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My husband and I are 11.5 years apart. I was 21 when we met (going on 22) and he was 33. He had just gotten divorced with 2 kids. Loads of history. If you asked him, he would say I rescued him. Personally I think we were darn lucky to have made it. Without a lot of personal development stuff in between, I'm not sure if we would be together 11 years later. (But as you can see, still needs a lot of work)

What we had in common at the time? Just a lot of vulnerability. He had at the time cheated on his previous wife of 14 years (it was 5-year affair). So it's quite ironic that I did this to him.

A lot of life changes this year - 2 new babies (20 months apart) along with a new job on my part (went back to work when our 2nd DD was 5 months, which is unusual here in Canada). Looking back, we definitely let ourselves go with working on the relationship without realizing it, and let quite a few rules slide along the way.

I am not at the place where I can say I love my husband so much that I have no thoughts of the OM. And I have been quite open and honest about that with my husband. I am grateful that he has the patience and love for me to endure this ridiculousness that I'm feeling. I came here and the stories here give me hope that I just need to hold out and recognize the withdraw symptoms and that it will get better. It's just getting there. Can't say I've ever been a person of patience, lol.

Thank you for being understanding, and thank you for being straight forward with me. I might not always like it, but I know everything is said with keeping the marriage alive in mind. And I appreciate that.


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
D-Day #1 - Nov.14/13
D-Day #2 - Nov.25/13
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Oh, and I forgot - thank you for the link to Mrs. Wondering's posts. I have read the initial one and very similar to my situation for sure. It's hard to believe that a 3-week EA and a one night PA could lead to this much heartache. But gives me hope that you guys worked through it and came out stronger.


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
D-Day #1 - Nov.14/13
D-Day #2 - Nov.25/13
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Originally Posted by rainheaven
It's hard to believe that a 3-week EA and a one night PA could lead to this much heartache.
Affairs are disasters. It is foggy thinking to expect less pain. You will not know the full extent of the damage until after you recover, and recovery will take a minimum of two years. Of all the things that can happen in a marriage, infidelity is absolutely the worst one.


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wife-61
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DD - 37, married and on her own
DS - 32, still living with us
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How's "No Contact" going today?

Your brain may be playing tricks on you telling you that you NEED and are ENTITLED to just one more last conversation with OM to settle things once and for all. We call that "closure contact" here and it's completely unnecessary. There's nothing that needs closure. Like I said yesterday, OM knew you were married and he's a adult, he'll be fine without you and you'll be fine without him. Just move on....and begin focusing on things (behavior) you can DO to actually make your marriage better. Imagining blooming where you are actually planted.

You and your husband should sit down together the next few days and go through and organize all your pictures. It's a project we always put off but now would be a great time to get that chore done TOGETHER so you can share and reminisce about your history (the honest foundation or roots of your relationship).



FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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It's going. It's still early in the day here, so just trying to get through another day.

Last week we did have one last conversation to "settle" things. That was before NC letter was sent, etc. We haven't contacted each other since Friday still. So day 5. But yes, my brain is definitely playing tricks on me saying things like "just see how he's doing", and silly things like that. Mostly, I turn to my husband and on here for support.

Went to IC yesterday and it was good. Told her about MB and she'll look into it.

My husband and I also do something called EFT (emotional freedom technique) that has helped us cope along the way. It's made withdraw a bit easier (we only started yesterday morning) and working through a lot of emotions.

I like the idea of pictures, if we have them printed, lol. It could be a project now smile

Thanks for checking in. Definitely keeps me accountable for my actions.


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
D-Day #1 - Nov.14/13
D-Day #2 - Nov.25/13
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I agree. Thank you for reminding me the time it takes for recovery.


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
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D-Day #2 - Nov.25/13
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RH,

Proactively offer to get a paternity test for you children, to remove that doubt.

God Bless
Gamma

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Are you and your husband going to take some time off together and get away? Dr. Harley recommends as many weeks as you can take on a get-away. It will help.

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Gamma - I offered just now, my husband declined. There are no doubts. Thank you for the suggestion.

Just - we did take last weekend away. Going away for weeks right now isn't possible. But we are pulling all of the resources we have available to help us through. I think most of us have all these tools in the box and forget to use them until there's huge damage done. We're planning another weekend away before the year is out though.


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
D-Day #1 - Nov.14/13
D-Day #2 - Nov.25/13
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Tap Tap Tap (EFT reference, I think)

You still with us????

Another week of "no contact" complete???



FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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LOL, it is an EFT reference indeed!


Yes, I'm still here. Still NC. Some good days, some bad days. Mostly, we're diving right into a lot of reading, learning, growing, writing, talking, etc.

Hubby is amazing through it all. Not surprising to say the least, he's always been patient and understanding. He comes to the forum to read sometimes. He might start his own thread soon.

We're currently reading Surprised by Love. Anyone read that one? Don't worry, SAA is next on the list.

Thanks for the check in again. Always appreciated smile


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
D-Day #1 - Nov.14/13
D-Day #2 - Nov.25/13
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Surviving an Affair should be first on the list.
You need to follow the recovery program in the book

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Originally Posted by rainheaven
LOL, it is an EFT reference indeed!


Yes, I'm still here. Still NC. Some good days, some bad days. Mostly, we're diving right into a lot of reading, learning, growing, writing, talking, etc.

Hubby is amazing through it all. Not surprising to say the least, he's always been patient and understanding. He comes to the forum to read sometimes. He might start his own thread soon.

We're currently reading Surprised by Love. Anyone read that one? Don't worry, SAA is next on the list.

Thanks for the check in again. Always appreciated smile

I checked out the book you mention you are reading first as part of your recovery plan. Amazon allows a reasonably good reading of the book.

The book may be very interesting but it is not a successful marital recovery plan, not the kind that will lead to a romantic, passionate, and safe marriage following adultery.

The wife divorced her husband but continued to allow contact. So he was able to get his fix of being a "good family man," AND have his OW.

When the H wanted to "see" if they could reconcile, the BW, now divorced, allowed him to move in with her to allow him to "test the waters." Meanwhile, he was still seeing his OW, although the A was becoming more and more troubling to him.

When he finally decided to write a letter of No Contact, it was written totally differently from the way Dr. Harley describes how it should be written. It was written with remorse about how he'd hurt the OW.

The WH continues to work on and off with the OW, doesn't change his contact info or move. The OW begins to hound and harasses them.

The BW unconditionally "forgives" her H without apparently demanding EPs for the rest of their lives.

I'm sure this is all an interesting read, but it's not a recovery plan from infidelity.

I hope you will ditch this book and stick with Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. There are many many books about surviving infidelity, but SAA really has the best plan for a great marriage.


Married 1980
DDay Nov 2010

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Thanks for the comments.

I was not reading it for the recovery plan (I definitely see a lot of differences between the book and what Dr. Harley outlined on here). I have, however, learned a lot from the book (just finished the book today).

NC letter and EP's are already in place. I'm not about to ditch them because I read a book that didn't have these things in place.

SAA next smile Then a couple of other books are on the list.


WW (me) - 32
BH - 44
2 DD - 2.5 and 11 months
Together for 11 years/married for 7
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Quote
I was not reading it for the recovery plan
And you were wasting your time. You need to be concentrating on a recovery plan right now. Recovery is a very narrow path, and you don't have time to waste.


Markos' Wife
FWW - EA
8 kids ...
What to do with an Angry Husband

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Also, instead of reading a bunch of books on a list about how to survive an affair, why not stick with one that is proven to work, IF both spouses will follow the plan.

After my H's first affair, we read books and saw a therapist. All of that work didn't result in a better marriage. My needs continued to be unmet, we still had love busters, and my husband had another affair! What was the point of all those other books? What was the point of the therapy?

The hands-down best program we have discovered after all our years of marriage, two affairs, and many years of misery is Marriage Builders. The best way to make a marriage great and safe for both spouses is to use the recovery program outlined and explained in Surviving an Affair.

SAA is an entire program that each spouse follows step-by-step. There won't be time for you and your H to read all those other books, which will have all kinds of other, conflicting, advice for you to follow. Select your program and stick with it. Your best bet is SAA. It's the only program we have found that created the kind of marriage that we have now.


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Originally Posted by rainheaven
We're currently reading Surprised by Love. Anyone read that one? Don't worry, SAA is next on the list.

Rainheaven, please ditch that book and focus on marital recovery. There is a very strict path back to recovery and most do not make it. If you don't follow the steps in the MB program you will end up divorced or worse yet, in a marriage filled with bitterness and resentment. Unless you create an affair proof, romantic, passionate marriage NOW using these concepts, you will end up in a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage; you will both be MORE vulnerable to an affair than before.

So, please take a serious approach to recovery and follow these steps. Individual counseling and books like "surprised by love" are a distraction from working on your marriage and won't help your marriage.

Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist with 40 years experience specializing in saving marriages from infidelity. His program really does work. I will give you an outline of his program in this post and an extraordinary precaution list in the next:

Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley in Requirements for Recovery
" The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details."


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thank you for the advice MelodyLane. I need to request you all to please give Rainheaven a break from the critical comments. She is going through some major downs and has actually stopped coming to this site because of the criticism.

We have to wait some time for the book as it has to ship and we have nothing at this time. We are seeing a marriage therapist and we are making progress together following as much steps as we can.

I believe we are STARTING on the road to recovery and are doing the best with the tools we have. Reading is a passion of my wife and I and we will read ALL that we can to repair the damage that has been done including SAA and other publication that WE deem appropriate to our situation.

If you feel that the ONLY WAY we can repair our marriage is through MB, then I will say to you directly - I disagree. I know of more than one couple who have gone through this before and been able to rebuild their relationship without having MB or the Book SAA.

Please understand I am NOT saying that this book is not an amazing piece of literature that will truly help us out. But the comments made to my wife have battered and bruised her emotionally so that she is withdrawing from even talking about her feelings with me - her husband.

I respectfully ask you to please desist...

Thank you.

BH of Rainheaven

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Bryann, I have not seen any critical comments from anyone on this thread, but I will point out that wild horses would not run off any wayward who is serious about recovery.

Quote
Reading is a passion of my wife and I and we will read ALL that we can to repair the damage that has been done including SAA and other publication that WE deem appropriate to our situation.

If you feel that the ONLY WAY we can repair our marriage is through MB, then I will say to you directly - I disagree. I know of more than one couple who have gone through this before and been able to rebuild their relationship without having MB or the Book SAA.

Then what is the point of coming on the Marriage Builders board and asking for help? Do you want help with the program or not? No one forced you to come here, Bryan. You came here on this board asking for help and people volunteered of their own free time to help you. No one HAS to help you here.

You can disagree all you want, but you have no basis for such disagreement since you have no experience. Dr. Harley does. You can disagree with success, but you are the only person who will suffer from that decision.

Your best thinking has destroyed two marriages, after all. I am not saying this to be harsh, but to point out that my own marriage did not improve until I accepted the fact that *I* was not the best judge of marital bliss. Like you, I had several wrecked marriages to my credit.

If I wanted to save my marriage, it was important that put aside my own failed ideas of marriage recovery and listen to someone who has been successful. We want the best for you and your wife and I dearly hope you follow that advice. If you don't, that is fine. But be honest about that so you are not wasting the time of volunteers who have already saved their own marriages.



"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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