The thing is, none of us can tell you how much your particular WW can or cannot remember. It's impossible for us to get inside her head and tell you what may or may not be there. Even if 90% of WW's remember their A's, that would still leave 10% that do not, and your WW could always fall into that 10%.


Yes impossible to know. Though when playing seven card draw when the first two cards are dealt face down and then then the third card is drawn and placed face up the betting begins.

As the game is continued people get dealt a face up card three more times. The more you see revealed the more you can guess what the hold cards are (the two face down cards dealt in the beginning). Hence you can better guess if the other players are bluffing or not.

By seeing how other WW's remembered is like me sitting in a poker game with them. Except knowing how they were able to remember is giving me better insight to call my wife's bluff. At this point I do not know if my wife is bluffing or not. Does she not remember at all, a little, half, or everything. Hence the need for a comparison point.

You want me to call my wife's bluff when all that is showing is one face up card.


So, your WW likely does remember more than she's telling you. I think you can safely draw that conclusion. So what are you going to do about it? You've been here for years and so far you don't seem inclined to do anything at all. Your WW likely knows this, and since there are no consequences for her not telling you what you need to know, there isn't much of a reason for her to do so.



You telling me that she can remember more then she is telling me is not twenty WW's telling they can remember everything, 2 remember half, 1 nothing.

When I say I am going to do something it sometimes takes a long time to do it. I had just said a few days ago that I was thinking about writing Dr H again. It is such an effort to start writing to him. Thus the delay between the thought and action.

Is your hobby and number one recreational activity creating problems?

You've been here since 2007.

In the past six years, what have you done to improve your marriage?

What MB principles have you incorporated into your life?

Which of Dr. Harley's books have you read?

^^THIS^^

That is a great explanation, Sugar. TR, I hope you will read that again and again, because SC has painted an astonishingly clear picture for you -- much better than I could have done myself. I sat here trying to think of words that might help you, and then I read her post. It is a PERFECT description.

My affair was 8 years ago and what SC said is true for me -- and, unfortunately, I know it will still be true when 30, 40 or 50 years [etc] have passed. That is not to say I sit and dwell on the fact that I remember, just that I wish I could totally forget -- I wish I could take it all back -- erase it -- change it, but that is not possible.

TR, your wife certainly remembers the broad details about her affair that you need, she just isn't willing to share them with you. I am sorry, because that is terribly cruel of her. I hope you will contact Dr. Harley for his advice as everyone else has suggested.

Mrs. W

So good they named her twice.



(To her, not to you.)

TR!!! You deserve a whuppin' for that!

SC is exactly right, you know.

Mrs. W

DANG! I usually catch those!



Mrs. Double W

Well, the point of this question, as with my recent questions, was to follow through your idea of putting your survey responses of FWWs on MB to your wife as some kind of evidence. Since she has already clearly stated that she will not discuss it with you and she will leave you if you bring up the subject again, it seems to me that the issue is not with her memory but with her outright refusal to tell you what you have a right to know.

To reiterate: it's her refusal that is your problem, not her memory.

It seems to me that putting the evidence of other people's memories in front of her is not going to make her try harder to remember, since it is unlikely that she has ever forgotten. Obviously, it is your prerogative to continue doing what you have been doing.

It is not my hobby or number one recreational activity to create problems. I post on MB, and I was particularly drawn to this thread and to your quest, because my experience as BS had a profound effect on me and I don't like to see others in unresolved affair hell. I went through that for a long time and I post to help others get through it as quickly as possible.

I tried in my posts yesterday to show understanding of your horrible position, and I spent quite a long time making a couple of replies to which you have not responded. I was trying to help you stop going round in circles, but it seems that I am now going round in circles myself, asking questions and getting the same replies, and worse than that, being mocked.

TR,

I'll try and give you a bit more insight into this. In my case OM was an ex-boyfriend that I dated off and on for 9 years. (ages 14-22) I have very little memory of the actual dates that we went on back in those days, although I DO remember that I dated him and I DO remember that we had a sexual relationship in the later years of that time frame. What kills me is that I remember MORE about the 3 month affair with him than I do about all of those previous years. I suspect that is because I knew what I was doing was WRONG and I was trying to hide it -- it was a time of great anxiety and turmoil for me. Because it was traumatic it is seared into my soul -- a part of my consequences, I believe.

Anytime I have flashbacks this scripture plays in my head:

But a man who commits adultery lacks judgment; whoever does so destroys himself. Proverbs 6:32

I guarantee you that your wife hasn't forgotten that you were separated. That would represent a traumatic event in life - people don't forget things like that. And also, women don't forget the names of men who give them jewelry -- especially jewelry that they went to great lengths to keep.

Mrs. W

TR and Gamma,

You are the only two men that I've read on this forum who have this situation - of 20+ years ago infidelity that your wives won't tell you about.

You are also both trying to get the information by some sort of trickery; Gamma by engineering meetings between his wife and OM, in the hope that her surprise or possible distress will bring about some truth, and TR by collecting cards with FWW testimonies in order to have a full house to lay before his wife, and say "ta da! You must be able to remember because they can!"

You have both been on this forum for years going around and around with the same problem, but not talking directly to your wives.

You both ignore the endless suggestions to write to Dr H.

You are both ignoring MB advice and ploughing your own paths, and here you are, still.

I did feel you were going in circles. Though not angered by it.

Poking fun is not the same as mocking. Some got the joke.

I have been known to throw many a rant here.

Many have been in fun.



Mrs W, thank you for giving me more insight on WW memory. Both you and Mr W are very good writer's here on MB.

Polls are not a good methodology for determining simple facts. Your wife knows who she had her affair with. That is a simple fact. Your problem is less knowing this fact than having a credible plan for moving forward with or without this information. So, say you present the results of your research to your wife, and she breaks down with a confession that her AP was Ulysses S. Grant? Are you going to conclude the obvious, or are you going to conduct a poll to determine how many WWs had affairs with Civil War generals?

Though I've not had an affair with him, our 31 pound CAT is named "Robert E. Lee" -- Bob for short!

Mrs. W

P.S. Gamma, have you had an opportunity to look over the Personal History Questionnaire that I posted the link to?

Well now it's what to say to OM3, met OM3 on a Saturday at a coffee shop.

W was in the car, OM3 wanted to know where my W was, wanted to give my W a kiss through the window??? As it turns out OM3 was at the coffee shop with his SO.

OM3 got divorced some time back, and was put on the list by my W who claimed to have a one sided infatuation with him. I'm not so sure how one sided it was.

I'm thinking about speaking with OM3 ex-wife and current SO, this is so weird. I know people fall in love with my W quickly but WTH!

God Bless
Gamma

It's not falling in love. It's the fact that she's easy to get to "love" them...

Gamma, have you ever considered moving FAR away?

Gama your WW had a crush on OM3. Having a crush does not mean their was even a EA. There was nothing gained by seeing OM3. Even calling him OM3 is not the best label. Your mind is out of control. From the little you said about OM3, divorced, shows up with new woman to talk about old affair, wants to blow your WW a kiss, all paints a bad picture of him. This shows your efforts to uncover the truth are not worth it.

Have you gotten her a poly? Do that then put it to rest.

You dragging around your WW to meet XOM's. You would be better off once you have WW in the car to drive straight to a polygraph test. You know NC is the way to go yet you keep having your WW break NC. You make the tremendous effort to make your WW have all these reunions. Yet no effort to have a polygraph done.

From what little you wrote it appears that whatever that OM3 said can not be believed.

If I could meet or call my wife's OM and I knew that he was to give me the whole truth. I would not bring my wife to that meeting. You are a loose cannon.

Gamma, whenever a poster starts writing very cryptic, hardly any details, it makes believing what he had to say very hard to believe.



I'm still trying to motivate myself to write DR H.

Didn't SugarCane help draft you a letter on what to say?

I did suggest an outline letter but it was not even acknowledged.

I sent an email to Dr H.

What have I done.