Nah, I don't remember, but I wanted H to help me with filling in gaps. I am okay (now) with him wanting to stay planted in the present.

When I first discovered the A, H of course flung fault at me, and I think that I just wanted accurate historical honesty. You know, own it if it's mine?

It's true what Dr. Harley speaks of in his books...when he met a couple and they start with the complaints about each other, he said that it sounded as if they were speaking of two entirely different incidents.

I may not have said what I meant with this sentence. What I mean is I don't see a point to trying to fill in the gaps. (I definitely understand not remembering!)

That's okay Marcos, I understood your reply. Thanks for your response.

Feelings follow actions...it is finally starting to sink in a bit. Yesterday I woke up in a bad mood, all triggery and just generally feeling angry. No anger allowed. So I made a triple concerted effort to focus on positive feelings throughout the day yesterday, and wouldn't you know it...H and I ended up having a MOST pleasant evening, and I went to sleep feeling content.

POJA isn't just for making decisions...DUH...I know...we have read through the POJA info once on the site, once on my Kindle app when we downloaded the Lovebusters book, and we heard it on the audio CD with the coursework, and THEN last evening read it again as our homework in the Lovebusters book. We FINALLY realized that POJA is also for any conflict.

So we had our first trial run using POJA for dealing with a conflict last evening. We were respectful and gave it a good run. I was surprised and proud of myself that *I* was the one who was needing to remind us to focus on the present and future (usually it is H having to constantly do that). We definitely stayed pleasant and after an hour, we decided to table it and continue that POJA this evening. Looking forward to it!

Good job!! Our first efforts at POJA were a disaster and Dr Harley uses my H and I as the bad example on his radio show. [we are ones who had the fight in the produce section of the grocery store] The POJA was the hardest thing for us.

oh Melody I would love love love to hear that show! Is it still available?

I can see how POJA would be the hardest for many of us. I am just now starting to get it that it simply doesn't MATTER whether I agree with H's ideas, or he with mine...so no sense fighting about it. We both have (had?) a big issue with needing to 'prove our point' lol. Since nothing gets done without enthusiastic agreement, that takes care of that!

I don't know where it is but he said on the radio that he teaches couples to practice the POJA on grocery shopping because groceries are so non-emotional. Then he said, well, I did have one couple who had a big fight in the produce section. Joyce - shocked - said 'they had a fight over groceries??' Dr H goes, 'yes they did!'

Needless to say, we have never shown our faces in that store again!

Here is the whole ugly story: here

I can think of at least TWO times he has used ME as the bad example for learning POJA!

I believe I've heard even more than that! :P

At least one of them was in the first quarter of 2012 - I just re-listened through that time period, and I believe I heard it twice.

Oh man, I can just picture it when he read your post for the first time.

Whodathunk that tortillas and romaine lettuce could evoke such emotion?

Love the way that Dr. Harley cut right to the chase by saying (to your husband) just don't get angry with her when she fails the test.

Things have been seeming to go backwards for me for the last 6 weeks or so and I have finally discovered why.

I need help please knowing what to do now. H has been in contact with OW. It never ended. He hasn't been in physical contact to my knowledge, but there were 50 phone calls between May 7th and September 13, WHEN he did end it himself. But he did NOT tell me about it. Well duh....so he has been in withdrawal...thus the feeling that I am going backwards.

We use a GPS and he was always where he was supposed to be. I would show up un-announced at his work maybe every week or so, but on a different day and time. I monitored his phone calls and nothing out of sorts except for one caller named "Victor" who he said was a work associate.

Nope. It was her. It started as her kids calling (supposedly) and according to him, it was the children being angry at my exposure letter. He states that it progressed to the adult son's phone becoming the OW's phone, and so she could call him whenever she pleased (we had blocked her phone number). He called her as well as she calling him.

I confronted him two evenings ago and he lied at first, just like on D-Day. About an hour later I got the truth (???).

He has now changed his phone number. Also he has hand written a NC letter now (the one from Melody's thread), and I have it in my possession to mail it. What I need to know is if I am supposed to time the NC letter WITH the full blown exposure that we never did before (remember we did not find MB until about 6 weeks after D-Day).

I had done exposure letters to her adult children, but apparently at least one of those letters were not sent to the correct address. She is divorced since 2005, should I sent an exposure letter also to her exH? I checked the court docket of their divorce and he apparently did divorce her due to an affair (perhaps my husband or perhaps someone else as she was involved with more than one man at the same time). SHE told my H that her husband had abused her, but I realize that they all say that. She also told my husband that his second wife had died rather mysteriously (murder) and I checked this info and could not verify it.

Exposure....I never exposed to MY family due to my Dad being 81 years old with health issues. If I tell my own siblings, then they will let my Dad find out. I am the apple of my Dad's eye and this could very well finish him off. But he KNOWS that something is wrong with me now, and seems to think that I am hiding my "return of cancer" from him. Am I better off telling him so that he knows that I am not dying from cancer? Or should I keep going strong and hide it from my family? Our adult daughters do know and I exposed to my extended family (cousins) whom I knew that I could trust not to gossip about it. If it matters, my cousins all advised me not to tell my Dad.

My H quit his job after D-Day and went to work for my brother. If I expose to my brother, it is entirely possible that my brother will fire my H. We are already financially at the precipice of losing everything. Honestly I do not care because I've lost everything already.

I WANT TO SAVE MY MARRIAGE and I don't care if I have to live in a (rented) trailer lol. H of course doesn't feel the same way, BUT he has told me to expose full blown now. With the exception of her grandchildren...he wants me to not tell them?

H wants us to try to save our house and fix it up (it has gone downhill for 13 years since his A) so that at least we have something to walk away with.

H also is willing to try to get a job out of state (he is with the union, so he could get a job within 3-6 months out of state that may last for 6 months to a year, we have done this before. In which case we could save our house.

I also have the OW children's email addresses as well as "group" emails with other email contacts from their email addresses. I have zero clue if these group emails include people from the children's work, etc. Should I expose to all of those? I have not so far found any Facebook info on any of them. Is there a service that I can pay for to find that? I can expose to the OW's immediate neighbors quite easily. Should I do that?

Last question....do I wait to send the NC letter that my husband hand wrote? Should I try to time that with nuclear exposure? Or should I send that now?

Blindsided, I am so sorry to hear about all this. I would most certainly expose the affair to everyone. Including your father and most especially your brother. Your brother might not want a cheater working for him and that is his right. If you go to him with the news, he might give your husband enough notice to find another job for your sake.

I would expose the affair now and then send off the no contact letter.

Can you find the OW's parents and other family members? Does she have a facebook page?

Your dad can be a valuable asset to you right now. Let him step up and support you.

Thanks Melody.

Okay, exposure first and then send the NC letter.

OW is 65 and H says that her parents are deceased. I will do a bit more snooping today to be sure. GOOD point about her possibly having siblings. Photos of family never showed that, so I will do some investigating.

No, she has no FB page. And her children seem to not have pages either. Her grandchildren may, but I do not know their names at all.

What especially bothers me about this false recovery is that H did not come and tell me, even once he HAD cut off contact. He states that it is because he didn't want to damage all of the work that we had done with MB. I told him that he had already damaged it when he had the first contact and did not tell me. He doesn't GET it.

It sounds like he is just gaslighting you.
I think you should insist on a lie detector test.
He already sent a No Contact letter, will this be different?

How close does she live?
Uou may need to.move
I'm sorry.

Yes gaslighting. At the very least, fog babble. Sounds like he is proud of himself that he cut off contact. I guess that IS much better than the alternative, eh?

He didn't follow MB and I could feel it when he went into withdrawal. That is NOT me saying that I believe him. He is a fantastic liar.

No Jedi, he never had sent a NC letter before. We found MB after he had supposedly cut off all contact. This one is hand written by him and exactly copied off of Melody's thread. I put it into the envelope myself and I'm holding onto it until I expose. Working on more snooping for her family today.

I also did a half-acked exposure before. I'm quite fine with going atomic exposure now. This is war.

She lives two cities away, about 30 minutes drive. We both have GPS on our phones. He goes NO WHERE without me except to work. He quit his previous job where he drove past her house...went to work for my brother so that he was accountable.

My brother will be the first person that I expose to now. IF he doesn't fire my H, then my brother will also watch him like a hawk. My brother was also cheated on and left standing alone last year after 30 yrs of marriage, which is why I bet that he will fire my H. So be it.

Yep to moving. Originally, LWFH mentioned it first to me, and Melody and others, so I've known that it would probably have to be that way.

THANK YOU for your care. I don't know how I would begin to have any direction to get through this without all of you.

Blindsighted, I am so sorry that you are going through this. Your story is a prime example of why corners should not be cut when going into recovery. Please follow through on doing everything now.


This is why it is important that the WS change all of their contact info. Also, verify any number that you don't recognize. There are websites that charge a very small monthly fee for reverse look-ups. I find it invaluable


A No contact letter must be sent from the very get go. Even if they said "well, i sent her a text!". A NC letter should be handwritten and sent certified mail. Any further contact from AP would be considered harassment afterwards and grounds to file criminal charges.



Yes, exposure should have done completely from the beginning .



Ask your brother to not fire him and to support your marriage. Your brother would be a good accountabilty partner.


Yes, moving is often recommended and a very good way to leave the old garbage behind and get a fresh start with a stronger marriage.

Working away here. I checked Facebook before and found nothing because it seems that all of her children use odd names on their Facebook accounts. This time, I read a site that told me that I could also look people up by their emails or phone numbers (I'm not FB savvy, can you tell?)

Bingo!!!

I've got contacts now for all of her children, their spouses and/or significant others. I know for certain that the contacts are correct because the OW is plastered all over their family photos.

Also found a possible good friend that the OW may have worked with. I can't be sure, but it popped right up in FB when I searched that email. She IS from the same location. This email was one of five that the OW had on a forwarded email that she sent to my husband. Do I risk exposing to her even though I am not certain of who she is?

Do I expose to the OWs neighbors on either side of her? Should I expose to our neighbors?

Blindsighted,

Please expose to your siblings, to your father, to your friends, to your children that contact with the OW has continued in spite of the promise to stop and in the face of your very deep and real hurt and pain. Your father is unlikely to die having this information. He will be supportive to you and hopefully call your husband and tell him that he (your husband) is doing a terrible thing to the woman he promised in front of God, friends, and family to love and cherish for life.

Expose to the OW's family and friends, including to her grandchildren, if you have any contact info. Ask your own contacts for help in ending the affair by holding your husband accountable and telling him to stop contacting the OW. Ask the OW's contacts to tell her stop contacting your husband and wrecking your marriage.

Make sure the no contact letter to OW goes out! You don't need to wait for exposure to mail it.

Is it possible that your husband's phone be "adjusted" to receive and make calls only to and from certain numbers? I don't know much about smart-type phones, as I have a dumb phone, but it seems people can do all kinds of things with them.

The sooner you can both get away from there, the better.