouraging and definitely what I needed to hear to keep focus in this difficult time. Your message is well received and I'll keep pushing forward...

Priority #1. Rule out an affair. If there is none then �

If she agreed to counseling will she let you pick the counselor?

I think it would be great if you scheduled an appt with Dr Chalmers (or Steve). They can help you get your W on board with MB counseling.

One selling point they may have you propose to her is the way the sessions are conducted.

The first three or four sessions my W and I had with Jennifer were one-on-one with her. Each of us were able to talk with her and tell her our perspectives without involvement/interruption of the other. I liked this because I was able to talk with Jennifer first and provide what I felt was our situation.

This may be something your W would like to hear. It may be enticing for her knowing she�ll be able to say whatever she wants without you being present. They will do what they can one-on-one with your W and you�ll focus on your assignments. If your W is saying she doesn�t want to do any work I suspect Jennifer or Steve will know how to work with that. They will become your ally showing her the many benefits of recovering her M.

DO NOT sign up with any MC or pastor unless you know for a fact they follow the MB principles.

It is widely accepted around here that most MCs are nothing but divorce facilitators. You'll find yourself alone in a 2 against 1 battle.

Good Morning All,

It is with a devestated heart that I contact you all today. I have confirmed a PA on Tuesday. Using my ipod to investigate in my home I was able to record a conversation between my W and her bestfriend. (The one that is going through her own R problems and has encouraged this affair.) I came home from work and she said she had to run a few errands. While she was out I took care of our kids and snuck away to check the file I recorded during work. My W confided that she thought that she was pregnant by the OM. In her efforts to confirm she went to get a pregnancy test to check (all planned out with this girlfriend) while telling me she was grocery shopping. Unfortunately I did not obtain the person's name and in my emotional state talked to her and exposed my knowledge of the affair. (Did I make a mistake in confronting her without all of the facts investigated?)

As soon as she arrived she found me head in hand and I told her that we needed to talk. I explained how I knew she had an affair and she proceeded to lie until I confronted her with facts. She claims that it started 1 year ago (Summer of 2012). Tuesday afternoon we had a heartfelt conversation and for the first time had progress. She confided in me that she was ashamed and did not know how to speak to me about it. I asked her if she loved the OM and she stated no. She also told me that she is not pregnant. After having a deep conversation inwhich I cared for her and let her know that I still support her, believe in her, and still have an interest in rebuilding a loving R and M. She agreed and the evening went surprisingly well. She now enthusiastically agreed that we should speak to a counselor to make our R and M better. She also agreed to return to our marital bedroom. This was unfortunately short lived. That night before bed she approached me with AO and enraged. She stated that she had only told one person about possibly being pregnant and the fact that I knew means that I somehow violated her trust and her privacy. This was my biggest fear in snooping on her since part of the man I was had snooped on her before and this is a major issue for her. Tuesday ended losing all of the progress that we made and my W returning to the couch and pissed at me.

Wednesday I was home and our conversation resumed. She wanted to know how I found out and I told her that I learned she purchased a pregnancy test through a PI. (I could not reveal my sources at this time to make sure I get every angle since in her discussion there were contradictions about any recent involvement with the OM.- From my information gathered the A is ongoing and she has not been clear or answered all of my questions asked) My W stated that my actions are controlling. The man I was can be vindictive and that now she is in a situation that I can divorce her and she get nothing. That how through our entire R I've held money over her (it's always been my money and I've had the ability to do things like hire a PI and how I monitor everything that she does- No money of her own) and have been "one-up" on her. She now has told me that she hates me and won't deal with me at all most of the morning. The entire time I met her with calm and understanding and the moment the conversation went this route I ended it. I went outside to handle the leaves which she did come out and we did the cleanup together. Tonight she prepared dinner and we sat and ate as a family. (I did notice that our kids set the table so we'd be next to each other and she moved my plate one space away from her. I just Plan A'd it through dinner and we could talk about other topics with the kids.)

After dinner we did Halloween crafts with the kids however we didn't really interact. Once we got the kids to bed we watched TV together (on opposite sides of the couch) until we both fell asleep. Now we woke up around 2:00am and I took care of some of the household tasks to avoid any issue. Once completed I asked if she would like for us to continue the design of our kid's costumes. Although we started working on them together she went into a separate room to complete different items independently. Once we got through as much as we could she told me she was headed to bed. (My SD room)

I can really use some help. I've been told that I needed to first discover the A which has now been done. The next stage is to expose and stamp out the A. If I expose to friends and family I feel that my W would really hate me. I have now found myself in a situation that I don't know enough about the A or the OM to expose him. Added to the fact that my W now claims she hates me I feel like I'm boxed into a corner. I can continue to investigate but feel that this is giving her justification for trying to leave a controlling man and the more I learn it just confirms her belief that this R is over. If I expose the A I have trouble seeing how this would not come across as vindictive in her eyes.

I'm am now feeling like I've lost my W and my life is spinning out of control.

I'm so sorry for your pain and that you've found out about the affair. Your WW is very foggy and will do and say anything that allows her affair.

You need to find out who OM is. She's been in an affair for over a year. You need to expose this. Your marriage will survive her anger, but not her affair.

Do you have GPS on her vehicle? Does she work? Do you have spyware on her phone?

You need to find out who OM is and kill the affair.

Do you have the book SAA?

I suggest notifying the mods and asking them to move your thread to Surviving an Affair.

You should press on with the program. Don't worry about your foggy wife's reactions right now. In the recovery endgame, her anger will be replaced with a new appreciation for how hard you were willing to fight to keep her. She will see it as a validation of how much you love her.

DM,

I am so sorry to hear this. It appears you are taking it well and still wish to recover you M. That is good. I'm sure that it is not an easy decision to make.

At this point in time you need to do a few things:

#1: Ask the Mods to move your thread to SAA.
#2: Do EXACTLY as the kind posters over on SAA will instruct you to do. Do not adlib the exact points they will give you. Doing so will mean a false recovery and you'll simply harm yourself.
#3: DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY OF YOUR W'S FOGBABBLE. Nor should you concern yourself with a perceived anger that she will demonstrate. She is going through a lot of emotions and it is hard for waywards to live with the poor choices they�ve made. She knows this is going to get out and she�ll want to demonize you in an effort to detract/justify what she did. DO NOT ALTER the advice given to you. You do not know how to fix this and the kind people who will give you advice do. They�ve seen it more than you can count. Those that stray and think they know better fail. Those that don�t have a much better success rate of R. Do a stellar Plan A.

Again I am sorry that this has happened to you. I�ll watch for your posts over on SAA.

You did err in confronting her before you had a name. You can get back on track but you need a name and must expose, nuclear style.

On D-day, my W threatened to separate if I expose OM at work. After the fog lifted, she swears she never said that. I can only imagine your W will go ballistic when you expose, but you have to if you want to save your M.

Good job on not revealing your source. I get that she's mad about the PI, but it's complete fogbabble. You have to trust the forum on this. Once you get her out of the fog, she will thank you for snooping on her and freeing her from this nightmare she created for herself.

Be strong...rooting for you!

DM, the first thing you must do is get the name of the OM and step up your snooping. You have to get good snooping into place since she knows now you are watching. Get his name. Get ahold of the cell phone bills, call her friend, do what you have to do. And do it NOW. Stop wasting time on posting her fogbabble and making Halloween costumes when your marriage is sinking fast. You have a very narrow window of time to get this information and use it to kill the affair.

And don't let her ranting about being "controlling" phase you one bit. It is classic fogbabble that is designed to scare you into submission. She will scream, rant, rave and accuse to get you to back off. It is a PLOY. Do you understand this? It is a trick of shock and awe and you cannot afford to fall for it. You need to be shrewd and savvy right now like James Bond.

Hire a PI today if you have to in order to get the name, contact information, and marital status. Do this ASAP! Once you have this information we will give you a plan of attack to save your marriage.

Good Morning MrAlias, MindMonkey, MelodyLane,

I am sorry that my updates are so far apart. I am still investigating however I told my W that all of my snooping efforts are cancelled. In recordings she doesn't believe me which is understandable. She is using the fact that I hired a PI to find the affair as "her final straw" that she explains to her sister an girlfriend. Now to me she is playing it on the level, agreeing to counseling, but denying that the A is ongoing although I know it is. I suspect that it is her ex and the father of SD 16. In one of the recordings she is trying to make sure SD is not impacted by what is going on. I still don't have enough to fully expose in a nuclear way. I was speaking with her father to expose and my W came in. Didn't get the exposure started or off the ground. Now in other recordings she feels that I'm throwing a tantrum because I'm not getting what I want. (Her coming clean about the OM with complete truthful details...)

I feel like I'm in such a rut right now. Failed early investigation, failed exposure, and my wife trying to secretly move on with a plan to end our M. She does claim that I'm not trying to be her friend, court her, or date her and just expect her to want to work on the M. This is foggable to her friends which I do understand but hurts all the same. I'm not doing well right now but will try to focus on me for a while to get my head together. Her sister (who I thought was a supporter) is in her ear daily and is critical of me. They claim that I pressure her because I have nothing left with our R failing. This may be partially true since I've sacrificed all IB and most outside interactions to make things work. (More financial) I'm now in a better place moneywise to start to do things so I know I need to Plan A and repair my life in case we separate.

I am thinking to continue my investigation for a little longer before considering a PI. This is the part that is so damaging. Clearly trust has been lost on both sides and me checking up on her is a huge negative from the man I was. Anything I do she will feel that I'm trying to be evil, vindictive, or destroy her but I don't see her in that way. She feels that when I get angry I go nuclear so doing this with exposure I have a hard time seeing it helps. I'm not saying that I'm deviating from the advice right now but it clearly doesn't feel like it's getting me anywhere. I checked up on her several years ago which caused a major rift. Now I'm a different man but doing things that don't feel right.

Please help

Checking up on your wife is not a bad thing first and foremost. A Marriage should be honest and transparent with nothing hidden from each other.

It is just fogbabble, my WW said the same thing. I was controlling, she wouldn't live like that, it was ridiculous, it was too much, she isn't a child to be checked up on, etc...

They all say it and it is because they are hiding something. Now that my WW has ended her A and is no longer hiding, emails, texts, pictures, etc guess what? Its no longer a problem, it is a normal part of our day. "Hey, who did you text/email today?" It has come to the point that she gives me an exact list because she knows I'm going to verify and if her answers don't match up then it will be an issue. Long story short, once they don't have something to hide, they don't care that you look.

Edit: Even GPS on her phone, it was a huge deal for my wife. Now, when she has to work late or goes to the store without me she checks in on the GPS on her own. This is something we fought about for weeks and now its no big deal, porbably because she now has nothing to hide. They get over it, is the moral to the story.

Sorry all,

Thursday- Things returned to a new normal after failed exposure; communicating only about the kids initially. Her trying to convice me that exposure was trying to paint her in a negative light and bring other people into our business. Her actively agreeing to look for M counselor through our insurance. Her asking us to focus on issues which are larger right now. (House/Relocation, Kids, then us) Feels like she is just buying time. Her sleeping in SD room but agreeing to return to our marital bedroom;

Friday- Us having a good conversation (I thought) but she then later told her sister that she had to refocus us on the most important issues. Complaining to her sister that all I have is this R which is why I'm behaving the way I am. We were together most of the day and had a fun time shopping with the kids. She shared that she has a great time with me (to her friends) and that it's the relationship stuff that is so draining.

Saturday- More of the same enjoyable time together. We had a different girlfriend of hers visit as well as her sister. (I only listened to the recordings last night so I was real surprised that her sister knew everything but could pretend so well that nothing was going on.) I will not let on that I know and keep all of my information close since I made this mistake once already and can't afford anymore deviations from the advice I've been given. That night I drank heavy and fell asleep in the kids room on the floor. She got extremely angry at me because we'd agreed that regardless of anything going on we would keep it from the kids. (This was a huge mistake on my part LB but fortunately I wasn't drunk or acted in a manner for the kids to know. They thought that I was just very tired...)

Sunday- I apologized to my W and my kids for seeing me in that way. Our day went well as we did fun things together and with the kids all day. I am now working on a super Plan A and will stop all drinking for the time being. I also started smoking again (stress) which I will quit cold turkey. (2 years of non-smoking erased by the discovery of this A)

Monday- Working a half day right now and have my recording going to get the real situation of what is going on. Current mindstate is not dark but not desperate as yet. I'm still holding on to hope that our R can recover somehow. My wife feels that I'm dillusional as to what's going on and just how bad our R got. I'm not sure why learning from past mistakes, putting her first, being a better person, and thinking this is a side of me she hasn't seen in several years is dillusional. I am not sure how we get past the fact that she doesn't trust me. Also by her statements and behavior I can't see her getting to the point that she will remove all passwords or follow the conditions of RH.

Quick Question:

I scanned your thread and I couldn't find if your WW was previously married to SD father. This is the supposed OM, right?

Oh, and put those smokes down. I started back up after A. Now I just have one one annoying habit for my W.

Good Morning MindMonkey,

My WW was not previously married. Her involvement with him ended when SD was a baby. I came on the scene when SD was 2 1/2. He's been an absent father the entire time till 2009. Gave a song and dance about wanting to be a better father and a part of SD's life. This was right before the time (May 2010) that I went to work in Japan. The entire time I was gone it appears he would "visit". I'm pretty sure that he's the OM and have been continuing my investigation. This A seems so deep (3 yrs) it it is him which is discouraging.

I've demanded that the A be ended while we are M so now we are at the point where we don't speak. Not sure how long this will last.

The affair may be long lasting, but think about it. She is still in your house isn't she? Why do you think that is? Do you really think the OM saw the light all of a sudden.?
I seriously doubt if he is planning to be a step father to your children. If she hasn't packed and ridden into the horizon with him after 3 years he is probably a cake eater as well as she is one.
Dr Harley says that woman tend to give their heart to one man at a time.

She may still tell her sister he is princd charming, but in the back of her head she k ows that he is not. This is your plan A chance to prove to her that you are the man who wants her and is prepared to fight for his family.

The other man has never provided her with anything, but with cheap words.

Good Afternoon happyheart, All,

I have successfully uncovered that the OM is infact SD's biological father. I have also determined that the A has been ongoing despite my return via phone calls, texts, and pictures. The fact that it is him hits both ways. For me there is a level of betrayal having been allowed to reenter our lives (and that of SD) only for this to take place. I am extremely angry inside however have been maintaining a strong Plan A with my wife and have not confronted the OM as yet. I am really trying to work on my temper to avoid an altercation. This information also helps me since the OM is hated by most of her friends and family for being an absentee father so exposure of the A will now definitely kill it I believe. I spoke to my W explaining my complete knowledge of the OM.

I explained to her that I would still be willing to work on our R. If she wants to be with him that she should go to be with him. I also informed my W that I would never support the OM having involvement with DS or twin DD's. (It would be difficult to prevent contact with SD) I believe that my W had the idea that the A would be maintained in secret, try to end our M, and then have him around our kids like everything was ok. (knowledge learned from Surviving An Affair articles)

Now she is showing open signs of remorse and is interested in going to counseling to fix our M. (The fact that I know and Plan A'd instead of being emotional and flipping out with AO, DJ, or other helped the turnaround.) She is still not being truthful about the A however I have not let her know just how much I truly know of what has been going on. She is claiming that it started last summer and again this summer and no feelings are involved. (I have recordings where she says she loves him and other horrible discoveries yet when directly asked she chooses to lie.) I am working to determine the OM true marital status and contact information for his wife or partner too. I do know that the OM partner is a lawyer and that they are undergoing issues which I bet this A plays a part too.

Once I have the needed information is this the time to go nuclear?

All,

Notable points:

Affair started a year ago: based on private discussions with her friends

OM info obtained: Name, number, mother's address. His physical address, marital status, etc I am still searching for. In the process of moving out to apartment from wife/girlfriend.

WW: Claims to be in love with OM but denies when asked; has sent texts, calls, and photos when I am not around. (No knowledge that I know). Is aware that I know who this OM is and I feel is scrambling.

Investigation methods: Car VAR, iPod in home recording (AudioMemos app); no way into phone for detailed investigation of true A details.

Friends: She has told all of her friends that our R is over and that she cheated on me last year. Only a few (best friend and sister) know that it is ongoing. W claims that only BF knows about the A. (A lie)

10/27: (11:00pm) Knowledge of OM informed to wife from previous post.

10/28: (Current) W had to do shopping at the mall. Most likely to coordinate the story with OM via phone or ask advice from BF. Car VAR should keep me informed...

Yes when you've got the info you go nuclear. Refresh yourself on Mel's exposure thread to make sure you've got all your ducks in a row. Lay off the LBs, and brace yourself for the wild ride about to happen. Good Luck.

Good Morning Mijunleigh,

Could you please post a link to Mel's exposure thread. I need to doublecheck and I could not find it.

All,

I have stopped committing most LB's now. Stopped the smoking and drinking again, working on being a model husband. The only complaint right now is that I fall asleep in the living room instead of going to bed which I am working on. I am now trying to research OM's employment status. He is currently a train driver/conductor for MTA in New York City. Conductors are responsible for the lives of millions of riders so I imagine they must have a integrity or morality clause to their employment. Trying to find their code of conduct to add to the exposure. I could use all the exposure help possible so any pointers, advice, or detailed plan would be greatly appreciated.