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Yup, FTF, you're right. However, I am not sure how to overcome this.
In fact, though we have a standard scheduling meeting on the books each week, if I don't police it, it doesn't happen. And since I dislike the police role, I avoid it. We have discussed changing the scheduling meeting, and, in fact, changed it a few times, we still rarely have it, but generally just catch up on the fly. Well, that's not working is it? The first thing you need is agreement to just spend the time together in the first place. Start with that. Sit down and agree that for the next X number of months, you are going to spend 20 hours per week of UA time together every week. All you need is the agreement. You don't need him to agree that it's going to work or anything like that at all. All you need is the agreement to do it. It doesn't even need to be enthusiastic agreement! Let's face it, neither of you are going to be enthusiastic about it at first. Once you have your agreement, then go off by yourself and come up with a generic schedule you are going to propose to use every week. All it has to have on it is the times. For example: - Monday______7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
- Tues________6:30 PM - 10:00 PM
- Wednesday___7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
- Thursday____6:30 PM - 10:00 PM
- Friday______7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
- Saturday____7:00 PM - 11:00 PM
- Sunday______1:00 PM - 5:00 PM
Tues, Thurs, Sat, and Sun are something out of the house. Monday, Wed, and Fri are something at home. That's 20 hours right there with 15 of those out of the house. Adjust the times and days to whatever works for you, but make sure at least 15 of those hours are out of the house. Add in some SF time at the end of some of those dates and you are well into effective UA time territory. Once you have a schedule, present it to him and let him make changes. This is where you can POJA the basic schedule. Maybe you will agree to different times, or different days. Once you can agree to a basic schedule, go to your calender and mark the time off for every week for the next few months. Then, every week, the discussion about what to do is just limited to "What do you want to do for our Saturday date night?" "How about Thursday?" Taffy is very sensitive to feeling like he is "doing MB wrong", or not doing enough. So even my lighthearted cajoling attempts irk him. But the truth is, I often DO feel like he is doing it wrong, or insufficiently. Which, I can't express because that's a DJ. Forget all of that. Reminding him that he isn't doing it right or isn't enthusiastic enough about it isn't going to work anyway. Keep it simple. Make a schedule yourself and present it to him as a draft. Get his input on it and let him make changes to it. We haven't gotten to the place yet where our UA is much fun. Not unpleasant, just not that fun. So it feels like a sacrifice to schedule it, especially when we could be doing more "necessary, productive" things. Pleasant is good enough at the beginning. Don't get caught up in trying to make it perfect. First, start actually spending the time together, then look for ways to improve on it week to week.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
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We haven't had houseguests since starting Marriage Builders, other than a couple times my brother spent one night.
Before Marriage Builders in another city my in-laws would sometimes come to visit, but then usually only for 2-3 days, and usually one of those nights they would babysit!
If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app! Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8. Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010 If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Taffy is very sensitive to feeling like he is "doing MB wrong", or not doing enough. So even my lighthearted cajoling attempts irk him. But the truth is, I often DO feel like he is doing it wrong, or insufficiently. Which, I can't express because that's a DJ. Giving him a complaint is NOT a DJ unless you are disrespectful. He has to hear your complaints if he is to know how to improve his behavior. A complaint is like a getting an overdraft notice from the bank. It is not pleasant to get it, but the alternative is WORSE. If you don't get overdraft notices, then you would bounce checks all over town and be charged enormous fees! We haven't gotten to the place yet where our UA is much fun. Not unpleasant, just not that fun. So it feels like a sacrifice to schedule it, especially when we could be doing more "necessary, productive" things. Just keep going at it until it is the most pleasant part of your day. And be sure and schedule it out of the house on fun dates where you look nice at a time where you have the most energy. There is nothing more "necessary" or productive than your UA time! What are you doing in your UA time?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
In fact, though we have a standard scheduling meeting on the books each week, if I don't police it, it doesn't happen. And since I dislike the police role, I avoid it. We have discussed changing the scheduling meeting, and, in fact, changed it a few times, we still rarely have it, but generally just catch up on the fly. UA time that is not scheduled is not likely to be kept. It is too easy to put it off when its not scheduled.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Can you send your guests on the hiking trails and other excursions for them to enjoy while you get some UA time?
You and your H could wash the dishes together while the guests are encouraged to take a walk or relax with the tv.
If you ride two-up with your H on the motorcycle, that is considered both RC and affection and can be classified as UA time. Dr. Harley says this is a very romantic activity to do together.
We don't really care to have house guests unless they are willing and able to get out of the house a bit on their own, leaving us to our happy devices now and then. When we MUST have them, we try to get to our bedroom earlier than usual and sneak in a glass of wine and some private time. Or we'll say we absolutely MUST get out for a walk. We walk really fast and hardly anyone can keep up.
You and H could linger a bit in bed, encouraging house guests to get breakfast on their own, if they're up earlier than you.
Since you have hiking in your area, you and your H could rise early and go out on your own together to get some UA time.
Finally, you could also simply state to most or all visitors, depending on who they are, that they can stay for some period of say 3 - 4 days, and leave several-day break between guests. And graciously enforce it. Thanks, Long Way. Interestingly, having guests and entertaining is one of the few things Taffy and I are both enthusiastic about doing together. I have tried the hiking/walking thing,and Taffy says he is enthusiastic, yet it somehow rarely happens, even when it is scheduled. I caught myself the other day making plans to get out on the trails myself but curbed that as IB (plus it would be way too enjoyable.) I don't LOVE moto-ing, but will do it because it makes Taffy very happy. But I really dislike riding on the back of his. I tend to fall asleep, hardly romantic RA or UA time. And he isn't at all keen about being my passenger. Any way, with both of us riding our own bikes, it counts as RC, but not UA. And it is definitely Taffy's fave time of the week. We don't have TV, and our guests say they are here to visit with us, so scooting them out is not that easy. However, we only have a few more guests scheduled over the next few months, so I am hopeful we can get back on track UA-wise, POJA some RA's we both enjoy, and will both do.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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[
Interestingly, having guests and entertaining is one of the few things Taffy and I are both enthusiastic about doing together. BUT, it has to be done AFTER your UA time is met. Having guests should be done in a way that complements your marriage, not harms it. Being around other people is fun, but it does very little for your marriage and is not a replacement for UA time.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I found this post over on the weekend forum: "Our program for recovery only works when it's followed. The 15 hours of undivided attention we recommend is an essential part of the program because it provides the opportunity to meet emotional needs that cannot be met any other way. There are lots of excuses for failing to follow that aspect of our program, but in the end, failure to follow it results in a failed recovery.
If we saw that both of you were recovering well, I'd say that you are one of the very rare exceptions to the need to spend 15 hours a week together. But, since you are not recovering well, we can only conclude that your failure to spend enough time together, and make good use of that time meeting each other's emotional needs, is the culprit."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Well, that's not working is it? The first thing you need is agreement to just spend the time together in the first place. Start with that. Sit down and agree that for the next X number of months, you are going to spend 20 hours per week of UA time together every week. All you need is the agreement. You don't need him to agree that it's going to work or anything like that at all. All you need is the agreement to do it. It doesn't even need to be enthusiastic agreement! Let's face it, neither of you are going to be enthusiastic about it at first. Once you have your agreement, then go off by yourself and come up with a generic schedule you are going to propose to use every week. All it has to have on it is the times. For example: - Monday______7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
- Tues________6:30 PM - 10:00 PM
- Wednesday___7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
- Thursday____6:30 PM - 10:00 PM
- Friday______7:00 PM - 9:00 PM
- Saturday____7:00 PM - 11:00 PM
- Sunday______1:00 PM - 5:00 PM
Tues, Thurs, Sat, and Sun are something out of the house. Monday, Wed, and Fri are something at home. That's 20 hours right there with 15 of those out of the house. Adjust the times and days to whatever works for you, but make sure at least 15 of those hours are out of the house. Add in some SF time at the end of some of those dates and you are well into effective UA time territory. Once you have a schedule, present it to him and let him make changes. This is where you can POJA the basic schedule. Maybe you will agree to different times, or different days. Once you can agree to a basic schedule, go to your calender and mark the time off for every week for the next few months. Then, every week, the discussion about what to do is just limited to "What do you want to do for our Saturday date night?" "How about Thursday?" Don't get caught up in trying to make it perfect. First, start actually spending the time together, then look for ways to improve on it week to week. Great advice, FtF. Thanks. I like the idea of the template schedule to "hang" our weekly UA time plan on. We can then adjust the time/days weekly as needed.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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We haven't had houseguests since starting Marriage Builders, other than a couple times my brother spent one night.
Before Marriage Builders in another city my in-laws would sometimes come to visit, but then usually only for 2-3 days, and usually one of those nights they would babysit! So you just told friends and family no visitors? Wow, that would be a big change for us!!
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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UA time that is not scheduled is not likely to be kept. It is too easy to put it off when its not scheduled. True, ML. And we are a good example of this. Just after D-day, and for several months, we got tons of UA time. But lately... Not so much. Often not even the 15, let alone the 20 we really SHOULD be getting.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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Taffy is very sensitive to feeling like he is "doing MB wrong", or not doing enough. So even my lighthearted cajoling attempts irk him. But the truth is, I often DO feel like he is doing it wrong, or insufficiently. Which, I can't express because that's a DJ. Giving him a complaint is NOT a DJ unless you are disrespectful. He has to hear your complaints if he is to know how to improve his behavior. A complaint is like a getting an overdraft notice from the bank. It is not pleasant to get it, but the alternative is WORSE. If you don't get overdraft notices, then you would bounce checks all over town and be charged enormous fees! Yes, ML. But Taffy doesn't see it that way. So I am trying hard to use the "I'd love it if..." phrase. And still, he feels it is a criticism, not a complaint. Maybe I need to give him more admiration for the changes he HAS made...
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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We haven't gotten to the place yet where our UA is much fun. Not unpleasant, just not that fun. So it feels like a sacrifice to schedule it, especially when we could be doing more "necessary, productive" things. Just keep going at it until it is the most pleasant part of your day. And be sure and schedule it out of the house on fun dates where you look nice at a time where you have the most energy. There is nothing more "necessary" or productive than your UA time! What are you doing in your UA time? Out-of-the-house UA is challenging, unless we are travelling together. (All week next week), so we generally do things around home that we both enjoy, for our RC component. Wine making, sausage making, gardening, Reno projects., etc. And we try to start each weekday with a half hour in the hot tub. We may need to re-visit activities to do together that are actually fun...
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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[
Interestingly, having guests and entertaining is one of the few things Taffy and I are both enthusiastic about doing together. BUT, it has to be done AFTER your UA time is met. Having guests should be done in a way that complements your marriage, not harms it. Being around other people is fun, but it does very little for your marriage and is not a replacement for UA time. I guess is this is what it is all coming down to.... Putting our marriage FIRST... Which, often, it doesn't feel like it.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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I found this post over on the weekend forum: "Our program for recovery only works when it's followed. The 15 hours of undivided attention we recommend is an essential part of the program because it provides the opportunity to meet emotional needs that cannot be met any other way. There are lots of excuses for failing to follow that aspect of our program, but in the end, failure to follow it results in a failed recovery.
If we saw that both of you were recovering well, I'd say that you are one of the very rare exceptions to the need to spend 15 hours a week together. But, since you are not recovering well, we can only conclude that your failure to spend enough time together, and make good use of that time meeting each other's emotional needs, is the culprit." Food for thought, ML. Because I DON'T feel like we are recovering well. Taffy says he thinks we are doing fine, but I suspect that is because he feels fine himself. He says he is back in love w/ me again. Wish I could say the same....and he is frustrated it isn't happening for me yet...
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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I found this post over on the weekend forum: "Our program for recovery only works when it's followed. The 15 hours of undivided attention we recommend is an essential part of the program because it provides the opportunity to meet emotional needs that cannot be met any other way. There are lots of excuses for failing to follow that aspect of our program, but in the end, failure to follow it results in a failed recovery.
If we saw that both of you were recovering well, I'd say that you are one of the very rare exceptions to the need to spend 15 hours a week together. But, since you are not recovering well, we can only conclude that your failure to spend enough time together, and make good use of that time meeting each other's emotional needs, is the culprit." Food for thought, ML. Because I DON'T feel like we are recovering well. Taffy says he thinks we are doing fine, but I suspect that is because he feels fine himself. He says he is back in love w/ me again. Wish I could say the same....and he is frustrated it isn't happening for me yet... You are a woman. You need that time together! If there is one thing I could get through to your H that would be it. Men and women are different in that regard in general. It's a fact of life.
Me (42)
Her (43) - feuillecouleur
DS(11)
DD(7)
Married: June 24, 2000
Recovered
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Yes, ML. But Taffy doesn't see it that way. So I am trying hard to use the "I'd love it if..." phrase. And still, he feels it is a criticism, not a complaint.
Maybe I need to give him more admiration for the changes he HAS made... That's fine if he sees it that way, you can't stop doing it. You MUST continue to give him your complaints so he has an opportunity to improve. You might want to make a post to Dr Harley and have Dr H explain it to him. But you can't stop complaining just because he doesn't like it.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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[
Out-of-the-house UA is challenging, unless we are travelling together. (All week next week), so we generally do things around home that we both enjoy, for our RC component. Wine making, sausage making, gardening, Reno projects., etc. And we try to start each weekday with a half hour in the hot tub. That is probably why you are not making progress. When you are at home, it is WAY TOO EASY to find anything you enjoy doing MORE. In the beginning, you would probably enjoy doing the laundry more! At home UA time is very poor quality and is not effective. It should be the LEAST of your UA time and only when you have fallen in love again. We may need to re-visit activities to do together that are actually fun... catwhit, I mean this kindly, but I don't think you and your H are taking this very seriously. You put everything else BEFORE your UA time and when you do do it is little more than a pencil whipping exercise where you just call hanging out at home "undivided attention time." If you want things to change, you are going to have to CHNAGE. Continuing to just stay home and count your usual home activities as UA time is not going to get you anywhere. Dr Harley addresses home UA time versus going out on this radio clip: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=159068&Number=2757785#Post2757785
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Out-of-the-house UA is challenging, unless we are travelling together. (All week next week), so we generally do things around home that we both enjoy, for our RC component. Wine making, sausage making, gardening, Reno projects., etc. And we try to start each weekday with a half hour in the hot tub. Yet earlier on this thread you said: We haven't gotten to the place yet where our UA is much fun. Not unpleasant, just not that fun. So it feels like a sacrifice to schedule it, especially when we could be doing more "necessary, productive" things. You are uniquely positioned where you can sandwich your dates with a long drive since you live far from any town. For example, a perfect date would be to DRIVE to a restaurant and hour or hour and a half away. The drive there and back is fantastic UA time! From what I can tell from reading your thread, you are really getting NO UA time. A half an hour in hot tub is not consistent or effective UA time. It needs to be in 2 to 3 hours blocks. When I apply the fifteen-hour principle to marriages, I usually recommend that the time be evenly distributed throughout the week, two to three hours each day. When time must be bunched up -- all hours only on the weekend -- good results are not as predictable. Spouses need to be emotionally reconnected almost on a daily basis to meet each other's most important emotional needs.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Food for thought, ML. Because I DON'T feel like we are recovering well. Taffy says he thinks we are doing fine, but I suspect that is because he feels fine himself. He says he is back in love w/ me again. Wish I could say the same....and he is frustrated it isn't happening for me yet... The program doesn't work without the POUA. If he were in love, I seriously doubt he would be this resistant to the UA time. He sure doesn't hit me as a guy who is in love. He views it as a "sacrifice" because he enjoys almost everything more than being with you. Again, I am sorry to be so forthright, but you are such a dear person, catwhit, and I hate to see you needlessly struggle. If you will strictly follow this program for a period of time, your husband will be ANXIOUS about spending time with you. He will not view it a sacrifice, but as something he can't get enough of.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Out-of-the-house UA is challenging, unless we are travelling together. (All week next week), so we generally do things around home that we both enjoy, for our RC component. Wine making, sausage making, gardening, Reno projects., etc. And we try to start each weekday with a half hour in the hot tub. Yet earlier on this thread you said: We haven't gotten to the place yet where our UA is much fun. Not unpleasant, just not that fun. So it feels like a sacrifice to schedule it, especially when we could be doing more "necessary, productive" things. You are uniquely positioned where you can sandwich your dates with a long drive since you live far from any town. For example, a perfect date would be to DRIVE to a restaurant and hour or hour and a half away. The drive there and back is fantastic UA time! From what I can tell from reading your thread, you are really getting NO UA time. A half an hour in hot tub is not consistent or effective UA time. It needs to be in 2 to 3 hours blocks. When I apply the fifteen-hour principle to marriages, I usually recommend that the time be evenly distributed throughout the week, two to three hours each day. When time must be bunched up -- all hours only on the weekend -- good results are not as predictable. Spouses need to be emotionally reconnected almost on a daily basis to meet each other's most important emotional needs. Thanks, ML... We are spending the weekend together re-assessing and re-committing to UA time.
Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
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