TR, my question is about how you intend to use this information.

You know enough now from reading here that women remember the broad details of their affairs. They know who the man was, whether they had penetrative sex, the conditions under which they met (e.g. during the working day, at hotels, on nights when the BH was away etc), and they can remember the general intensity of the affair. They remember whether they did it because they felt at the time they were finished with the marriage, or whether it started as "me time" when some man said something nice to them after what felt like years of neglect from their H.

As far as I can tell from following the discussions here, no FWW has said she cannot remember major details of the affair. A FWW might say that she chooses never to think about the affair, and if it took place a long time ago then details such as which restaurant they ate in on which date might well have become blurred and faded, but they can remember the affair. I would say that the fact that they can remember details of the affair is firmly established, wouldn't you?

And surely you can see that regular, long-term FWW posters like writer, who read the MB materials and attempt to use them in their own marriages, posting here for help, writing to Dr H for help and offering help to others (as opposed to those who come here and leave after arguing with and dismissing MB principles), practice to the best of their ability the radical honesty that recovery from an affair requires? The women here are genuinely trying to rebuild their marriages using MB. The women here are not the kind of women who continue, years after the affair ended and they claim to want to recover their marriages, to lie blatantly to their H's about forgetting whether they had penetrative sex, who reuse to reveal the name thus leaving the BH in hell wondering who on earth it was, and who tell the BH that he does not need to know anything very much at all and that they will leave if the question of ID comes up again.

So what now for you? How many times can you go round and round asking FWWs about the details they remember and the details they gave their BHs? What can a FWW say that will give you a basis on which finally to act in your own marriage?

My understanding is that it's very clear that your wife has fudged the truth and changed her story, including saying that she does not remember key facts and also that you don't need to know key facts, because she does not want to tell you what you want to know about the affair. That's the issue you face; not whether FWWs on MB remember and revealed or not, but your wife's behaviour.

See, my strategy, given the wonderful resource of Dr H, would be to write to him, phrasing the question like this:
_________________________________________
What would be Dr H's recommendation when a spouse/wife won't reveal the details of an affair? (You would need to explain, of course, that it happened when you and your wife were separated, and that fact has a lot to do with your being unable to find out any details for yourself.)

You have not threatened to divorce your wife if you discover unpleasant truths, and you have made it clear you wish to be married for life, so t is not this fear that keeps her from telling you the truth. Rather, she says that you have no need to know the details, or sometimes that she has forgotten important details, and she threatens that she will leave you if you ever ask for details again. You believe that she really will leave you if you ask again. For that reason you haven't raised the issue for xxx years.

When you did try to talk about it, you made it clear that you can and want to put aside resentment over the affair, for good. She knows that you are not looking for reasons to divorce her. You do not use resentment as a punishment, ever. Your wife says that she is happy in her marriage and wishes to stay married. Your kids are grown and you have no problems spending UA time together and are generally happy together, apart from, for you, the big hole in your knowledge of who OM was, how it ended and the fact that it did come to a complete end, that he is not someone that you are in unwitting contact with and that your wife is in complete NC (add anything else you need to know).

When a wife appears to want to stay married, and indeed appears to have been working at the marriage for many years and has not been angry, resentful or in any other way shown reluctance to be married to her H, what are a BH's choices when he is unable to rest easily until he knows?

You do not want to end the marriage over this because the marriage is otherwise good, and you do not want to separate until and unless she comes clean. Is separation and/or divorce the only leverage that a BH has, which means that if he is unwilling to use it he has to put up with the unhappy status quo? Is the only alternative to separation for the BH to train himself to let it go and if he can't let go, for him to stay unhappy?

Can Dr H suggest anything you can do to make your wife understand why you need to know, without provoking her to leave, or meeting with a flat-out "no"?
_______________________________

TR, I have great sympathy with what you have endured from your wife, and I understand the trap that you are in. You can leave her until she gives you what you need, but you do not want to leave her, and here is no certainty that she will confess if you do. Leaving her might well end your marriage, which is the last thing you seem to want, so what else can you do?

The answer is not to keep asking FWW here whether they can remember their affairs and whether they told their BH's everything; that doesn't help you to accomplish anything.

I am frequently surprised at the answers that Dr H has for seemingly impossible dilemmas. He has worked with so many couples for so any years that he has dealt with situations that we have no clue how to deal with ourselves.

I would urge you to write to him. How long can you go on and on and around and around like this? It's painful to watch, for me as BS. You need to ask the right question, and from where I am sitting that question is not about what the highly-motivated MB FWWs did for their Hs.

If it seems that 90% of WW's can remember 90% of the past I can tell her the odds are your claiming you can not remember is just you avoiding telling me and continuing damage control.

Yes, yes, yes.

Why would you leave this thing alone now?

I do not even have the OM's name.

I do not ask for specific details. I ask for their ability to remember details. In general terms 10%, 35% 80% whatever percent. Looking for quantity vs quality because there is no need for them to go into detail.

Knowing how well the WW can remember here gives me an indication of how well my wife remembers.

Okay, so now you know that most WW's would be able to remember at least the basic facts of the A, including the OM's name.

What do you intend to do with this information?

I only said if "I were you" , I would leave it alone. From reading your posts it seemed you were fearful your wife would leave you or otherwise end the marriage if you persisted in finding out the truth. You also answered yes to staying married thus my comment...

Me? Hell nor high water would stop me from wanting that dudes name! You deserve to know the truth.

SC and others have given great advice as well empathizing with you. I hate it for you brother but it seems like hitting this thing from all these different angles isn't helping you much? You may have to hit it head on...I would listen closely to SC's advice if you're not satisfied with the status quo. That or let it go...

Are you actually going to do this?

I have not heard from WW's. I got a poster that referenced a google search. Google is not very friendly because after reading how google is my friend I could not find anything good. I will have to think of different search words.

I tend to drag my feet. Though as of right now I started that sentence with "If it seems that 90% can". I have not found out that 90% can.

Does that mean you are not going to do anything until you find that 90% can?

Where are you going with this, Road?

I want to know the number what ever the number may be. If my wife is at the opposite of 90% of the other WW's then it would indicate that she is not being honest about not remembering.

If 90% can remember and you had to chose to believe is my wife being honest or not what would you think?

I have waited a long time. It will not hurt to wait my ducks in a row.

I already think your wife is not being honest. A number on here isn't necessary to see that.

What are you getting your ducks in a row to do?

Even if it were ad 90% that could remember all/most of the details, and that majority would probably be from a recent affair when they were actually married, what of the other 10% that can't, or that have repressed those memories?

I'm not saying that to be contentious or sarcastic either. These thoughts obviously consume you and hold you back from having a truly fulfilling marital trusting, honest relationship.

Have you considered IC to help with this obsessive and compulsive dwelling on these past actions.

I also agree that writing in or trying to be a caller on the Dr Harleys show would be possibly helpful.

I fear that you will never get the answers that you need though. That's extremely frustrating.

LTL

I disagree strongly that TR is obsessive and compulsive. I understand fully how he feels and why he hasn't been able to put this to rest. Surely you can imagine the horror of not knowing who your spouse had an affair with? It could be his next-door-neighbour or his brother! Dr H has a Q&A column on this in which he sympathises entirely with a BW who does not know who OW is, because her H won't tell her. He says that recovery cannot begin until that detail is known. How can a BS have confidence in NC if he doesn't even know who the contact might be? A spouse cannot begin to recover until NC, transparency and EPs are in place, and how does he know that they are?

I don't know whether you were implying that this wasn't an affair, BTW, when you said "from a recent affair when they were actually married". TR and his wife were actually married when this happened.

His reaction is entirely normal. You can't fix normal via counseling. We have had betrayed spouses show up here 30 years later who were still obsessed with the truth about their own lives. They can't move on until they know the truth. If you read Dr Harley's article "Requiremnets for Recovery" it is about a woman who wrote him about her nightmares. She was having nightmares because her husband was not telling her the truth.

It drives people crazy when they are lied to about their own lives. They can't move forward. It is very cruel.

This is why STEP ONE in recovery is getting the full truth about the affair. It is essential.

No.

Just stating that the vast majority on these forums are recently discovered or TT continuing saga as the TT unfolds.

Also, i get confused between Gamma and TheRoad and time frames from when the affair occurred.

If he can't get his W to give him the truths he needs, he doesn't have consequences/boundaries for not getting the information, won't divorce or separate, and so far has not contacted Dr. Harley, what is there left to do?

I feel then, work on therapy for himself.

I'm not qualified to advise properly, but I'm trying to come up with some alternatives to rid himself of his continual pain.

LTL

The question is not whether she was honest in what she said in the past. Is she being honest about not remembering the past. The question were I am at now is the ability of WW's in general are able to remember how much of the past. I am trying to gauge her honesty on not remembering the past now.

What I feel and know are mot the same.

The thing is, none of us can tell you how much your particular WW can or cannot remember. It's impossible for us to get inside her head and tell you what may or may not be there. Even if 90% of WW's remember their A's, that would still leave 10% that do not, and your WW could always fall into that 10%.

It's difficult for me to fathom not being able to remember the name of someone you were in a relationship with for years. A one-night-stand maybe, but not a longer A.

So, your WW likely does remember more than she's telling you. I think you can safely draw that conclusion. So what are you going to do about it? You've been here for years and so far you don't seem inclined to do anything at all. Your WW likely knows this, and since there are no consequences for her not telling you what you need to know, there isn't much of a reason for her to do so.

When you put it to your wife that 90% (or whatever figure) of FWWs remember 90% (or whatever figure) of their affair details, and she says "well, good for them. They are not me. I DON'T remember the details", what will you do?