Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
Originally Posted by jessb115258
The manager�s wife told me what she heard from the receptionist. Apparently Emily told her close friend at work (some close friend to spread word of an affair) about their encounters and the friend told the receptionist. They didn�t share a room; they happened to have rooms next to each other with adjoining doors. According to Emily�s version of events�they had an early dinner with the client, she suggested they have drinks at the hotel bar since it was too early to go to bed, they got a little more than tipsy, things got flirty and she kissed him. My husband got nervous, said they better go up and they went to their separate rooms. After going up, she knocked on the adjoining door and they ended up having sex. They had sex again in the morning, that night and in the morning before leaving to come home.


This OW is out to steal your husband.




Originally Posted by jessb115258
I hadn�t the slightest idea she was interested in my husband since she�s 16 years younger than him and has a serious boyfriend.

OW is young, single, and feels in her mind that she has nothing to lose by trying to steal him. She has already shown you that she does not respect marriage. Do not try to fool yourself into thinking that she will suddenly stop chasing your DH just because you found out. She doesn't care. Read your post again.


You don't seem to understand the seriousness of the threat to your marriage.


Have you quietly installed spyware on the computer and your WH phone? Pls do this...secretly.





ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709

Your WH has already proven to you that he is capable of looking you in the eyes and lying.


STOP believing everything he says. That is a huge mistake and one that we have all made.

You need to start acting strategically. Melody has given you the plan.

I' sorry that you are going through this.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
jess;

I am so sorry you are going through this. Nothing you have experienced before has prepared you for this.

Once again, your natural inclination is to believe your husband when he tells you how this will be an isolated incident; how he will never let this happen again; how he will avoid the OW at work. But you MUST NOT BELIEVE him. He may even WANT to think this will be an isolated incident. But he no longer has control over himself or his actions.

jess, I know what I am talking about. I was exactly in your shoes 20 months ago. I WANTED to believe Taffy when he said he and his dolly would have "only business contact, as necessary", until he could get a job transfer. In fact, he now tells me HE wanted to do that. He sent a letter to that effect to the Dolly.

However, the very first minute he was back at work, he was right back to her, unable to control himself. Their A continued, in secret, for another 5 months, with him giving me daily reports/emails/phone calls to confirm that it remained "just business." All the while sneaking away for lunches, meeting in stairwells...

This is what is known as a "false recovery" around here. And it is even more painful, damaging, hard-to-recover-from, than your first discovery. You must protect yourself from this. And your husband, too. He can't be the strong one now. It must be you.

Follow EXACTLY the steps Melody is outlining for you. And do the steps to the letter. It is the ONLY way to recovery. Any deviation will result in more pain for you and your husband. Many of the tasks seem harsh. But, myself included, every time a betrayed spouse skips a step around here, they are back months later saying they wished they had listened and done it right the first time. Every time.

You can do this, jess. It will be unlike anything you have dealt with before. And very hard. But achievable. The ultimate goal is not just to survive this, but to build a better marriage for you and your husband than you ever had before.

Take the first step today, jess.



Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Originally Posted by catwhit
I WANTED to believe Taffy when he said he and his dolly would have "only business contact, as necessary", until he could get a job transfer. In fact, he now tells me HE wanted to do that. He sent a letter to that effect to the Dolly.

However, the very first minute he was back at work, he was right back to her, unable to control himself. Their A continued, in secret, for another 5 months, with him giving me daily reports/emails/phone calls to confirm that it remained "just business."


This isn't just a common story when affair partners continue to work together. It's the ONLY story.

By the time affairs become physical they have grown into full blown addictions. The addict can't stop while still in reach of the addiction.


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
Jess, if you won't take it from Catwhit (although you should), then please take it from me: If they continue to have contact at work, then the odds in favor of the affair & against your marriage will be overwhelming.

In my marriage, I'm sorry to have to say that I was the one who got into the affair. And before it even got physical, I could see where it was heading, and I actually resolved to try to break it off. But the trouble was, I continued to see the other woman every week, at a weekly music rehearsal, and every Sunday at church. And in no time at all, I resumed taking her calls and listing to her compliments & her complaints about her own marriage & her suggestions & all that crap. And I wasn't being straight with my wife when I told her that she had nothing to worry about. I was hooked on the rush of the cheap, no-strings attention, and it just got worse & worse from there.

The fact that your husband even thinks for one second that you can resuscitate, repair and build your relationship while he continues to work with her constitutes complete proof that (even if we assume that he somehow were being honest with you about his feelings -- which would be an extremely dubious & ill-advised assumption for you to make right now!) he has no clue about what it takes to save a marriage after an affair, or even about how to end an affair. And the fact that you're even considering believing him constitutes proof that you also don't underdstand.

If one of them leaves that job, then your marriage might still fail, or you might manage to save it (if that is what the both of you desire).

However, if they continue to work together, then it's almost totally certain that your marriage WILL fail, and 100% certain that it will never be the kind of marriage you want, because you'll never be able to get the doubt out of your mind, and this will affect how you relate toward him in an adverse way.

That's probably not what you wannna hear, but ma'am, those are the facts. You don't deserve this, you don't deserve to be in this situation, but it's what you've gotta deal with, and you'll deal with it better if you deal with the facts.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
Jess, in case you missed it, a dozen posts into your thread (and my apologies that we didn't get to it sooner), MelodyLane did you a very valuable service in mentioning the book "Surviving An Affair."

If you want to guess less, and know more, about how & why affairs happen and how people whom you'd swear would never do this sort of thing end up doing this sort of thing, then please read it asap, whether or not you elect to try to save your marriage. That book may darned well have saved my marriage, and I don't get single a penny for telling you so.

If your husband is serious about wanting to save your marriage & seriously remorseful, he should be damned interested in reading it, too, because as one who's been in his shoes, I can tell you with assurance that right now, he doesn't know jack. If he were so damned smart, he wouldn't be in the situation he's in now, on the verge of losing his wife & family; and so he oughtta be happy for a chance to shuddup, read, listen & learn.

If he's really serious about wanting to save his marriage, then he might even wanna drag his own sorry bum over here & start asking me how.

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,650
Originally Posted by GloveOil
because as one who's been in his shoes, I can tell you with assurance that right now, he doesn't know jack. [/color]


x100!

Originally Posted by GloveOil
If he's really serious about wanting to save his marriage, then he might even wanna drag his own sorry bum over here & start asking me how. [/color]


Actually GO, I'm not convinced he can be trusted here yet. the plan to give her workplace updates sounds a lot like a plan to continue the A and give his wife crumbs of reassurance.

Even if he is currently sincere, while in contact with her, it could restart at any time.

We may need to tell her to snoop further, so I'd rather she kept us under her hat for now.

When he's ready, you are the first person he should speak to, though smile


What would you do if you were not afraid?

"Fear is the little death. Fear is the mind-killer" Frank Herbert.

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,757
Jess, further to Indie's comment, if I were you, I wouldn't trust him farther than I could spit into a stiff gale right yet.

Originally Posted by jessb115258
...I don�t want to out either one of them at work, but I need to talk to her to find out the truth and what was she thinking sleeping with someone much older than her.
Jess... what in the world makes you think she's going to tell you the truth? C'mon. Do NOT approach her right now! It's not time for that yet. She is far more likely to lie to you than to tell the truth; and in approaching her, you'll probably say something that'll only tip your hand, regarding how much you're onto them & regarding what you might do next in order to try to bust up their ongoing affair.

Originally Posted by jessb115258
... If she seriously didn�t want or expect anything from my husband if it really was an isolated incident, why wouldn�t she just keep it to herself? ...

...I just want to know how he could jump into bed so easily with her. I don�t get it.
Who told you it was an "isolated incident?" Your husband? And who else? Anyone who was actually there? Anyone whose credibility is worth more than cold spit?

Look: Most affairs don't happen with people just having a drink and saying, "Hey, you actually look kinda hot, how 'bout we go to my room & screw?" Sometimes it can happen in the span of a few drinks, but that sure ain't the norm. Most affairs start with a relationship. It starts with casual conversation, it escalates to compliments, to mutual compliments, and mutual affirmations, and then sharing confidences, and it goes on from there. It usually involves a relationship being formed over time.

Your husband has known this person for a while. They've worked together. The office probably knows as much as it knows because they've probably seen cues & have got their antennae up accordingly. If she's blabbed about their hooking up, she's probably blabbed previously to people, during the run-up to their hooking up. Because she's excited to be in a relationship. (With your husband.) And hey, I've traveled plenty on business with groups from the office, and of the dozens & dozens of business trips I've taken over the years, it's been only a small minority of times -- maybe 1 out of 8, or less --when I've randomly ended up with a room adjacent to a coworker's room, no matter what gender. It sort of defies the usual odds, that your husband & this other female coworker would end up with adjacent rooms... one almost has to plan it that way. Hmm.

It's important for you to realize that most affairs start as relationships over time. They involve a lot more than just one instance of bad judgment! They involve a whole sequence of bad & selfish choices. This is crucial for you to realize! If you fail to realize it -- if you deceive yourself into thinking that she simply duped him without much aforethought or intent on his part -- then you're going to let things slide that you shouldn't let slide, and you'll fail to insist on his taking the requisite measures he needs to take in order to give yourself a chance to save the marriage, if that is the goal you choose.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
Originally Posted by jessb115258
I need to talk to her to find out the truth and what was she thinking sleeping with someone much older than her.

Talking to the OW makes no sense because you have no way to know if it is really the truth. What do you really expect her to say other than it was a mistake and will never happen again. She may even break into tears. Words are meaningless.

I am all for confronting the OW when it is done for the purpose of running her out of town. However, you cannot believe a word OW says. She will be in damage control mode.

I hope that you stick around. We have all been there and will not steer you wrong.






ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
J
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
J
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 7
I�ve been pressing and pressing him and he finally broke; when will this nightmare end?

It was a physical affair that started in June. They�ve been on three work trips together alone (he never mentioned she was going on the other two trips), they would go to sleazy motels during lunch hours, he told me was golfing on Saturday mornings�turned out he was at her place instead. He maintains it was only a physical relationship�he didn�t want to jeopardize our marriage and she didn�t want to ruin things with her fianc�.

It didn�t end when he came �clean�; they were let out for work early on Wednesday and he went to her place. This man had his [censored] inside her and kissed me on the cheek an hour later, asking if he could help with anything for Thanksgiving. What kind of person am I married to?

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,239
JessB,

This is considered an active affair until he is willing to commit to never seeing or speaking to her again.
Ypu have been repeatedly told that there can be NO contact between affair partners but you choose to believe his nonsense.
This will continue for years if you allow it.

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 900
Hi Jess;

I am so sorry for this mess you find yourself in. It is very much like my husband's A. He only wanted to hook up with her for sex, but ended up falling in love with her, during their 5-month A.

This A will NOT end until he goes totally no-contact with her. Your plan is as follows:

Demand he go no-contact with her. This means he must leave this job immediately, write the approved letter of NC, and agree to never see her again.

If he will not agree to leave that job immediately, you must assume that the A is ongoing. Even if he thinks he will be able to resist her, he will not.

If he will not agree to end the A immediately (including leaving the workplace immediately), then you can go in to Plan A, which includes:
Total exposure.. Read the Exposure thread on MelodyLane's signature line and follow it to the letter. You will be exposing the A to his boss, her boss, the HR department, and the CEO (because the company will be leaving itself open for a lawsuit if it makes no move to separate your WH and OW.) also, OW's fianc� and family, your family (including children over 4), your WH's parents and family. This must be done all at once. It will take some focus and work on your part.

Plan A is intended to show him that you are the better option. Be pleasant, try to meet his EN's but continue to insist that he end the A. And snoop. Read up on Plan A on this site.
Stay in Plan A only for a maximum of 3 weeks. Longer, and you will be endangering your health.

Do NOT share any of these plans with your WH at this time. He is not your husband, but an alien who has (temporarily, hopefully) replaced your husband.
This means stop asking him about what he is doing/his opinion/plans/thoughts, etc. You already know what a cruel, lying creature this alien is. Your husband will not replace the alien until the A has ended, he has gone through withdrawal, and the fog has lifted. So use this forum for guidance, venting, support and to get your questions answered. Your WH is presently not your partner.

During your Plan A, put guerrilla snooping tactics into place (read the operation Investigate thread under Infidelity on this website.) do not trust your WH to keep you informed on what is going on. And stop badgering him for confessions. You already know he will lie to your face.

You can do this, Jess, but not if you keep looking to your WH for support. He is an addict who needs YOU to be the strong one and pull him out of this A.

You have much to do. Focus on this. See your doctor about antidepressants, which will help you keep your mind focused, as well as allow you to think more clearly.

You can do this.


Me: BW, 57 fWH: 63 (Taffy1) Serial cheater
Presently on the Recovery Road, in the Online program.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by jessb115258
I�ve been pressing and pressing him and he finally broke; when will this nightmare end?

It will end when you start following our advice. It will get worse if you don't. It is getting worse now. When will you chose to take action?

You are walking yourself into a nervous breakdown by choosing to live like this.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
The longer you do nothing, the more entrenched the affair becomes and the harder it will be to save your marriage. If you are interested in saving your marriage, then expose the affair. Do it this weekend. Don't wait a month to expose it at work, but do that on Monday.

Originally Posted by Exposure 101
Exposure 101

Exposure is simply your most powerful weapon against an affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposure can be ruinous. Exposure is no guarantee, but it is your best bet at killing the affair and making it possible to save your marriage. YES, we know your spouse will be furious, but the goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wayward spouse's anger at all cost. Your marriage can survive his/her temporary anger; it cannot survive an ongoing affair. Read up on why exposure is so effective: When Should an Affair Be Exposed?

Originally Posted By: Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."

Originally Posted By: Dr Bill Harley"The reason for the wide exposure is not to hurt the unfaithful spouse, but rather to end the fantasy. Your husband's secret second life made his affair possible, and the more you can to to make it public, the easier it is for him to see the damage he's doing. Keeping it secret does damage, but few know about it. Making it public helps everyone, including the unfaithful spouse and lover, see the affair for what it really is."

Dr Harley tells a betrayed husband he is an "enabler" for not exposing his wife's affair: radio clip

Dr Harley tells BTinTrouble to "expose the heck out of his wife's affair" [exposure saved their marriage, btw] radio clip here

Exposure targets
Parents of all concerned, family, close friends, children of the BS, workplace [if a workplace affair], spouse of the affair partner, pastor. Facebook friends of affair partner.

Exposure Timing
Exposure should be done immediately. The longer you wait, the more entrenched the affair becomes. There is never any �perfect� time to expose, so don�t delay while looking for an imaginary perfect time.

Expose on the SAME DAY � or as close as possible � in order to achieve a tsunami effect. The affairees should be completely taken by surprise. Doing this creates a powerful hit on the affair and prevents the affairees from pre-empting you

Exposure Tactics

Spouse of affair partner- Give your full name, phone # and email address. Tell the other BS all about the affair, offer to share all evidence with him/her. Offer to follow up to ensure that contact is truly ended and ask the other BS to do the same. The other BS will be shocked when you tell him, so be sure and give your email address and phone # for follow up questions. ALWAYS GIVE THE OTHER BS YOUR WS'S PHONE # IN CASE HE/SHE WANTS TO CALL.

Parents, close family, friends � Tell them about the affair, giving them names, general timelines, etc. Explain you are attempting to save your marriage and would be willing to forgive your WS if he/she ended the affair. Ask them to use their influence to persuade the WS to end her affair. A way to save time is to call both sets of parents and send an email to the other close family and friends. Template letter posted below

Parents of affair partner. Give your full name and explain why you are calling. Ask them to use their influence with their son/daughter to persuade them to leave your spouse alone. It might also help if the PARENT of the WS calls them too.

Workplace exposure: Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee�s supervisors using the template letter posted below.

Facebook exposure: Should be done to the affair partner�s facebook friends via private message. This is a very, very effective exposure because it is a collection of the AP�s closest friends and family. SPACE THE PM�S OUT 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOES NOT SHUT YOU DOWN FOR FLOODING. Before you begin, copy and paste all the contacts into a WORD doc. Change your fb picture to a picture of you and your spouse and children. Template letters posted below.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,686
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,686
FB may still shut you down for flooding if you do this, so make sure to get the people closest to your WH and the OW first so as to maximize your chances of wide exposure to important people in case of being shut down.


One year becomes two, two years becomes five, five becomes ten and before you know it, you've wasted your whole life on a problem you can't solve. That's one way to spend your life. -rwinger

I will not spend my life this way.
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
Originally Posted by jessb115258
It didn�t end when he came �clean�; they were let out for work early on Wednesday and he went to her place. This man had his [censored] inside her and kissed me on the cheek an hour later, asking if he could help with anything for Thanksgiving. What kind of person am I married to?

You need to start thinking of your WH as an addict. He is addicted to the OW and, as you have now found out, your WH is not strong enough to end it on his own. He will lie to protect his secret second life and even risk losing his family. That is an addict.


You have PAGES of posts telling you that the affair will not end as long as your WH has any contact with the OW. Do you believe us now?


Why don't you have a GPS and snooping tools on him? How can your WH sneak away for hours to be with the OW undetected by you? Stop believing everything he says. Believe only what you can personally verify.


You need to expose and demand that your WH leave that job and commit to NC for LIFE. Otherwise, this OW will continue to pursue your WH and he will continue to give in. You will be signing up for a death of a thousand cuts.







ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,709

I know it is hard to stand up to your WH and that you want to believe what he says. Seriously, you need to start thinking strategically here.


I found the strength to fight for my marriage by thinking how devastating it would be for OW to become the step mother of my kids.

I know you don't want to share your kids with this POS. You have to pick yourself up and KILL the affair. That is your only hope.


ME: BW
HIM: FWH
Married 18 yrs
DDay 09/2008 and 12/2008

Recovered

Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 171 guests, and 43 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
anonymous2025, Miss Crystal, Muschalek, Lucy Martin, Liiyan
71,936 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Separation
by ScreamArt - 01/16/25 11:36 PM
Can I become attracted to anyone?
by ertoops - 01/14/25 06:05 PM
Advice pls
by BrainHurts - 12/24/24 02:50 PM
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,620
Posts2,323,477
Members71,936
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2024, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5