Why is that marriage counseling more harmful. Is it because they don't with the infidelity and the healing process of infidelity and thrust you back into the relationship?

UVA's War Post

This is what I wrote from another thread. It may be useful:

I prefer not to hold any punches when I speak, and what I say below may be hard to swallow, but you need to hear the truth so that you may act in a way that is most conducive to the achievement of your goals. Thus, what I say is not for the weak-hearted. Where I seem harsh, I do not mean to offend, it is to WAKE YOU UP from the big slumber that you seem to be in. I, like the others, have your best interest at heart. In the end, you will be ok and remember that you are stronger than you think you are, as will be discussed below.

What follows will be very long, as I gave a lot of thought of what I wanted to say to you and tried to come up with a fairly comprehensive strategy that you may want to put into action. It will be information overload and you won’t get many of it right away. But use it as a guideline and refer to it on an ongoing basis in addition to the advices you are getting from others on your thread. In time it will all make sense. So break what follows up in parts and come back to it from time to time.

I think analytically, so I will write in an outline form in the hope of being as clear as I can.

A. ACCEPT REALITY for what it really is.

You wife is in a full blown affair and you are, sorry to say, being played for a fool. All WSs at some point or another play their BSs for a fool. So you are not alone.

I will say more on exposure below, but for now I think you need to expose to your parents for two reasons. One, you will need all the emotional support you can get and they can be a big source of that. Second, you obviously need some outside perspective from all of this, and I think your parents can clearly point out to you what is really going on even though you are refusing to believe your own eyes.

So accepting reality is one of the first steps you need to take in order to give yourself a chance to save your M, to protect your CHILDREN and yourself.

B. You need to MAN UP

I hope you understand the concept of war. This crap you are going through is war. It is a war to save your M, to protect your children, and to maintain your sanity. Even though you may feel fear, you must act decisively, lest you and your children become the latest casualties of infidelity.

The weak may inherit the earth, but they do not win custody…especially if they are males. You need to be strong to fight for your children. Further, as some has suggested, women do not like men they perceive as weak. You will not win your WW back by catapulting to her every demand. Since, right now she does not have your best interest in mind, she is sure to exploit whatever weakness you exhibit. Thus, you are going to have to start standing up for yourself. It does not mean that you have to be rude, which is totally contrary to Plan A, but you need to stop being a doormat. A delicate balance, I know; a necessary one, nonetheless.

C. SNOOP

We know that there is an A. What you need now is proof of the A. The proof in my opinion is neither for you nor for your wife, since both of you know (and should know in your case) of the A. I see no value in trying to convince a WS that they are in A. If they are in A, they know they are in A. Trying to convince them that they are in the A is a waste of time.

Now your WW will try to convince you that she is not in an A, but if you know that your WW is in an A (as should be the case here), it is also a waste of time to argue with her about the existence of her A. When you have the proof in hand you can just show it to her if you wish—provided this does not jeopardize your source or legal case—but I don’t think that is necessary. You can just tell her that you know she is in an A and she can do whatever she wants with this information, i.e., the knowledge that you know what is going on. Don’t let her trick you into a fight on this. It is a waste of time and emotionally draining.

There are two other reasons, however, why I believe it is imperative to get proof of the A. One, you need proof for your legal case if your situation proceeds that route. Merely saying that you WW is having an A will not be enough. Since your WW is going to lie and say otherwise, you will need proof that can stand in court. You don’t want this issue to be just a he-says/she-says scenario in court. Note that even if the divorce laws in your state say that infidelity is irrelevant, infidelity may nonetheless be a factor in deciding who gets custody of your children. Moreover, since the judge is human, and even if the law says one thing, human nature will force him or her to take your WW’s infidelity into consideration when he or she deliberates on your case.

A second reason to snoop is to establish your credibility to those you expose to. Your parents will naturally believe you, so this is not for them. But her parents, and friends, others who can be influential with her, will be more apt to come to your aid if you can back up claims to them. A WS is a big time liar. Therefore, your WW is a big time liar right now. Just as she is lying to you now, she will be lying to those you expose to. If you have irrefutable proof in hand, she will have no where to hide and those you expose will have to come to terms with the reality of the situation. For these two reasons, I think it’s important to snoop your butt off on this.

How do you snoop? Well as others said, get telephone recording devices, car or personal tracking devices, computer keyloggers and hire a PI. Hiring a PI would especially be good. That would really solidify your case in court for custody, should it come to that, and open the exposure targets eyes to what your wife has really been up to. I know that hiring a PI may seem very expensive to you right now, but a divorce and losing custody of your children will be much more expensive than that, this I promise you.

Others are better expert on how to go about snooping, so I will defer to them on that. But what is clear, is that you need to do it.

D. Plan A: Exposure

1. Make a list of exposure targets and proceed to expose to them. They should be your parents, her parents, her siblings, friends of the M that can have influence on your WW. Later on, if that does not work, you can expose to the church you guys go to if you go to one or other people that can make a difference in your sitch.

2. When you expose be sure to tell the people that you expose to that your goal is to save your M and that you need their help in reaching that goal.

3. Do not threaten your WW that you are going to expose. Just do it. Do not tell her your plan here. In fact, do not tell her any of your plans in trying to save your M and protecting yourself and your children. Just as you would not tell an enemy your plan in a war, you don’t want to tell your WW your plan in this battle. Unfortunately, all WSs are the enemies of marriages.

4. Be ready for a big backlash when you expose. Your WW will say that your M is over, that this is the last straw, blah blah blah. Don’t worry, you will survive it! But don’t argue with her on this; just keep telling her that you will do whatever it takes to protect your M. Keep repeating this over and over as she brings it up.


E. See a Lawyer ASAP

1. Be sure that your lawyer tells you what your rights are, both for divorce and custody purposes.

2. With respect to custody, do not change your schedule with your children to accommodate your WW. The court will most likely give custody to the parent who takes care of the children and is there for them the most. As of now, that seems to be you. WW’s lawyer may told her that she needs to change the nature of the relationship that you have with the children, so WW can better position herself for custody at your expense. Do not accommodate her at all in this end. Continue to be the primary caretaker of your children.

Further, be sure to document all your interactions with your children and WW from now one. Again, in court your mere words will not be sufficient. If you document everything, however, the court will give me more credence to your contentions than your WW’s. Henceforth, not only do you write down everything you do for children and everything your WW does not do for her, keep every receipt of the things that you do for your children.

Also, when you document what is going on, make sure to write with a pen. A typed document will be given less credence in court (because you could have just written it just before court day). So get to work on this.

3. Don’t discuss divorce with your WW. You do M and your lawyer does divorce. If she wants to discuss divorce refer her to your lawyer. Be a broken record on this too. Do not let her bait you into divorce talk. Your WW will claim that she will do this and that to you if you don’t give in to her. Don’t take her seriously or listen to her nonsense on this. You have much more legal rights than she knows or wants to acknowledge. Thus, on the legal front, listen to your attorney, not your selfish, deluded, fogged-out WW.

4. Put your finances in order, and ask your parents to help you with upcoming financial difficulties that you will face because of this.

a. Separate your finances from WW. WS are known to deplete the finances of the family while in the throes of the A or when they are contemplating divorce or separation. You need to do this ASAP.


F. Schedule an appointment with the Harleys.


G. Plan A: Being the Best You Can Be.

1. Be as nice as possible to your WW without condoning the A. Do not be a doormat! Many confuse Plan A with being a doormat, and I vehemently disagree with this. Set up your boundaries without gratuitously being mean to her.

I believe being the best you can be will encompasses you treating her well. You see if you are being the best person you can be, you will strive to be the best husband, the best father, and being the best in whatever other roles your life entails. In being the best possible husband you can be, you would want to treat your wife well and meet her needs. Thus, you would try to find out what her needs are and try to meet them. You would be polite with her whenever you’re given the chance. To be sure, as a WS, your WW will rebuff many of your kind overtures, but that should not deter you in trying to be a great husband. Similar considerations apply to your roles in the other areas of your life.

But please do not confuse this with letting your WW walk all over you. A BS should never have to grovel to a selfish, unethical, irrational WS. Be polite, kind and loving whenever given the chance, but be firm and strong with respect to your boundaries.

In short, determine your shortfalls as an individual in all of the roles you play, and try to rectify them.

H. Get Full STDs Testing

Many on this site want to bypass this step, but I think for your health, your peace of mind, and the well-being of your children, you need to do it. STDs are alive and well in this country even though almost everyone, including me, wants to pretend otherwise. To ignore it is a big mistake in my opinion.

Most WSs have unprotected sex with the OPs. Thus, the BSs, when they sleep with their WSs, expose themselves to all the potential STDs that the OPs may have had. We have some cases here where the BS fell victim to an STD courtesy of his or her beloved WS. This is not a game, and as unsavory as it is to think about it, you must protect yourself.

In addition, before you have unprotected sex with your WW in the future, be sure she gets herself tested first. Since she slept with OM, you should require this as a condition for unprotected sex with her. If you want to pretend that the possibility of STD does not exist in your case, feel free to do so. You can deny this all you want, but an STD, if any, will not deny you.

I. Pray to God and ask Him to help you with this.

Although God helps those who help themselves, this is the most important step, in my opinion. He is greater than all of us and greater than all of this. It will be hard, but slowly and surely you should learn to put this, with everything every thing else, in His hands.

J. Some General Points

1. Do Not Move Out no matter what.

2. If WW wants to leave, she goes by herself. Your children stays at home with you, where they belong.

3. Ask OM to leave your WW alone, so that there will no doubt about how you feel about their A. Don’t expect much from this. It will be more to put OM on notice of your resolve to fight for your M.

a. If you can afford it, do like Bob Pure did and find out every thing you can out about OM. Find about his weak spots, and we can try to see where we can exploit them.

4. I think this bears repeating, do not grovel and beg your WW to stay with you. One, since you did not do anything wrong, you do not deserve to put yourself in that position. Second, a woman wants a man that they can respect. They won’t respect or be attracted to a groveling man. So even if your reflexes are to beg, stop yourself from doing said action.

5. Do not try to reason with your WW while she is a WW. As they are fond of saying here, WS are abducted by aliens. They cannot reason, and all they want is their next affair fix. You would be wasting your time if you think you can make your WW see the logic of your position. Just let her know your conclusions if need be and move on. (Do this in a non-DJ way though).

In the same vein, do not try to make sense of every utterance that comes out of your WW’s mouth. Again, you will be wasting a lot of time trying to follow the logic or reason of your WW’s statements. She is confused and thus so will be her words.

6. Unless it obvious, do not believe anything your WW tells you right now. WSs are pathological liars. As I have heard here, believe nothing a WS tells you, and only half of what you see. Also keep in mind that your WW does not have your best interest at heart at the moment; she is h*ll bent on destroying your M. Hence, as a rational person, you cannot rely on what she tells you.

7. Be acutely aware that what is going on in your M right now is NOT YOUR FAULT. It is easy to believe that your shortcomings in the M are the reasons that your wife cheated, especially when your WW rewrites the history between you two and blames you for everything. You may not have been the perfect husband, but you did not make her have an affair. I suspect your WW was probably not the perfect wife either, but yet you did not go outside of your M to fix your “marriage problems.” Her A is her personal CHOICE. People are free to make their own decisions. So repeat after me, “IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT MY WIFE IS IN AN AFFAIR; IT IS HER CHOICE!”

8. Again, do not discuss your plans with your WW.

10. Even though it may not seem like it, your M is very salvageable.

God Bless.

I did get rid of all the swords and weapons. Everyone knows, Our church, both our families, and Lord only knows who else. I know my daughter is mine because, my relative had a vasectomy before my wife and I started dating.

Thank you for your support and prayers.

I went and saw a doctor and now I am depression medicine and I am in a house all by myself with no real support mechanism in place. I don't even know all details but I know he's been to my house.

Many a vasectomy has been known to have failed. Get a DNA test done ASAP.