WELL....LO and BEHOLD!!

Today he IM'd me and FINALLY asked me out.

I said, "Too late, loser!"




Just kidding. We're going out Friday night.

We expect a full report on Saturday morning. Early.

HA! Of course

That is...IF we've finished our date by then.


KIDDING.

Ok, date news!!

He copped to some behavior that made me uncomfortable, wants to keep any relationship secret, and has sort of an "all girls care about is money," attitude. It had never occurred to him that girls sometimes feel the same way about guys interested in only their looks and/or sex. Plus I didn't feel any spark or chemistry with him.

Not a bad egg, just not my egg. Thumbs down.

"Wants to keep any relationship secret"


Tells me he might be married.....

He is not married. He's been divorced two years. We work at the same place & he's a very private person. But it wouldn't work for me anyway.

I wonder what that could be. You don't strike me as the kind of woman that gets uncomfortable very easily, not unless he was a creep.


He seems kinda jaded and selfish. Next!

OK, here's the scoop:

He's been seeing someone at the firm "in secret" on a friends-with-benefits basis. He's worried she'll squawk if he starts dating someone else.

It's really hard. I enjoy listening, I'm very tolerant while on a date and non-judgmental. Men always open up to me and I learn a bunch. Then I go home and think, "WTF!! Really?!?"

I have a hard time calling anyone a "bad egg." But he's definitely not for me.

I have yet to figure out FWB ... it seems like a really bad character flaw or the person is just really really selfish.

Seriously ... people in their 30's/40's engaging in FWB versus trying to find a good quality person to marry. In my opinion it screams extreme selfishness along with really bad habits.

A man willing to FWB says he is very emotionally inept at the foundation of building anything close to a buyer relationship. First it shows very little respect for the woman, and secondly it is a huge of ones unwillingness to meet the needs of a woman.

I guess you could classify them as that eternal freeloader who will likely grow old with a very freeloader (renter) woman...!

That just sounds like a terrible way to live life. Who wants that?

Yup! Creep.

It's surprising that you say he isn't a bad egg, he sounds like a downright rotten egg to me. I can smell him from here!

Very interesting that you look at it that way. While I completely agree, lets not forget about the woman's point of view:

Why would any woman want to give herself up to a man that admittedly doesn't really want a relationship with her. It shows how little respect she has for herself, puts her life in danger, and places her in a position where heartbreak is certain.

I can almost see the man as a freeloader because he is doing what men do, trying to get his needs met. But the woman is participating even though there is little chance her needs are met on any level, unless she is trying to play him and it's just a game.

ak

FWB tells me both sexes have little respect for the opposite sex as a whole. In my opinion If my boys would engage in FWB I'd be very disappointed in them because it shows such utter disrespect for women. I can't see how the FWB mentality doesn't show up in other parts of life.

If I did FWB in front of my children that would demonstrate to them my inability to show proper care and concern for another human being. It would raise them with this bad habit of disrespect, selfishness, and IB and be a big failure on my part as their mom to teach them proper care.

Instant gratification never pans out in the long run ... a relationship built on proper care and respect for that care is a key to long term success. FWB is not even close toproper care ... it's actually on the other side of it.

This is another example of where men don't use the same 'global thinking' skills as women. A man sees only the job at hand; I get something out of it, she gets something out of it, we can be discreet = no problem. It doesn't occur to him that the scenario is off putting to other women.

A woman realises she isn't going to attract a worthwhile marriage candidate if she humps anything that moves. You can be sure that female f-buddy won't be so candid with other dates. In fact there won't BE any other dates. The reason he's scared of upsetting her is because he knows he is taking advantage of her growing feelings for him. And he doesn't see any real problem with that because their overtly spoken 'arrangement' trumps her unspoken agenda.

Don't just walk away from this guy - run.

Completely agree, Indie. This really did turn me off because it tells me he's willing to "get" and not give anything in return. I do wonder about her, as well....why she is willing to participate.

Have already run!

I suppose I just have a hard time putting labels on people. I mean, his behavior is repulsive to me, but perhaps he will learn from it one day.

I mean, it'd be real easy to put a big scarlet A on my chest. But I sincerely hope I don't have to be defined forever by my terrible choices in the past.

He just isn't there yet - it's his life, his journey. I won't walk beside him, but I do hope he figures it out. He'll only listen when he's ready, anyway.

I guess I wonder, does avoiding DJs apply to our whole lives? Or just romantic relationships? I try to avoid name-calling so I keep good habits, but maybe I should draw harder lines...?

Totes!!!

I don't want to read too much into this, ak, but I wonder if this is one of those, "(sigh) We just can't expect better behavior from men. They just aren't capable," statements?

Our society accepts so much harmful behavior: violence, neglect, cluelessness, etc. I think men are perfectly capable of being noble and strong and caring. I am consistently saddened that we let them off the hook so easily. By and large men aren't listening to women about it. I hope they start telling each other!

You seem a good one...maybe you can tell them?

Well, perhaps you are right and I shouldn't be so harsh, but on the flip side, I wouldn't have made that statement if it was his past and he was moving in a new direction.

I agree that name calling can be a bad deal (I also avoid it), but there is a time and place to call a spade a spade.

I get that you don't want to call him a bad egg, but why call him a good egg? I think you would agree that he isn't that. He is using this woman, and was likely seeking to use you too, even if he didn't see it.

As for the scarlet 'A', that isn't how you are defined, at least not in my eyes. Lets use the Harley's example: You were out of shape, you made bad choices, but then you worked hard on yourself, created a new lifestyle and habits, learned new skills, and the result is a new, beautiful, attractive you.

ak

I think you misread me, I don't excuse men in any way.

What I was saying is that from a purely logical standpoint it makes some degree of sense why the man is doing that because he is getting his needs met, but I don't see any reason why a woman would do that. What is she getting out of the deal?

I mentioned this to a friend and she suggested that perhaps the woman was insecure and thus is getting some validation or attention she needs. If that is the case, then it makes much more sense.

Anyway, I agree, Men do need to make a lot of changes if they want to care for a woman. I was that man. I didn't care for my exWW like I should have. Thankfully I found MB and started learning new skills and habits.

I'm not going to live behind my self righteousness and pretend that I had nothing to do with the failure of my marriage, that would be crazy, but I'm not going to allow it to define me either. I know that I'm not that man anymore.

When the time is right I'll find the right girl and I will take very good care of her. She will be putty in my hands, and I in hers.

In the mean time I have been communicating what I've learned to my closest friends, but as you say some are more receptive than others.

ak

Thanks. I totally understand now, that makes sense. His need for SF is being met. What need is she getting met? Good point.

Again, good point, he is using her and that made me really uncomfortable.
(I don't think I called him a "good egg." - did I?)

And true, it's not in his past. It's in his present. And he's actually done the "secret dating" pattern 3x now. Guess it's been working for him.

Why, ladies, why?