Yes, he is hand writing the letter right now. He is pretty much copying what you wrote, Melody. Thank you.

I have a business already and he can work for me, but you're right (and my biz can go anywhere), I would rather get our ducks in a row and plan for that. Yes to triggering, absolutely. This summer was already horrible for me to be around here, and I didn't even know the entire truth then.

B, my H had a long PA that he buried for two years after my discovery at about 6 weeks, and then after that two years carried it on for about another year, even though I was extracting promise after promise from him never to see his whore again. He then gave up the travelling part of his job, but continued talk to her frequently for another six months until I discovered MB and exposed to her H. (In 2007 it wasn't clear from reading either these forums or Surviving an Affair that I needed to expose to his employers and get him moved and monitored, or fired, from the job.) After that exposure, the lies that they told each other came out via me and the other BS, and they appeared to fling abuse at each other and break up for good. However, OW contacted my H after about 6 months and they talked periodically on the phone at work after that. She was waiting to hear that his marriage had broken up, or that he felt that his son was old enough to do without his father, and so would leave me for her. Those phone calls continued for 5 years after the PA ended, without their ever laying eyes on each other. (I gathered this fact from an email I intercepted.) I discovered this continuing 5-year contact at the point when my H was due to take early retirement from his job, and so needed to set up email contact with her via our home PC, which was monitored.

After that D Day, it was only the fact that he was retiring and would therefore no longer have access to a workplace PC, landline or mobile phone, that finally cut off the contact with his whore. I have no doubt that if he still had a job - even a different job - she would contact him, and, given his strong feelings for her, he would willingly speak to her and see her again one day.

The point of my long thread-jack is to tell you that in my experience, and from everything I have heard and read Dr H say, your only hope of keeping your H away from his whore is for him to be with you full-time. Putting a DVR in his pocket is no real protection. How much noise does sending a text message via a pre-paid phone make?

He needs to take that job with you. After 12 years this addiction is too strong for you to be able to monitor remotely, and you cannot go through any more of this.

Oh dear Lord, I didn't realise she lived nearby. I was lucky enough that my H's whore lives in another country (Belgium, and we live in the UK; not a vast distance in miles but the English Channel and border controls make it hard for people to drop in on each other).

Mel is right; you need to be working on a move. Her advice of a supervised job with your brother right now and a move ASAP is the right advice.

Oh SugarCane, I am soooo sorry for what you have gone through. I don't even know what to say. It had to be so very difficult to share that all with me, and I appreciate it from the bottom of my heart.

That was not a thread-jack at all. Please feel free to offer any of your experience that you see fit.

I am TOTALLY taking you seriously. Extremely good point about a text not being heard on an affair phone.

We have been brainstorming all afternoon. We just listed what all that we have here to sell, and we would still not have enough $ for us to pay off all of his debts so that we could afford to move right now.

If he goes to work for me right now, there is a SLIM chance that by us working to sell off all that we can, PLUS working our butts off at my job so that we can bring in enough extra to cover more pay (plus hospitalization!) for him, that we MAY be able to squeak it out paying off our debts and be in a better position to have options.

OR he could continue to work for my brother and have that laborer go with him everywhere. That would be the best choice financially. But like I told H, is the laborer going to go into the bathroom with him and watch while he goes? Sorry to be so picturesque, but THAT is the time that he could contact her any time that he chose.

And Dr. H has said that withdrawal takes 3-6 months...we are betting that it is longer with a long term A.

IS THIS THE TIME THAT I SHOULD BE TAKING THE CHANCE THAT HE WILL NOT BLOW IT AGAIN?

So that is where we are at the moment, still brainstorming. We just took a break to do some chores around the house and we will be thinking still while we get some stuff done.

You know what? H did hand write the letter and xerox it. But I just don't even think that is going to make me feel any better right now. Sorry to be wishy-washy about it. This morning I felt so tired that I couldn't quite pin-point what I was feeling, but now I have a good grip on it (I think).

Here's the thing...the kids all knew what their Mom was doing and that my H was married. Those kids are not really worth another second of my time.

If I send these letters (that he did get all ready for me to personally mail), it is only going to cause me 2-3 more days of grief about this. BECAUSE no matter what he put into this letter, they are not going to believe that I didn't "make" him do it. That's obviously just the type of folks that we are dealing with. They don't care about others, or families, and definitely not ME.

How is that JC for me? I don't really want to be the topic of any more of their conversation if I can help it.

I will try to brainstorm some different JC for me, as I agree that I need it. I just don't think that is *it*.

Does that make sense? What do you think?

It wasn't difficult at all to share that with you, but I'll tell you what was difficult. I couldn't post to your thread at all until these events unfolded; it was too difficult to tell you that your heart was going to be broken again, which I knew it was.

When I read your story of a 12-year affair, I couldn't post any encouragement while you seemed to believe that D Day had changed your H, so I thought it better not to post at all. I think that a long affair becomes such an ingrained way of life that it isn't given up on D Day unless the WS is locked in a cell without any means of communication. Neither party to the affair can accept that they are never going to be in contact again, and all it takes is some means of breaching NC for their feelings towards each other to kick in and for him to disregard the promise he again made to you.

My H's was 8 years (PA followed by EA), and although I couldn't believe it for a long time after D Day, he never planned to leave me for her. It took a lot of piecing together of emails that her H discovered and sent me, and confessions, and scrutiny of hotel and credit card receipts and train timetables to realise the lengths that my H went to to keep his marriage going through the affair. He dumped this woman about a dozen time after either her H or I discovered the affair because he never intended to make a go of it with her. He wanted to have a home with me and his kids and to have her on the side, but that urge to keep seeing her and have sex with her was enough for him to kick me in the teeth for over 8 years and through about 10 D Days, until he was retiring from his job.

What was hard for me was not telling you this story, but telling you when you first got here that your H's affair wasn't over. I very much doubt that it's over today, either. He really intends it to be over because he does not want to lose you, but the moment she breaks through and contacts him, he will respond. I do know that much.

You need to move, as Mel said, and then be with him all the time. Nothing else will work after such a long affair.

Awe, SugarCane, well I appreciate your being candid with me now. THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Yep, totally. You say it so gently. It's such an ugly truth. The thorn has seeded long ago, and just like weeds that come back every spring, no matter how deeply we dig those roots out, it will always be there?

Can I ask what made you decide to keep trying with your H?

Ugh, Ugh, Ugh. Your story is ringing more bells. I was able to get emails back to 2007, and he broke up with her, she broke up with him. She broke up because he wouldn't leave me. He must have promised to leave me after our kids were grown, and then not too long after the youngest moved out, she broke up with him again. All of these break-ups seemed to last a couple of days.

Yes, the lengths to conceal. Like Melody said on his thread, sly like a fox, not a dumb fox.

Thank you for being totally to the point. Okay, so really that means that he must quit his job now, and he must work with me for the rest of his life. And we must move.

But I have to ask one (devil's advocate) question here....I can see the working together and being together 24/7...but what good under this situation will it really do to move? She could still find him and contact him. Or are you meaning that because we are HERE and he knows she is only 30 minutes away, that it makes it that much easier to give into temptation?

It is not only easy to give into the temptation, but as long as he stays in that environment, she will remain top of mind.

I don't know that I decided to keep trying with my H. It was more a case that he begged me to let him try after each D Day, and so I did. During the D Days my younger child's age ranged from 6 to 14, and I thought it was worth staying together for him. On the last D Day in 2011 I was ready to end the marriage, but again he begged me to stay. At that point a genuine recovery seemed possible because he was leaving his job, and has no mobile phone or laptop of his own. With her living across the Channel it is easier for me to know they are not meeting than it would be for you. Yes, she could come to London, but he is rarely out of the house without me to be able to meet her. He is happy reading his books, sitting in the garden in nice weather, taking bike rides, cooking and doing DIY, and being home when our son comes home from school. He meets me in town a lot when I'm working or we go out for cheap lunches when I work at home. Knowing where he is and what he is doing has made our recovery possible. His having a job made it impossible.

"...what good under this situation will it really do to move? She could still find him and contact him. Or are you meaning that because we are HERE and he knows she is only 30 minutes away, that it makes it that much easier to give into temptation?"

It is easy to contact people when they have a job. Both my H and I were/are on the company websites, with our emails addresses and phone numbers available for the world to see. I hate this, but I don't get a choice in the matter, and it will be that way as long as I have a job.

However, if there is no "company website", how can one contact the other? Even if your home phone and home address are listed on the Electoral Roll or somewhere else, how can she actually get through your phone to talk to him? You can pay to get the record of all callers to your home, and usually all calls from the landline can be looked up online. If you don't know a number that came in or went out, he has to explain this.

If he has no mobile phone and if all PCs and laptops are monitored, how can they contact each other? If you are alert to the possibility of a prepaid phone then you know where one could be hidden. It's hard when he goes out to work to find a phone, but easy when he is at home to know where one could be hidden.

The bottom line is that if he is thousands of miles away (or like my H, across the Channel with at least a five-hour trip making drop-ins impossible) and if they can't see each other without your knowing that he is gone, and if they can't speak to each other while he's in your company and if he can't hide a phone to speak to her outside the house, what point is there is having any contact at all, for him? There is none. The affair will be over, but until you create those conditions it won't be.

Thanks Melody. I do understand what you are saying, but I guess since I am FINALLY so beyond belief realizing how viperous (and near hopeless) this situation really is, I have to ask what will be gained even by moving? We could move, and he could just let her know where we are, and BOOM now I'm someplace with no family or friends and in the very same position that I am right now.

I am NOT arguing with all of you, I truly am not. I am needing help to reason this through.

Have LTAs recovered by moving? Are there any example threads that I can read and ponder from here on the forums?

Oh my goodness yes, and worrying about this will kill you.

I have a pledge in my mind never to go to Brussels again. That is where he screwed her, about a million times. If we went back there (and it is a place where people from London go a lot: to change trains for Germany, for a day out sightseeing and eating - lots of reasons) his mind would be flooded with memories of meeting her there and doing what they did. He might enjoy the memories or he might be unhappy, but I would be dying. I will never put myself through that. You, B, shouldn't make yourself live where they lived. You'll have a breakdown.

This is very true, and you must be open to possibility that he will contact her someday because he misses her.

If that happens, you move nearer to your family (not back to the scene of the crime, though), without him. The marriage will be over.

BTW B, I'm not impressed that he isn't busting his gut to receive advice here today. He's letting you do all the work and agreeing to whatever you say, to appease you. I think you need to require more action from him before you attempt recovery.

You're getting him a job with your brother, or you're giving him a job in your company. What is he doing?

I also think you should write to Dr H, urgently, at the radio show.

Pretty much what H has done each D-Day also. The first two times, I promised him one day at a time. This time I am not speaking so quickly. I WANT to be with him. I do love him still...I guess I almost feel more sorry for him right now, but I DON'T trust him and now I realize that we won't just be a "broken vase" with a repaired crack IF we can recovery...I will NEVER be able to enjoy the same life AGAIN. Ever. I guess I am weighing out right now with this realization if I can truly commit to living like this.

Again, wow, SugarCane, what you have gone through. How is your son now?

See that is kind of what I was asking about with my "moving" question. We actually have a setup here (because of my business) where we could literally go days and weeks without needing to ever leave our driveway. We also have a large pole building with Hs car stuff that we could totally re-vamp in order to move the business out there (so that I could see his every move). He already has been okay with never going any place except to work without me, so I imagine that he would be okay with never going to the grocery or gas station without me, kwim?

I'm just pondering in my own head if it REALLY is the location that triggers him, or if it is the viper thing (the seeded weed that he'll never get rid of), in which case....even moving may not fix that...

TOTALLY get ya on the job. And H is like your H in that he is happy with simple things. For most of our RA, he chooses walks with the dogs, visits to a park, a trip to the beach. I'm wanting to start bike riding, but the weather has already turned here. I would never have imagined that he could be the type to be "chained" to me...but he has done it for six months now.

I now have spokeo and will check every number. But that is here nor there.

Sounds almost magical, and that is not my making fun one bit...is it really that simple? And if so, then I really COULD do that without moving...he couldn't go anywhere without me if he works for me (with me). Again please know I am not arguing with any of the advice about moving...I am just absolutely needing to be sure 1)that I want to risk staying with him and 2) that I am sure that we HAVE to move so that I know in my heart that if I risk throwing away everything in my life, that I can have a pretty decent chance of the A ending for good.

x 2

Hi BS2013,

When I posted to WH to puke out ALL affair details that you still didn't know, he said there wasn't any. Yet today I read that there was more. Please get the poly done ASAP...do not wait. Perhaps your brother will lend you the money. Honestly, I would have to see A LOT more effort/JC from WH to move away.

Hugs and prayers to you.

What would be gained is recovery. This affair has gone on so long that I think you are going to have to move if you expect to survive. There are thousands of couples here who have recovered by moving. I am one. Moving away gives you the best shot at recovery. See, every time he even passes her on the street, he will be triggered and the affair will likely be back on again. That can all be avoided if you move.

But you can do that in a place that is far from the OW. In a place that will be conducive to recovery.


Ask yourself which environment the alcoholic is most likely to recover in:

1. the same bar he got drunk in for 12 years

2. a park in another state

I think you know the answer.

You live too close to the OW to be safe, BS. If you are going to attempt recovery, you need to get out of that environment.

No, you can't do that without moving. Living in the environment in which the affair took place keeps her top of mind. How will ever prevent running into her? You can't. And yes, you have to decide if it is worth it to you. But I seriously doubt you will recover if you stay there. And even if you divorce, do you want to stay there and see him take up with the OW? Do you want to see them around town together?

See, if you move away with him, he is much less likely to resume the affair. But if he does, she will live back at your home town and he won't be there.

You are going to be spinning your wheels if you stay in that environment. You will be both be perpetually triggered by memories of the OW.

I am reading these posts, but also H and I are talking. I want to stick up just a little bit for him and say that he has only spent about an hour doing chores here in the house. Otherwise, he has been talking with me for the entire day aside from the 45 minutes or so that it took for him to hand write that note.

I will suggest that he become more involved here and post again on his thread, but right now we are trying to decide if he can even go to work tomorrow. I just don't see how I can be comfortable, even with my brother providing someone to follow him around. Which he won't have someone yet...so I just don't see how he can even go to work.

I am off now for us to get something to eat again. I will be back later and THANK YOU THANK YOU for all of your honest sharing and helping to me.

I'm hearing you all loud and clear. black raven, what you said was awesome, thank you! I hear him now and get it when he has WW thinking. It is holding me back quite nicely. I CAN see a difference in his eyes, and in his tone of voice now today after you all helped so much. But I saw that before, and then it took him exactly one week before he broke NC with her. DDay #1 was May 7, their first contact again was May 14th.

The stuff that I heard today was so gross that I can't imagine there being anything more that COULD hurt me. I can't even imagine caring about if there is more. Seriously. I won't make you all by telling you what they did. But he *never* stopped contact with her in 12-1/2 years. He had originally told me they broke it off in 2001, and then met again and had last sex in 2007. And that after that it was an EA. Nope, They had sex every week (at least) for all of these years, and had even had it on the day that I did surveillance for the last time and then confronted him.

The thing on the site here about the WS not giving the BS all of the info that the BS needs to make an honest decision? Well, he was just FINE with my not getting tested for STDs. I didn't get tested as I'd just been tested because of my cancer, and so saw no need to get tested again a month later since I was the ultimate in STOOOOOPID and believed his horrible stories about the affair. H DID keep trying to talk me into getting tested, but I didn't do it. Obviously, little did I know that he'd only told me the tip of the iceberg.

Yes, so you're meaning lots more JC from him before I entertain the thought of moving away? Don't worry about that because we couldn't even move for 2-4 months at least. My concern right now is what to do about his work....

...my brother is telling me to let him go to work for him, and have his noose and see if he tightens it or loosens it. Kind of similar to what some of you have been telling me today to let him do more work for US. I am listening.