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I've read the book, but needed some clarifications about Plan A.
During Plan A, what do we do? For men Dr Harley recommends waiting 6 months, but what do I do during those months? It seems to me I can't start the plan, working on her needs and avoiding love busters. But how can we repair things if we don't do that? It's only been 12 days since I found out, and I want to giver her space to end it. But it'll take some time. In the meantime I want to start working on the plan, but seeing her continuing the affair is hurting me. I'll try my best to last 6 months, but in the meantime I feel weird talking to her about trivial things, and avoiding the big issue. I feel stuck, can't act normally, like nothing happened, but also can't talk about the plan to solve things. And it feels she's getting closer to the other, while I'm getting further. What to do?
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When MelodyLane tells you to expose this affair and to whom, follow the link in her signature to find out what you need to do. Plan A includes exposure, not just being a husband that she'd want to come back home to.
xFWW(me)-48
Married-14 years
D-Day~23-May-11
NC- 14-Apr-11
1 DS 15
Online course July '11 to July '12
17 sessions with S. Harley Feb '12 to Sep '12
Divorced Jan 21, 2013
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Hi Badhusband, welcome to Marriage Builders.
The most important step in Plan A is killing the affair. You do this by exposing it. Your wife will not allow you to meet her needs until you drive the OM out of your lives. Don't pretend like the affair doesn't exist, go out and kill it.
Please read the link in my signature and come back and discuss.
Why did you choose the screen name "BadHusband?" Have you been a bad husband?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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I want to give her space to end it. That is the very worst thing you can do. Yes I realise she has probably ASKED for space (they all do). She has probably given you impassioned speeches on how AMAZING she finds it when her husband is neglectful and turns a blind eye to a flagrant affair. But don't listen to her - it is a terrible idea that only an addicted wayward would suggest. A) It looks uncaring if you sit by and twiddle your thumbs. B) You can't meet needs while you are standing aside for your rival and C) Why are you giving the affair 'space' to thrive? Women in particular lose all respect when their husbands are passive and not protective. Dr Harley encourages exposure is completed by the Betrayed Spouses. In particular he asks Betrayed Husbands to confront the OM and tell him his life will be made a misery if the A continues. Tell him her family will not accept him, the children will not accept him, all thanks to your exposure. Tell him you will also pursue legal compensation for the destruction of your family (if applicable to your local laws) and he will also be named in your divorce and will have to appear and give testimony as to his adultery (if applicable to your local laws). It's also very important OM's F&F are also exposed and if a workplace A, his and your wife's superiors. Then keep your wife busy, meeting her needs and disrupting the A. Don't give her any space at all. Is she conducting the A under your roof? How is she communicating or seeing him? Are you doing anything to prevent that? Can you get her family to support you and call for A to stop? Do you have kids and do they know?
Last edited by indiegirl; 10/24/13 07:43 AM.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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**Qualifier from Marriage Builders moderating staff: the phrase "Carrot and Stick" is not intended to convey reward and punishment as in the typical meaning of C&S. While the originator of this post never meant it as such, we want to emphasize this distinction so there is no misunderstanding.**
(from 2006)
The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A
The carrot of Plan A
Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
Stop lovebusting behaviors.
Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.
Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.
Offering forgiveness and understanding.
The stick of Plan A
Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Why did you choose the screen name "BadHusband?" Have you been a bad husband? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it's: "I had an affair because you are a bad husband!" AKA number 3/4 on the top ten of favourite catchphrases from waywards. BH, Has your wife given you any of the following tried and tested lines which we hear from all adulterers? Here is my top ten of things waywards lie about
1) It was an EA only
It was a PA, but if I tell you the truth that will have to stop and you will probably leave me.
2)It was a PA, but we only did it once/oral/kissing
I minimimize what I am ashamed of, though there is no logic in doing so.
3)It is your fault for not meeting my ENs
This makes me feel less guilty about my non existent boundaries with the opposite sex
4)Our marriage has been miserable for years
This makes me feel less guilty about my non existent boundaries with the opposite sex
5)I do not love you - I love the OP
I have betrayed my morals and everything I once believed in. I must love the OP - or else I am just stupid for risking so much. Actually I am just greedy and stupid. Dont tell anyone.
6)I want a divorce
But I will not bother filing. This is an idle threat to scare you into submission.
7) She/he is just a friend
That I value more than your discomfort with their presence.
8) I need privacy, that's all
So I can cheat on you
9) I dont need an NC letter because there is no contact
Please dont make me give up my cake
10)You are jealous/controlling/demanding
You are getting really warm and I dont like it.
. I am sure you have many regrets about things from your marriage, but it is no excuse for an affair.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Thank you all for replying. I've read a few posts and you all seem to be very friendly and helpful. I want to be honest here, while being anonymous. I don't want to go behind my wife's back. I want to be upfront with her as much as possible. So I don't want to post details here without asking her first.
If possible I'd like to discuss the theory of plan A, without discussing details about my personal case. I understand if you think you can't help me without that information. I just respect my wife too much to do anything behind her back.
I understand plan A involves exposure, but say she's in the process of ending it, Dr H. said men should wait up to six months for the affair to end, before moving to plan B. So what can I do in those 6 months (apart from exposure)?
I AM a bad husband, I'm the reason she felt so lonely and unhappy that she had the affair. Not only I didn't meet her needs, she told me how sad she was several times, I felt guilty about it for a few days, but then felt comfortable and fooled myself that she was better, and slowly went back to neglecting her (subconsciously). This happened a few times through the years.
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A) It looks uncaring if you sit by and twiddle your thumbs. B) You can't meet needs while you are standing aside for your rival and C) Why are you giving the affair 'space' to thrive?
Women in particular lose all respect when their husbands are passive and not protective. Very good points. Thank you for replying to me.
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I understand plan A involves exposure, but say she's in the process of ending it, Dr H. said men should wait up to six months for the affair to end, before moving to plan B. So what can I do in those 6 months (apart from exposure)? Dr. Harley does not say "men should wait up to six months for the affair to end"; he says a BH should insist that the affair end immediately, and recommends staying in Plan A for as long as a BH can tolerate it. You don't wait for her to end the affair before beginning Plan A, and you don't tolerate the affair while you are in Plan A. Part of Plan A is requiring her to end the affair.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it's: "I had an affair because you are a bad husband!" That's not it at all. She feels very bad about what she did. She blames herself for everything, never said a word about what I did in the past. I'm the one blaming myself. Only me. I told her I thought it was all my fault, but she refuses to agree, and only blames herself. She feels bad for it, and doesn't want to hurt me. We didn't have bad words for each other (ok, maybe I did have a few resentful words on the day I found out, but no shouting), but she never blamed me or say anything to excuse herself. All she feels is ashamed and sorry.
Last edited by BadHusband; 10/24/13 08:14 AM.
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I'm concerned that you wrote "I want to give her space to end it. But it'll take some time" and "she's in the process of ending it." The only "process" to ending an affair is writing a no-contact letter and changing contact info (cell numbers, email addresses, etc.) so the OM cannot contact her. If she isn't doing those things, she is not "in the process of ending it."
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Actions speak louder than words.
Many waywards "Talk The Talk", but until they are exposed to friends, family and if it involves a workplace affair, then also to key members of the upper echelon staff, such as the supervisor and that supervisors upper chains of command, along with human resources.
If she were truly ashamed and sorry, the action would be complete remorse, complete openness and honesty regarding all cell phone and computer activity, AND she would immediately end the affair.
Don't wimp out!!!
Be the husband and man that your Wife needs by protecting both of your marriages together, rather than the wimp that the alien wayward wants you to be.
The sooner you take charge, the better the chances for a true recovery and building a better marriage than either of you ever imagined.
You will be advised on her putting together a No Contact letter that you approve of, after running it by the experienced vets here and also to eliminate and change any modes that communications between them along with other Required EP's, (Extraordinary Precautions).
Follow the advice blindly. You do Not know how to recover a marriage after an affair is discovered, but Dr. Harley and his veteran followers do. Your WW, (Wayward Wife), will only provide rationale to continue the affair addiction. DON'T follow a WW's suggestions.
You guys CAN deal with and overcome her initial anger, but you Can Not deposit into her LB until the affair is killed.
You are Sooo fortunate to be here so early after D-Day.
LTL
Last edited by LearnedTooLate; 10/24/13 08:50 AM.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it's: "I had an affair because you are a bad husband!" That's not it at all. She feels very bad about what she did. She blames herself for everything, never said a word about what I did in the past. I'm the one blaming myself. Only me. I told her I thought it was all my fault, but she refuses to agree, and only blames herself. She feels bad for it, and doesn't want to hurt me. We didn't have bad words for each other (ok, maybe I did have a few resentful words on the day I found out, but no shouting), but she never blamed me or say anything to excuse herself. All she feels is ashamed and sorry. Sorry enough to write a No Contact letter? Change all her contact details? Go NC for life? Be willingly transparent to you? I think there's a lot of TALK about her being sorry and sad. But she is very happy to continue with her A. Very happy indeed when you aren't reminding her about her inconvenient guilt. Her aim is to get you to play along with the A until she gets so disgusted with your passivity it eases her guilt. Then she can leave you without feeling too bad about it. Thank you all for replying. I've read a few posts and you all seem to be very friendly and helpful. I want to be honest here, while being anonymous. I don't want to go behind my wife's back. I want to be upfront with her as much as possible. So I don't want to post details here without asking her first. My friend, you are toast if you tell the addict what's going on. If she reads here that you've been told to expose then she will get to everyone first and tell them you are crazy and abusive and not to be believed. Expose first. Talk later. Her family should know what she is doing to herself if they care about her.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess it's: "I had an affair because you are a bad husband!" That's not it at all. She feels very bad about what she did. She blames herself for everything, never said a word about what I did in the past. I'm the one blaming myself. Only me. I told her I thought it was all my fault, but she refuses to agree, and only blames herself. She feels bad for it, and doesn't want to hurt me. We didn't have bad words for each other (ok, maybe I did have a few resentful words on the day I found out, but no shouting), but she never blamed me or say anything to excuse herself. All she feels is ashamed and sorry. She is gaslighting you so she can continue her affair. This means she is trying to pacify you to leave her alone, give her space so she can take her affair further underground (or in your case it sounds like you're really allowing her to continue the affair right before your eyes if thats what she wants). You need to understand A's are an addiction. The feelings waywards feel is excitement, joy and serenity similar to what a drug addict feels. She won't simply give up this A on her own, you have to end it and exposure is the best way to do that. She will say anytning to you to get you off her back so she can continue feeding her addiction, drug addicts and alcoholics cry all the time but its all a show. Very rarely do they realize their life is spiraling out of control and quit cold turkey. Also, it is very concerning that you want to tell your wife everything you plan to do. She is an addict (again) and if she is privy to your plans she will take that affair further underground and continue to gaslight you. Families trick addicts into interventions because they work, they don't sit and tell the addict, "Hey, we are going to stage an intervention next week for you in hopes you will go to rehab" the addict would do everything in their power to stop that from happening or circumvent the intervention. Expose, expose, expose! Once you've done this, then you will have a fighting chance to save your marriage, if not your WW will become further and further entrenched in the A and it will be harder to stop.
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I AM a bad husband, I'm the reason she felt so lonely and unhappy that she had the affair. Not only I didn't meet her needs, she told me how sad she was several times, I felt guilty about it for a few days, but then felt comfortable and fooled myself that she was better, and slowly went back to neglecting her (subconsciously). This happened a few times through the years. People dont have affairs because they are lonely and unhappy. What if you were in an accident which put you in a coma and had to go to hospital? She would be lonely and unhappy and you wouldn't meet her needs but it shouldn't involve doing another guy. I was cheated on and separated from my H for a year. I didnt start seeing someone else because I was 'lonely and unhappy' - because I was still married and have standards. If she has such little control around members of the OS then she should learn how to control it, and avoid flirting and being inappropriately intimate with the wrong person. What she should NOT do is blame you. You have a long haul ahead and you are going to find it impossible if you beleive every little fairy tale the wayward tells you.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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Is she conducting the A under your roof? How is she communicating or seeing him? Are you doing anything to prevent that? Can you answer this please? How is she conducting her A under your nose?
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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My friend, you are toast if you tell the addict what's going on. If she reads here that you've been told to expose then she will get to everyone first and tell them you are crazy and abusive and not to be believed. I know people like me come here and you think they don't know what they're talking about. But my wife is not a schemer, she's not trying to keep me at bay with words, so that she can continue the affair. She's honest with me about her feelings, and I'm honest with her. She'd never tell people that I'm crazy or deny the affair. I gave her SAA to read, I want her to understand the recovery plan and various other concepts, and tell her I'm committed to our marriage. I'm sorry I can't divulge more details now.
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Thank you all for replying. I've read a few posts and you all seem to be very friendly and helpful. I want to be honest here, while being anonymous. I don't want to go behind my wife's back. I want to be upfront with her as much as possible. So I don't want to post details here without asking her first.
If possible I'd like to discuss the theory of plan A, without discussing details about my personal case. I understand if you think you can't help me without that information. I just respect my wife too much to do anything behind her back.
I understand plan A involves exposure, but say she's in the process of ending it, Dr H. said men should wait up to six months for the affair to end, before moving to plan B. So what can I do in those 6 months (apart from exposure)?
I AM a bad husband, I'm the reason she felt so lonely and unhappy that she had the affair. Not only I didn't meet her needs, she told me how sad she was several times, I felt guilty about it for a few days, but then felt comfortable and fooled myself that she was better, and slowly went back to neglecting her (subconsciously). This happened a few times through the years. Dr Harley would encourage you to IMMEDIATELY expose her affair to family and friends and the affair partners family. You will not recover from this if you don't follow Dr Harleys plan. Ask her for permission to post here? Are you serious?
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My friend, you are toast if you tell the addict what's going on. If she reads here that you've been told to expose then she will get to everyone first and tell them you are crazy and abusive and not to be believed. I know people like me come here and you think they don't know what they're talking about. But my wife is not a schemer, she's not trying to keep me at bay with words, so that she can continue the affair. She's honest with me about her feelings, and I'm honest with her. She'd never tell people that I'm crazy or deny the affair. I gave her SAA to read, I want her to understand the recovery plan and various other concepts, and tell her I'm committed to our marriage. I'm sorry I can't divulge more details now. Try it and see how you go. I have NEVER seen a pledge of commitment from the Husband be the sole factor in ending an affair. Not once. Also I've never seen a good result for someone who was happy to watch the A go on beneath their nose. However I suppose you could be the first. As the consequences are going to be yours, it is most certainly up to you.
What would you do if you were not afraid?
"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.
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We see betrayed spouses come in here everyday like you. You are filled with emotion over this ordeal and can't see everything objectively and clearly. WE KNOW the behavior of waywards and its clear what is happening in your situation. If you want to listen to proven advice that will help save your marriage then you will find it on this board. If you want confirmation that 'Plan BadHusband' will recover your marriage you won't get it here.
If your WW is so honest with you then how did she engage in an A behind your back?
Good luck, and I hope you start listening for your benefit. The point of this board is to assist you in recovering your marriage with the proven MB principles.
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