TheRoad,

You go over the top to easy. Her family never lied. I never asked them anything.

To withhold such information and pretend to be family is cruel, it's one of the uglier sides of infidelity in that witness keep their mouth shut.

Get off the dime and ask them.

God Bless
Gamma

Radio Clip
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

BrainHurts,

Thanks for posting those shows. I think it was from awhile back, perhaps a rebroadcast?

I don't know if you noticed, but "Tims" WW went under hypnotherapy to rebuild the timeline of her affair from 15 years ago. So the BH probably felt he has 85% or more of the information he wants.

Dr Harley also reconstructed the WWs timeline.

If I had even the outline and non-contradictory stories I might give up the hunt. Now there is a non-linear weighting to the details, for example the sexual details are worth 75% of the total, so I might stop if I just got those. Right now it's not above the threshold of acceptability.

God Bless
Gamma

It's from the 9-09-13 show that I think LifetimeLearner mentioned to you.

ML Jr thank you for thinking this would be of interest to me.

My wife misled me. She told me nothing really happened that would upset me. That they only went to a few movies a diner.

Well how she met and left the OM story changed, as it turns out it went to oral, then all the way but only once. As you can see this little bit of info took 25 years to come out. For 35 years I went from believing her initial story. Then something she would do would cause me to recall the past which would cause me to question what she has said that happened in the past. Then a sentence or two would be said and she would say there was nothing else to tell. This trickle truthing took about 24 years. Last attempt by me to get more info was about 4 years ago with a flat out refusal to talk any more about the past.

I have been left so long not knowing and being denied the whole truth I can not settle for less. Why should hearing what my wife would tell me be worse then I could imagine or have read about what other WW's have done.

I agree that bringing up the past will never let one forget the past.

Though spending so much time trying to figure out the past for so long and being frustrated for not getting the whole truth I feel that I will never settle for anything but the whole truth before I can stop talking about the past.

Wanting the truth has kept me from forgetting the past.

And, keep me from forgetting the past.



Dr Harley's advice telling that BH to let the past go comes across to me as him trying to handle this BH. He comes across as my wife has been handling me.

Dr Harley said his wife is being honest with him. Well being honest with Dr H is different then they way she with holds info from her BH. That is not being honest that is lying by omission.

I find it a problem with this WW's honesty. She has two affairs already. She has admitted that when she is not happy in a marriage she will go looking for OM number 3.

Too me that is just a WW admitting that she is a serial cheater. There is no indication that she has changed or working on changing her serial cheating ways.

Dear TheRoad:

I completely agree with this.

My story is somewhat similar - my H lied to me for almost 30 years. When he came clean, he told me about things he had lied about as far back when we were dating in high school; information I had incorporated into my history for almost 30 years.

Because there was so much gaslighting and "truth"-trickling (I have a hard time thinking of trickles as truth), I don't feel I will ever have the real story.

To this day, he claims he never had intercourse with the OW; this is highly unlikely due to the circumstances of the affair.

I have not asked him for a polygraph because I'm not ready to get a divorce.

When I am, then I will.

But, like you, I can only let go of what I KNOW. I still feel compelled to seek out the unknown, and this definitely keeps the past in the present.

Much MB advice hinges on the betrayed spouse having all of their questions about the affair(s) answered.

What do you do when that will NEVER happen?

Good luck -

BV

You do not have to get a divorce because you finally got the whole truth. So not getting a poly does not make sense.

When trying to fill in the missing gaps the pits of affair knowledge can not be forgotten because you need these reference points remembered to get the affair story completed.

So not knowing what a BS needs to know just keeps the affair memories alive. WS's are able to forget what happened because they are not burdened with trying to figure out missing pieces to the story. There are no missing pieces for them.

Brain Hurts, did you answer all of your BH's questions?

Did your BH just accept an overall story line?

Or did you BH require some in depth detail?

Or was your BH the type that had to get every detail heard and he did exactly that?

TheRoad,

This trickle truthing took about 24 years. Last attempt by me to get more info was about 4 years ago with a flat out refusal to talk any more about the past.

There is an insult from infidelity which does not diminish with time but grows with each year that the wayward spouse keeps the lie alive.

One root of the problem is that the wayward spouse, the other person and who knows who else knows the truth and the betrayed spouse does not.

@TheRoad will you eventually divorce your WW?

God Bless
Gamma

Maybe you could select some or all of this well regarded letter that has made the rounds on various infidelity and marriage forums. It was written from a BH to his WW, seeingly in the midst of the recent D-Day, but i am sure you could apply this to your situation that addresses the haunting feelings you have carried for way too many years now.

One way or another, you have to either let go or get enough answers.

But what boundaries and consequences will you steadfastly stick to if you do not get the answers you desire?

If you will not walk away from the marriage, then you eventually need a way to find peace with never fully knowing the entire historical truth. She has NO Reasons to follow through without any consequences.

This i a huge weight that both spouses do not need to continue bearing the weight of around their hearts.

LTL

.

Joseph's Letter

This is a letter from Joseph to his wife. He was a part of a now defunct message forum.

****************************** *******************************

I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly.

No one wants to be forced to 'look' at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge.

You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the 'STUFF' to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down.

To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever 'feel' complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are.

When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important.

Then later when I'm expected to understand the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it.

You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart.

I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together.

It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world.

No.

???

No to what?

You don't want to know the historical truth?

You don't want to initiate a dialogue delving into the past about the affair with your?

You don't like that particular letter, so will not use it?

You don't want to deal with the potential conflict that addressing this issue would possibly encourage?

Or, you truly don't want to resolve the situation and just like continuing venting about it?

Or some other reason that you haven't stated?

Even if it's the 2nd to last one, do you really ever find peace not moving forward?

LTL

It's a response to Gamma: "@TheRoad will you eventually divorce your WW?"

Thank you.

I was confused by the abrupt response.

LTL

Stop jumping to conclusions.

No more flying off the handle.

You will get better work outs other ways.

Have you never noticed that when you click on reply on the very last post on a thread that your post then appears with a little box towards the top upper right side. It indicates that you responded to that post.

Now the post in where I said "No" the upper box indicates that I applied to Gamma. I intentionally hit the reply button on his post box because I wanted to indicate that my post would be directed as a reply to Gamma.

I do not always use that feature though some times after reading a thread I will click on the last post's reply button. Because I just want to reply to the thread. So even though the reply box will indicate a specific poster there was no intent to do so.

I have known about Joseph's letter for many years. I have never used that letter though I have used some of the concepts with my wife on how she knows the whole story and can leave it in the past. I can not leave the story in the past because I am still trying to fill in the gaps.

She shakes her head in that it makes sense but will not fill in the gaps.

I understand her not wanting to recall the past. Her finding it hard to say what happened. How much is it me not wanting to push her to talk because it will hurt her and me knowing what she will say will be painful for me to hear.

Maybe that is why I have been hesitant to have my wife read Joseph's letter.

BrainHurts are you going to leave me hanging here?


Maybe tomorrow I'll send Dr H an email. About the radio show that you linked to me and what I have written here since you posted that link.

TheRoad,

My situation/answers will not help your situation.

I think writing Dr. Harley would be an excellent idea.

Is your wife willing to go on the show with you?

My questions were very general. Those questions were not asking what you told your BH. They are asking how much depth did he require. I was not looking for actual details. Leave me asking it is your right to not answer.