I also feel it's perfectly within your Plan A remit to tell her you find mention of the OM offensive and ask her to not to do it. In counselling or elsewhere.

Just remind her that you expect her to focus on the marriage.

I asked WW about going to the Harley's before for counseling, but she said she "doesn't believe in phone counseling" or something to that effect. She wants it to be face to face. Pretty much any of my ideas with WW seem to be non-starters.

Pius, is there a park, garden, zoo, or pleasant neighborhood nearby where the two of you can go just to take long walks together?

I strongly agree - and this is straight Marriage Builders advice, just as Dr. Harley would give it.

Are you still listening to the radio show? Daily? I keep asking, because it was crucial in recovering my marriage. There were a lot of parts to the puzzle to put together, and the radio show supplied them.

A session alone for you with Dr. Chalmers might be worthwhile - she may be able to help you learn how to get your wife on the phone with her.

If you can afford it, counseling with one of Dr. Harley's children is a great step. I would use that to try to get your wife involved in Dr. Harley's online seminar program.

It's less important to understand where she's coming from than it is to motivate her to follow this program. I would have a meeting with your MC, Pius, and ask her to help save your marriage by persuading your wife to follow this program. Explain to her how this program works and ask her to motivate your wife to go on more dates with you.

It would help if your counselor read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Effective-Mar...p;keywords=effective+marriage+counseling

Here are the links to the UA article and worksheet: UA Time here

I would also ask her to split up your sessions so you don't experience more lovebank withdrawals. Can you take her the article on undivided attention and the UA worksheet and ask her to persuade your wife to try this?

The mission of a good counselor should be getting people to do things they don't want to do. That is what you need now. What you don't need is to sit around talking about your feelings. That is not helpful to your marriage at all!!


There is nothing helpful or positive about hearing your wife's negative thoughts about you and your marriage. You already knew she checked out of the marriage. You don't' need to be bashed over the head with this over and over again. That is a huge lovebuster at a time when you can least afford it.

Pius, has your wife read Surviving an Affair?

Pius,

I�m sorry to hear you�re struggling. I know it can�t be easy. I look for words that can help you gain some perspective and lessen the pain you must be feeling.

You�re W is in the fog. She�s still addicted to the feelings the fantasy brought for her. The POSOM just happened to be a part of that equation. He doesn�t measure up to you. That�s obvious just knowing he�s a fat, unemployed loser living in Daddy�s basement feeding off of vulnerable married women who has a family. She doesn�t see him yet for what he is. She only associates pleasure with him due to the feelings that come with a fantasy. He could have been a toad � well he is a toad but ain�t no Prince Charming.

The person before you is not your W so keep that in mind if she continues to say hurtful things. Fogbabble.

I say this just in case you are feeling down about yourself knowing she choose to have an A with this piece of crap. DO NOT COMPARE YOURSELF to him because her choice to cheat with a dirt bag is not a reflection of the kind of person you are. There is no comparison.

The good news is that once your W comes out of the fog and begins to understand herself why she did what she did she will see how horrible this POSOM really is. She will apologize profusely for her actions. Pius that day will come. You are going to look extremely attractive to her once she comes out of this fog and withdrawal. Please give it some time, give the M a chance to recover.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, MrAlias and all. I know I need to hang in there - I have no other choice really. I just need to lick my wounds and keep going.

To address some others' points, WW did read "Surviving an Affair" but she just wasn't convinced by it. She wasn't convinced that the POJA is good, and that fulfilling each others' needs will produce a feeling of love. For her, she seems very fatalistic about whether she "loves" someone or not and doesn't seem to think it will change, or maybe she thinks it will change spontaneously. Our counselor even brought up the book and started to talk about the love bank, but WW disagreed with that too.

To make matters worse, she has had depression in the past, some of it runs in her family, and that seems to be combining with the withdrawal she's feeling at the loss of POSOM. Several people have advised her to see a psychiatrist to fine tune her antidepression medication, and I think that's what she decided to do. She's currently on Prozac now but obviously that isn't working.

Markos - I'd like to be able to listen to the radio show more but I have more opportunity during the day for reading than listening. However I'm coming up on a four day weekend so I should have some time.

I'm feeling a little better now because WW asked if I would like to go to a Halloween thing with her and some of her friends from high school. It sounds small but she never invites me to do anything with her anymore - it is always me doing the inviting. So to have her ask me to do anything like that is encouraging. Plus if I wasn't going I would have a real problem with her going since they are meeting at a bar and obviously WW has real issues with boundaries with men. If I am going it's a different story of course.

That's great! Use this opportunity to be a great guy around her friends. Be a good listener attentive to her and her friends.

OK, so here's the latest situation. Yesterday WW wanted to go over a female friend's house for dinner. I thought it was a good idea since lately her withdrawal/depression has been so bad she hasn't associated with anyone much. They were going to spend the evening at her house, as I understood it, and then I was going to pick her up from there around midnight. Well, at midnight WW asked if she could stay out longer. As it turned out she and her friend ended up going out "downtown", which I figure means they want to some bars or something. She said something about a band playing at one of the venues. I ended up picking her up at about 3 AM from the friend's house. At least this friend lives nowhere near the POSOM.

I haven't said anything to her about it, but I was a bit disappointed that she didn't inform me ahead of time that they were going out to such locations. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with her at bars and such because I feel WW has poor boundaries with men. Really I would like it if she would avoid all situations where there are unattached men around, if I am not with her. So I was thinking of bringing this up with her, but she is just so sensitive. It seems that there is no way for me to bring up anything "controversial" without her getting upset and being in tears, regardless of how tenderly/moderately my tone is, and regardless of how hard to try to avoid LB's. So, what should I do? Even without bringing anything up, she was tired and hung over and was crying this morning.

That friend is a toxic friend. She is getting or encouraging WW to drink and have GNO's.

That was a TERRIBLE IDEA. Just tell her you are sorry you ever agreed to this and will never do this again. She probably met up with the OM.

Has she always been like this? Do not automatically chalk up tears to equal sadness. I intimately know people who cry easily and purposefully (with tears and snotter and all) just to make you back off and to get their way. That is not to say that you should not bring it respectufully.

Apart from that, she is not a teenager anymore, although she may like to think of herself as one. She is obviously still in the fog. As to the antidepressant medication not working, if the effect has not kicked in after 6-8 weeks of regularly taking them (does she?) she should talk with her doctor for an alnternative prescription.

God bless,

Happyheart

Pius,

You are so caught up in trying to acquiesce to your W and her withdrawal that you are making poor decisions. You have to follow this program. You�re going to have to make some tough calls and tell your W some things that will sound foreign and while she�s in the fog/withdrawn distasteful.

Your W is depressed because she�s in the fog and dealing with the realization of what she did and because she can�t go back to that wayward life addiction. However letting her hang out with single friends that take her to bars isn�t going to put you in her good graces. It is only going to create the independent lifestyle that is going to be the death of your M. You need to keep pushing for an interdependent lifestyle where the fun you two have is with each other. You need to become her source of relief from the rest of the world. Not some other woman who takes her clubbing where there are tons of zero boundary guys around.

This isn�t the direction your M should be going so stop it from happening now. Set a precedent now that says your lives together will be just that � spending time together, having fun together, making all of your decisions together.

Don�t you two have any friends of the marriage who are couples that you can hang out with? If you two aren�t going out alone then you should at least be going out together to meet friends.

She may not agree with what you will be asking of her but at least you are setting the tone for what you will and will not put up with.

Agreed about the interdependant lifestyle. I don't mind if she occasionally visits some of her friends without me, but going to bars and drinking with them makes me uncomfortable for sure. I just don't want her to be around "unattached men" - that is the main thing. As I said I didn't know this was the plan beforehand. I really don't think she was with POSOM because I picked her up from this friend's house who lives a good distance from the POSOM, and who she knows through her brother. If there is a connection between the friend and POSOM, I am not aware of it

Today was actually weird - in a good way. Our interactions bordered on being normal. I was off today for the Columbus Day holiday, and we had a showing of our house at 1 pm, so WW and I cleaned around the house together. Then she actually asked me to go to lunch with her, and to go with her to her friend's house. At lunch we talked about possibly renting our house out instead of selling it, if it doesn't sell soon. I'm feeling optimistic today!

Pius, I have to tell you I have a very bad feeling about this. I think there is a lot going on you don't know about, hence her new "good mood." If she goes out to visit "friends" again, I would be sure and go with her. There is no reason you shouldn't go too.

I will be surprised if the affair has really ended.

Hmm. Well I will keep my eyes open, for sure. I really wish they would come up with that jailbreak for iOS 7 soon so I can put spyware on her phone. At least she still doesn't have a passcode on it and doesn't seem to be worried about leaving it laying around (very different from before). When I did peak at her phone, her texts to her friends seemed to corroborate her version of what happened that evening. Also, though today she was in a good mood, just yesterday her mood was very bad. She seems to be having mood swings - as do I, I guess!

...Also, unlike "before" it no longer seems like she can't stand being around me. Though I know not to trust my instincts, I really don't get the feeling that anything bad is happening. She still seems fully engaged in selling the house, for example. As I said though, I will continue to keep a close watch on things. Of course I would feel even better if she would think about coming back into the bedroom with me, but that is another story!

I think that is why she is leaving the phone lying around. And I also think the reason she is in a good mood is BECAUSE she is in contact with the OM. Hope I am wrong!