You need to expose to her family without forewarning him.

Stop being so timid.

The problem is that when people have affairs, it makes them stupid; it's like being drunk and crafty and addicted all at once.

YOU need to do this.

That's why the BS has to do the work of recovery. You keep getting the drunk to drive instead!



While you were at work, right? *sigh* You actually have no idea what he did with those pictures. For all you know they are on a remote back up system.

You should have deleted them yourself or had him do it straight away instead of asking HIM to do it on his terms.


And then there are the plans for the weekend. I am pretty sure that this was HIS idea. Just as the blackmail plan was HIS idea.

FF is totally right:



YOU should be the one setting the rules for recovery!!!!!!

Whenever a WS requests space or separation it is because they know it will be eaiser to contact their AP.

There should be no reason at all for the two of you to separate at such a vulnerable time.

It was his idea wasn't it?




I'm sorry; are you saying three D days and a constant fear of being left because he now has you on a pass/fail test of meeting his needs is BETTER?

Lots of marriages do recover. But not while the WS is driving the bus.

Look at GloveOil's signature. His wife told him in no uncertain terms that if he did it again "he'd be out on his [censored]". And because he IS remorseful, he is proud of her tough stance.

He did not sneer at her and make her feel like a jailer when her heart was broken. For a long while she didn't trust him out of her sight as far as the grocery store and that was fine with him. Her user name was 'Trust Will Come' - but she most certaintly did not hand it out for free as you do and accept very tall tales as you do every day.

He never slept with her? Really?

As a FWH, GloveOil can see quite easily (as can we) that you are constantly being spun fairy tales between each and every D Day.

I have seen the words 'hope' 'hopeful' and 'hopeless' in pretty much every post you've made.

Hope is not a plan. It is a distraction.

Gather up all that hope, fear and hopelessness and toss it in the trash right now.

You don't need hope. All you need is TrustWillCome's determination that you will never be cheated on again. Not one more D Day.

So get to work.

Oh and sack your therapist - he's clearly a charlatan and can't see D Day no 4 on the horizon and cares not if it is there.

I am quite certain WH loves him.

This is how it goes when you forewarn exposure:

WH: "My mean wife is going to blow up all your hard work gaslighting your H. He is going to know the real reason you are divorcing him is me."

OW: "Well I thought you could manage her better than that. How am I supposed to keep my H sweet and get the D deal I want now? I am so upset with you."

WH: "I am warning you aren't I? I am helping. Isn't there anything you can do?"

OW: "Well I will just have to get to everyone first. I will tell them I am being stalked by the crazy wife of an innocent friend. Hopefully they won't listen to her."

A remorseful wayward realises they are a PROVEN liar. They would never ask for 'trust'. They would be keen to prove themselves with verifiable actions. They would not make unbelievable claims like 'I visted her to not sleep with her'. They would gladly take a polygraph. They will make their life an open book to you.

Here is a list of the most common lies addicted waywards tell their BS to keep them quiet. All these lies rely on the BS' willingness to be lied to.



Being lied to by the WS is such a common theme around here that I wrote a thread on the subject because blind trust from the newbies is very tiring and tragic.


Never Take the Word of a Wayward

WH tells me I'm controlling all the time. The therapist wants to work with me on that because WH sees it as a huge problem. I tried to explain that I simply follow my hunches and so far every single hunch has been right.

Honestly, he destroyed the letters and pictures in front of me when I got home from work yesterday. He did not let me burn them, but we did rip them up. OW had doused them with so much perfume he was afraid that burning them would be a bad idea. Stinky lighter fluid.

Yes, the visit to MIL was his idea. He is taking the kids along. He said that he needs to admit some very cruel and painful things about what he has done to both his parents and to his best friend. When the A was discovered, he put all the blame on me and he said he now wants to take ownership with these important people in his life. He said that having me there would be awkward. I am the godmother of his best friend's child and he wants to let the friend know that I am not a threat.

When the A was discovered, he told his family and friends that he was trying to break away from me because I was verbally and physically abusive to our children -- another lie. The family and friends immediately took his side. They do not wish to see or speak to me because they believe I am a monster. He wants to visit them and set the record straight. He does not want me to be there because he thinks it will look insincere. He is taking the kids because my older child can also tell the family that I have not be cruel to her. DD#2 is non-verbal. She doesn't speak. She cannot testify that I'm a good mom.

He says that he feels awful about the lies he has told because they tainted his character and mine. He wants to set the record straight so that I can speak to his family and our friends again... and so I can see my goddaughter again.

I've looked into his eyes. I know that he is both sincere and scared. He has promised that this visit to MIL will last less than 24 hours. He is leaving this afternoon and will be back before lunch tomorrow. He just "needs to do this alone."

Again, I'm I falling for another lie? MIL will not let him use her phone and his phone has been blocked. He has no access to turn off the call block on his phone.

Babs there is no need for a sad face - all you need is a plan.

What you have said here is exactly what I suspected. Your therapist is just a clueless amateur who is trying to appease whoever shouts loudest.

If he knew what he was doing, he would have a PLAN.

I have seen SO MANY recovered marriages on these forums.

Every single one followed a plan of just a few simple steps. All the ones that were false recoveries had missed out at least one step.

They are:

1) Exposure. Everyone (but most especially the other BS) should know about the A. The BS should know how to contact you if they discover contact occurring on their end.

2) NC - which involves an NC LETTER!!! Not a verbal 'farewell sweet love'. To ensure NC contact details must be changed beforehand to prevent any response (Not blocked - CHANGED!)

2) Agreeing to no more nights apart ever or going out without each other - this creates a healthy, integrated lifestyle.

3) Complete transparency - cell phone passwords, finances etc. Transparency should be ENTHUSIASTIC on the part of the WH. No more talk of 'control' and jailers.

4) Changing the conditions which led to the A, no more Opposite Sex friendships, travelling for work or leisure or secret second lives.

5) Complete honesty about the affair<s>, involving proof or passing a polygraph

6) Committing to the MB program for marital recovery which includes Extraordinary Precautions, Just Compensation for the betrayed spouse and rebuilding the romantic love.

That is the BARE minimum situation needed for recovery. Your situation however:

A) Your H doesnt want to do any of these and is very keen about doing the OPPOSITE. He wants time away from you, he wants to protect OW from the fall out of exposure and he is giving you highly unbelievable lies regarding this 'EA' which he expects you to accept on trust

B) Your therapist hasnt addressed any of these BARE MINUMUM requirements for recovery. If you asked him what his plan for recovery was I would expect him to look a bit blank. I would also ask him if he has ever seen a successfully recovered couple (such as the ones who populate these boards) - and how far down the line post therapy he checks up on them. Dr Harley has kept in touch with couples for decades so he can truly vouch for the success of his plan.

I know you are smart Babs.

How smart is it to sit in a room chatting about YOU being controlling (for heavens sake), while you know full well he is still protecting his A?

I am so sorry, but nothing here is hopeful. I say that as someone who has a recovered marriage and has seen hundreds more recover their marriages here using Dr Harley's material. Your problem is not that you are "controlling" but that your husband is having an affair. Every wayward spouse accuses his betrayed spouse of being "controlling" when they interfere with the affair.

We can't help you if you refuse to follow the advice. I am very sorry for your dilemma.

Then why can't you go? I think you are getting some smoke blown your way, here.



This is a terrible, terrible idea aimed at getting you away while he contacts the OW.

I am not at all surprised it was HIS idea.

I can't beleive you have been told to sit at home because of his lies and your poor kids now have to keep this liar in line for you.

Have they been told about the A by the way?




You saw that look before the last D Day too.

I remember my H's 'sincere' assurance that he 'just needed to do this alone'. Exactly those words.

He didn't want me there while he helped a friend out with babysitting. He said he was doing it for me so he could work on his fear of having children.

He also said something about how I couldn't come because us fighting in that home would cause a problem. I dont see how, I wouldn't have fought with him in a child's home. But at the time, I bought it. He loved me, he was just afraid/confused etc. That's what I told myself. I told myself he 'just needed to do this alone'.

It is AMAZING how they say the exact same things, isn't it Babs? Makes it very easy to spot though.

So, he went out to babysit. He put the kids to bed then had his PA with their mother, the OW.

When waywards are missing their addiction, they need space to get a hit. They have to do that ALONE.

This is what waywards do Babs.

Your husband can do this over the phone AFTER you have exposed the affair to his parents. I seriously doubt he is going there anyway. Or he is planning on meeting the OW down there. And you wouldn't be the wiser because you are only going by what he tells you.

There is no need to spend any nights apart. Dr Harley would tell you that spending the night apart is an invitation to an affair. But you already know this.

The scary part here is that you are just ASKING for the affair to continue by "trusting" a liar. You don't understand that your husband has a powerful addiction to the OW and will lie, steal and cheat to get to her. But you believe he is being honest with you.

You will be dealing with this affair for a long time if you don't start exposing it and taking effective steps to stop it.

The longer you put this off, the more entrenched the affair becomes. The more entrenched it becomes, the more likely it is he will leave you. You have been through THREE D-days and are headed for the fourth right now. You are headed towards divorce.

BB, I am telling you that this is hopeless if you won't take action. You need to expose this affair NOW. Stop his trip and stop enabling this affair.

You have enabled this affair almost to the point of no return. And it might be too late now because this has gone on so long that your husband is extremely addicted to the OW.

If you don't wake up and do it soon, you aren't going to have a marriage.

Melody Lane has been on these forums for many years, saved countless marriages and I have never seen her misdiagnose a situation.

If I were you I would sit up and pay attention and thank your lucky stars that such a veteran poster is giving you her time.

Blackraven summed it up for you.



You're scared of him.

So does MiL support you and is keeping him in line or does she hate you and won't allow you to visit?

Or is it both?

Is this another inconsistent fairy tale you have been told?

Is there some kind of problem with you simply calling them up and exposing the A?

Thank you for the advice. I take all of it for what it is and I know you are sincere.

I've always been a strong person... or so I thought. Nothing has ever rocked my life like this before. I've been divorced once and haven't had this much pain. This is the hardest thing I've ever had to do and I need to save face for my kids. They don't deserve this.

WH is sleeping right now. When he wakes I will insist that I go with him to MIL or he doesn't go at all. I have just mailed the letters to OW's BH and parents. I did not tell him.

I checked his emails and found that she tried to contact him there. He did not even read the email. He rarely checks his emails. I deleted it and have not told him.

Honesty: Goes both ways, right? Do I tell him that I deleted an email from her?

You're in a state of war situation right now. You don't tell him anything until he has proved his trustworthyness to you. He has a long way to go before then.

What did it say?

hugs to you, BB! We know exactly what you are going through.

I would pick up the phone right now and tell his mother all about the affair. When your husband wakes up tell him you do not agree that he go to his M's house. He needs to stay there with you.


Can you save the email in a safe place? Can you forward it to yourself and then delete it? You are going to need to save the evidence.


NO. Honesty does not go both ways. You should not be honest about anything that is done to protect you from abuse. An affair is at the top of that list.

I would pick up the phone right now and call the OW's husband. Disguise your # using *67 so the OW doesn't see it the caller ID. And/or send a facebook message to the OWH and her parents NOW, telling them about the affair and asking them to call you.

You will have to pay $1 to put a message in their inbox, so be prepared to do that. I would also strart exposing the affair to the OW's facebook contacts using the templates on my exposure thread.

You MUST get ahold of the OW's husband TODAY. Can you do that?

I exposed the A to MIL the day I found out. She has told me that what WH did was terrible and she does not approve. However, she needs to take his side and support him because he is her son and she recognizes that there is a potential that he will pick OW. She has lectured him as recently as Wednesday this week for "stringing two women along" and told him to make a choice and stick with it. He said that he picks me and our family.

MIL and FIL have serious health issues and want to keep peace in their home. They have asked me to not visit because they fear we will fight in front of them.

Good girl.

It's very important exposure is all done at once, not in drips and drabs. What you need to do is get a full exposure plan in place.

Can you read ML's link and get a full plan of who else needs to be exposed to?

You understand that your kids will need to know too, right?

You should also expect him to be horribly and ridiculously angry with you for busting up his A. That's good though, that's what you want.

Lots of people all finding out at once and calling him on it.

I dont want to see you endure another D Day.

Got it - she isnt an ally to the Marriage at all she is merely fence sitting. Poor Babs.

She would definitely allow her son to contact OW I'm afraid.