I discovered my husband affair in May this year and have been in plan A mode ever since. I have read 'Surviving an affair' 'Love busters' and 'His needs Her needs' and I feel I have learnt a great deal and have used this knowledge to make my self a better spouse and a better person in general.
I do believe my husband has ended his affair with the OW how ever he has still engaged in behaviours that I would consider unacceptable even though I have asked for those behaviours to stop such as visiting affair seeking websites and he has not been honest and upfront about the OW contacting him, even when I know she has and I ask him if he has heard from her he lies straight to my face he has done this again this morning. I am sad and confused because I honestly feel I have worked extremely hard to meet his needs and he hasn't made it easy for me. It took months to encourage him to fill the emotional needs questionnaire, he has refused counselling and will not read any books to help our marriage. I wanted to give plan A a full 6 months and hoped to inspire him to want to save our marriage. He says he wants to save our marriage but has not actually done anything productive to show he means what he says. I take full acceptance for my behaviours that led to his affair, I know I spent no time trying to be a better spouse and I am not sure if the last few months is enough to make up for that but to be fair he never did any thing to make him self a better spouse either.
Today I am again faced with knowing he has lied to me. To be honest it's a massive blow to my self esteem and self worth, I just can't understand why he continues to lie. I have never been angry about his wrong doings I have just tried to fix the problems but feel I must have missed something somewhere because he continues to be dishonest.
November 30 was my date to decide and put in plan B. I am wondering if I should put plan B in place early and hope for the best or if I should be doing more from my end to inspire him to be honest.
I don't want to have to put plan B in place I want my marriage but I don't know what to do any more.

Hi Blueberries, welcome to Marriage Builders. Sorry for the reasons that brought you here. Do you know that Dr Harley only recommends that women stay in Plan A for 3 to 4 weeks? He would tell you go into Plan B right away.

Have you exposed the affair? Is the OW married and if so, has her husband been informed?

Thank you for the fast reply. Oh I thought plan A was 3-4 months......
The OW is in a relationship. I feel terrible that he doesn't know but I can't seem to find him and my husband won't give me their details.
I have not exposed this affair to our friends and family, I want to but want to find a way to contact the OW's partner first and honestly I am quite scared to expose my husbands affair.

Can you put spyware on his computer to find out her contact information? Do you know where the OW lives? Have you googled her name and phone # to see if she is married? Do you have her address?

I would find out as much information as you can and expose the affair to everyone.

Dr Harley recommends only a very short Plan A for women, 3-4 weeks. What is your plan for separation? Will he move out?

I am not sure about spyware, he uses an iPhone and then work computers.
I have googled her name, I have found her on Facebook they are not friends but messages had been sent between them and she still sends him messages on Facebook although he does not reply to her on Facebook any more. Her Facebook page is very private I can't see anything or find any info and my husband won't give me any of her details. So I don't know where she lives or any information about her except her name. I also know what sort of car she drives as she used to often drive past my house but I have not seen it for a few months now.
I plan to ask him to move out but if that fails I have family I can stay with. I am hoping for the kids sake that he moves.

Good heavens... Why not?

You say you've read "Surviving an Affair." What does it advise about exposure?

You can't merely read a book such as SAA & leave it at that, as though you'll acquire some magical force-field around your marriage. You've got to do what's advised, if you want the book to have any meaningful impact on your circumstances. Do you want to kill the affair, or do you want to help maintain the cloak of secrecy that allows cake-eating spouses to feel OK about remaining in affairs?

Please read this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html

Exposure is one of the most fundamental steps in killing the appeal of an affair & icing it so that it stays dead. It's part of "Step 1" for ending an affair. It's basic. Even the best-case scenarios where the wayward spouse is down-on-his-knees-begging repentant & remorseful from the outset benefit hugely from at least some degree of exposure; and from what you've told us, your husband's case demands a lot more exposure than that.

Have a look at what my wife told me on the very day I confessed my affair to her (see 2nd quote below, in red text). Only you need to move straight to the "out on your [censored]" part, because your husband is so deep into this thaht only stark consequences hitting him between the eyes have any chance to snap him out of this.

A key logger on the home PC may catch your WH using FB and you will then have his FB pass word. Then access to OW FB page. You have to keep chipping away to get info. Slow work but you will never get there without the work part.

YOU stay. He goes.

I'd pack his things up and ask him where he expects to live if he won't even give you basic facts like OW's address. (Can you look her up on public records? Intellius?

For all you know she could live a street away. Say you need to know which exact street she lives on, or he can find a hotel.

Don't warn him re exposure. Simply say you need to know where this woman IS. Which is true.

You can then use her car to find the exact address and find the spouse/boyfriend.

Can you click on the link in my sig to prepare for Plan B?

Plan B is amazing and you are overdue some healing and the chance of a wonderful life with or without recovery.

If he won't get out, don't argue.

Just have his things delivered to a relative/storage facility and change the locks.

The Plan B letter makes it clear that he can come home the MINUTE recovery conditions start being met.

Have you found her home address? Do they talk on the phone? Do you have the phone #?

Thank you again for your responses.
I think I may have not explained my self properly. Please excuse my inability to quote in the same way you do, I have had to opy and paste.

First my reply to CloveOil

'You say you've read "Surviving an Affair." What does it advise about exposure?'

It says if an affair is not ended the right way then to expose.
I know the affair with the other woman has ended, so exposing it to friends and family is not my priority. My priority is working how how to stop the lies. I have full access to his facebook account and I know she has sent him messages and he has NOT replied to them but when I asked him if he had heard from her lately he blatently lied to my face and said he had not. Yet he knows that I have full access to his facebook account and that I can see what goes on. I cant understand why he is lying as I have worked very hard on ensuring I do not have angry outbursts or engage in any other 'Love Busters' so thats why I ask if these lies are an indicator that I need to move to plan B.
I also caught him on an affair site called Ashley Maddison, where he has an unpaid profile. I do not have access to his profile but I made a pretend profile and I am following him to see when he logs in and I seen that this site was open on his phone.

'Exposure is one of the most fundamental steps in killing the appeal of an affair & icing it so that it stays dead. It's part of "Step 1" for ending an affair. It's basic. Even the best-case scenarios where the wayward spouse is down-on-his-knees-begging repentant & remorseful from the outset benefit hugely from at least some degree of exposure; and from what you've told us, your husband's case demands a lot more exposure than that.'

Agreed, how ever I did think the affair was ended in the right way.

'banghead You can't merely read a book such as SAA & leave it at that, as though you'll acquire some magical force-field around your marriage. You've got to do what's advised, if you want the book to have any meaningful impact on your circumstances. Do you want to kill the affair, or do you want to help maintain the cloak of secrecy that allows cake-eating spouses to feel OK about remaining in affairs?'

Please read this: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html

I have read the above link again and it confirmed my current understanding.
I did not assume that I would acquire a magical force-field around my marriage, as I have said I have learnt a hell of a lot and have become a much better spouse and human being because of these books. I just feel that I am missing something as I am unable to inspire my husband to read the books, or participate in any of the suggested concepts from the books. I know I can not change him, I can only change my self and I really do feel I have become a better person - not perfect but better and I will continue to better my self.
My husband has not continued an affair he is how ever not telling the truth about current circumstances eg that the other woman has contacted him even though he has not contacted her back.

'Have a look at what my wife told me on the very day I confessed my affair to her (see 2nd quote below, in red text). Only you need to move straight to the "out on your [censored]" part, because your husband is so deep into this thaht only stark consequences hitting him between the eyes have any chance to snap him out of this.'

Point taken, thank you.

TheRoad,
Thank you for your reply.

'A key logger on the home PC may catch your WH using FB and you will then have his FB pass word. Then access to OW FB page. You have to keep chipping away to get info. Slow work but you will never get there without the work part.'

I have his facebook password, he and the other woman are not 'friends' on facebook but in the past messages were sent between them so I was able to find her profile how ever because they are not 'friends' and her privacy settings are high I can not see anything on her page. She has this month contacted him again on facebook via his inbox how ever he has not replied. He has failed to tell me the truth about her contacting him even though he hasnt replied and did nothing wrong up until the point of lying to me about her contacting him.
I am chipping away the best I can but this woman is very hard to find. I know nothing about her and my husband will not give me information on her.I kn ow I will get there eventually, slowly but surely and when I do I just want to inform her partner not out of meanness but out of respect, I believe he should have the opportunity to fix his relationship or leave it or at least have the choice.

Blueberrys, GLove oil understands (as you do not) that the Affair is still ongoing.

If contact is ongoing, the A is on. They are conducting the A online flagrantly from your home.

That, as outlines in SAA, is a very clear call for Plan B.

GloveOil is a little shocked because it was tough love got him out of his A and into No Contact. He had tried a number of times to end the A in secret and wasn't strong enough.

He's shocked (as am I) that you're enduring this because his wife would have all his stuff on the lawn if he had continued the A from their home.

Blueberries, Dr Harley recommends exposure REGARDLESS of the state of the affair. However, in your case, the affair is still active. You said the OW is still very much in contact with your husband.

The purpose of exposure is to shine the light of reality on the wayward's wayward behavior. The affair should be exposed to close family, friends, and most especially your children. This is an instrumental part of recovery.

If anything, it might help wake up your husband.

I would start there and make plans to separate. Have you asked him to move out?

Of course you should inform the poor man. You can't recover (nor can he) without full exposure.

Could you get a PI to track her spouse down?

Blueberries, I would try this plan. Go set him down and tell him what it will take to keep you in this marriage. Give him this chance to meet your conditions. If he refuses, then ask him to move out. NOW.

Ask him to send a no contact letter to the OW that is written together, approved by you and mailed together. [template below from SAA] You will be given her full name, phone #, and address and will mail the letter to her and her husband.

Tell him you are willing to give him an opportunity to earn your forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end all contact with the OW for life

2. complete elimination of facebook and all social networking - agree to never be on the computer unless you are there with him

3. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc

4. no more opposite sex friendships

5. complete honesty about him affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. commit to the Marriage Builders program for recovery as outlined in the book Surviving an Affair.

Tell him "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on his willingness and ability to make radical changes. His lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. He is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe. He must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now she has failed. Unless he makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a husband, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

You have nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking this approach, because if she won't do these things, you will have lost nothing except a loveless, abusive marriage.

Unless you use this program to create a much better marriage than the one you had before the affair, you are likely looking at repeat affairs. So don't even think you can get away with sweeping the affair under the rug and going back to what you had before. What you had before led to the affair!

here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

indiegirl,
Thank you for your reply.

'YOU stay. He goes.'

Yes I am hopeful of that.

'I'd pack his things up and ask him where he expects to live if he won't even give you basic facts like OW's address. (Can you look her up on public records? Intellius?'

Packing his things today, very sad about it. Will do as you suggested and I will then be able to contact her partner. Not sure about public records, I am in Australia so things are different here as far as confidentiality goes.

'For all you know she could live a street away. Say you need to know which exact street she lives on, or he can find a hotel.'

Advice taken and I will be doing this this afternoon.

'Don't warn him re exposure. Simply say you need to know where this woman IS. Which is true.'

I wont be warning him as I know that wont get me any closer to finding out information.

'You can then use her car to find the exact address and find the spouse/boyfriend.'

I am not sure I can do this as I do not know the number plate on the car only the type of car and there is a lot of those sort of cars around.

'Can you click on the link in my sig to prepare for Plan B?'

Thank you I am about to do that.

'Plan B is amazing and you are overdue some healing and the chance of a wonderful life with or without recovery.'

Thank you your encouraging words really mean a lot to me. This year has been hell and I do sometimes feel I need some time out to heal.

'If he won't get out, don't argue.'

Just have his things delivered to a relative/storage facility and change the locks.'

Great idea.

'The Plan B letter makes it clear that he can come home the MINUTE recovery conditions start being met.'

Yes, I have been working on a plan B letter for some time. I will be finalizing it today

here

The more people who know about the affair, the more people to hold your husband accountable and the more people to support you. It is the most powerful weapon in restoring a marriage to full recovery.

Thank you for the clarity