okay, we are now 7 months since DDay #1, almost two months since he stopped phone contact with her, and two weeks since he heard her voice on an answering machine.

He has been saying all along that he wants to end it and have NC for life and build a new M with me.

I did the best that I could with this ugly thing, but I truly did not *get* it until about two weeks ago. I did not realize what LWFH meant when she said "entrenched". Perhaps I was too exhausted to see straight, perhaps I wanted to believe that it wasn't as bad as it was. Not sure. But it was and is BAD.

Not sure about other LTAs, but when Melody and others pointed out how "wily" my husband was, I still didn't get it. Even though I had been kicked in the teeth for 12 years, I truly did not understand that he was capable of continuing on like this ON PURPOSE. He was SO wily that he literally geared everything since D-Day #1 until September (4 months!) towards re-framing and getting back to his second life ASAP. Again right under my nose even though we did all EP's.

To be "fair", he did end phone contact on his own the middle of September (however, he did not tell me, and so that means that he was keeping his "options open"). Thanks to the EP's, I discovered his contact.

True exposure changed everything though. I don't know yet if it will stay changed, I don't even know yet if he is re-grouping so that he can find yet another way to carry on the excitement. I am watching every second and even following him to the bathroom now.

Dr. Harley, Joyce, and my brother all feel that he does care very deeply and wants to beat this thing. It was wonderful for both of us to speak with Dr. and Joyce Harley.

My brother is also helping us both in so many ways. First thing that he did was start getting back to the Bible with both of us. I totally needed that. By my getting back to reading the Bible, I realized that God will take care of me no matter what. My first loyalty is to God, and my second is to my M. This re-acceptance helped me to stay calm in spite of H's rants about withdrawal and talking in his sleep about HER (which he had never done in 12 yrs previously btw).

On November 3rd night, it was particularly bad, I sat up on the edge of the bed and I prayed to God and asked him WHY he did not just let me die on the operating table during my cancer surgery last year? WHY did I ever have to know this vile thing? WHY doesn't He just take me away right now and take this pain from me?

The next morning, my brother asked me where I had heard that before? I naively answered him that I'd said a similar thing when we lost our baby. Then my brother got quiet...and I realized that Jesus said the same thing on the cross. So that was my pivot point. After that, I have prayed for the patience and the endurance to do the best that I can to set the best example in Jesus's likeness one day at a time.

H is starting to tell me the honest truth now. It is the same general gist that he has told me before, but this time it is believable. For instance, he told me before that she never asked about me any more because he had made it plain that I was an off-topic subject...now he has told me that she had no reason to ask about me since he had told her that he was in a loveless M and hadn't had sex with me in 12 years lol. Sick if she actually believed that, and it's not funny, but that is why now he is beginning to see (and say) that he ruined two family's lives. He was SO WILY that I bet that he shoveled very many more lies to play her also, and more will come out as time goes on.

Here is the thing about the lies...they are LAYERS. I am suspecting that while in the fog, the layers are in a compartment, and he got SO GOOD at keeping all compartments separate, that he doesn't even see (yet) how many little boxes are in his brain.

It's easy to say that he needs to tell me the WHOLE TRUTH right now. But I see him shut down. I see it with my own eyes. It almost looks like he is having a stroke right in front of me. I see the disgust as realizations come into his eyes. And right now it isn't only disgust at what he has done to me (barf). I WANT to scream and yank it all out of him now so that my sores can start to heal...but honestly, I don't think that he has yet even faced all that he has done. And THE MOST IMPORTANT THING right now is NO CONTACT, correct?

It has only been two weeks since he heard her voice on the ans. machine, and from what I've read in Dr. Harley's newsletters and books, the fog can only lift after NO CONTACT for a while (probably a long while with a LTA).

My brother told me just yesterday that he thinks that H is about 15% to 20% of the way back, and that H is starting to finally be able to focus on his job and remember instructions from one hour to the next.

Here at home, for the last two nights, H has not had his "withdrawal" hissy fits, and instead when he does break down, it has been all about how he hurt others. Not how "he" can't stand this pain any more.

Just this second, H texted me "I feel bad 4 causing us so much pain, agony & insecurity". It's a start. Much better than the constant "I want to build a new M with you" texts.

H is also for the last two days visibly trying to meet my needs, and that is a welcome change. I know that I cannot get used to it right now, but I am valuing the effort for sure.

So...my "plan" for right now is focus on no contact every waking moment that I can. And take care of myself. And read the Bible so that I can keep my trust in God up and my own emotions out of this for right now. Any other suggestions are welcome. I sooooo appreciate all of you. HUGS!!!!

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of Blindsighted and Dumbman's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3

Awesome! Thank you BrainHurts!!!

You are a strong and good woman, BS2013. Prayers and hugs to you.

You're very welcome.

He did not ruin her life. That skank ruined her own life by screwing a married man. She was a volunteer, not a victim. The only victim here is YOU. Skanky is a big girl who can take accountability for her own choices. She KNEW she was doing a married man. I will reserve my crocodile tears for you, not some hoe who purposely and maliciously set out to wreck your marriage.

Thank You!

How are things?

Hi StrongerMe....

how are things....hmmm....

I know that it's been too long away from the forums, and I apologize to all of you for that. I HAVE still been reading. I just haven't known where to start posting how quickly things are going.

I guess that I'll just start typing and see where it leads...

Up until a week ago, I would have had to say that H was still in a big fog. I will spare everyone by not giving TMI about the things that he talked about in his sleep lol. It has (mostly) cleared now and he is a totally 1000% different person.

GETTING to this de-fogged point has been nothing short of heck for me.

Meanwhile, my brother has been the beacon of light for both of us during the entire last four weeks.

My brother calls me every day and spends as long as necessary for me to vent my emotions to him, and he also sparingly offers his sparks of wisdom. Sparingly is great with me, because then I truly listen and process what he is saying.

My brother also spends time with my H every day (on the job) talking with him and sharing his insight and LISTENING to H.

My brother has SINGLE HANDEDLY taken us both to the Light. I can't describe it any other way. He has to be employed by God right now, because this is above and beyond the call of duty lol.

Both H and I were raised Catholic. Mine was a very new age exposure. H's was a very old and unbending exposure (they still said Mass in Latin until about 20 years ago).

Somehow...my brother has gotten us both to go to HIS church (not Catholic) and totally gotten us both re-immersed in the Bible. We have been going to Bible Study together and to Church every Sunday. And this week H made an appointment with that Pastor, so we went there on Tuesday night and spilled our guts...MY GOSH WAS THAT FREEING! Pastor spent 2-1/2 hours with us and totally backed up all of the MB teachings (he had ordered all of the books after finding out that is what we were following, and he also spent the time reading Dr. H's site, so he knew what verbiage, etc. that we were following).

We have an ongoing weekly appointment with Pastor scheduled, and he and his wife are going out to lunch with us next Sunday after Church.

Where I am now: I am verifying everything still, takes about 1/2 hour each day. I do realize that is a "must do" and probably will be for at least the next year. H is showering me with meeting my EN's, like a knight in shining armor, truly. He is anticipating nearly my every move due to my intestinal issues (that are finally tapering off). It's like nothing that I ever had in my life from H, but I recognize it for love because my Dad and my brother have always treated me that way.

Now for me...I don't feel the same any more.

I am SO hurt from the last D-Day, that I don't know where I am. I MUST be letting H in a little bit because I felt some sparks for the last two days. Fleeting, like for a minute or two, and then back to my hurt...but they are there. So if I feel those sparks, then I can't be in withdrawal, correct?

If I talk about my emotions, then I can say that I just am numb. I don't expect anything. I am totally OKAY with us being over because I KNOW that I am strong and I am loved by God and my family. But all of the sudden I don't really think that we are over at all!

I am totally focusing on my own healing, but also I am being as pleasant as possible to H and I am acknowledging everything that he does. I am also meeting his EN, maybe not perfectly right now, but better than I did in the distant past, just not as well as I did during our FR.

So now what? After the first D-Day, I listened to this site and I stopped thinking or talking about the A. My pain lessened verrry gradually. THIS time, the pain is not as often, but it is more intense. I truly don't KNOW if I have all of the facts now, because I do not trust my H. Pastor asked me why I won't just let it go...and I can NOT. No way. I want into every single room of H's brain, every single thought that he had, every single detail, before I will give it up. 2x4's welcome, but you'll have to follow up with knowing my story before offering 2x4's please.

Polygraph...H is totally willing, but I am the one who is now afraid. My brother pointed out and rightly so, that H would not pass a polygraph. H can't even wear a watch because of the electrical impulses in his body, never could. Brother thought of a voice analysis, but I went and searched that info and those don't seem too reliable. H's story and his later TT was so repulsive that I don't even know that I NEED a poly, BUT two things....with as horrid as it all was, the worst imaginable after a 12.5 year "marriage" to her...one, I don't believe that she never flew to be out of town with him when he was working for months out of state. And two, I don't believe him about the way that they "ended".

How will I ever know? And if I can't know....can I ever move on to recovery again? H swears up and down that he has told me all of the truth, and really why WOULD he have held it back? But he totally took away MY proof of finality in the ending by warning her of the exposure.

So now what? I asked Joyce when she called back after we were on the radio show...and Joyce recommends that I just put it all in the past now. Makes sense to me...but I don't seem to be able to do that. Any ideas or insights?

How about calling on a polygraph and ask them, before saying no?

I would just go ahead and do as BrainHurts suggests. Call the polygraph place and see where this can take you. Either way, if you decide to stay on the path to recovery, this will all have to be placed into the past.

Recovery really is a journey; it's not a destination. It's going to take a long while before you trust your H again, and it will never again be the kind of blind trust of the pre-A marriage. Blind trust is never appropriate in marriage anyway, as we have all discovered.

It was many months before I could even tell my H that I loved him. Almost a year, I think. It took all those months seeing the changes in my H before I started to believe that perhaps it was genuine and lasting. You are only seeing the "new" husband for a week or so, following the de-fogging. Give yourself plenty of time, following the program every single day.

At this point of recovery, time is against you, but in a few years, IF your H continues on his path of recovery and Just Compensation, and if you do as well, then you will be able to live in your marriage without the resentment and deep hurt you are experiencing now.

Frankly, I confess that thoughts of my H's affairs and his past crappy treatment of me still come to my mind every single day. I wish they wouldn't, but they do. However, I quickly dispel them and replace them with the good things we have today. But there is no more resentment of the past, because the present is SO much better than it ever was before. The pain is (thankfully) gone, because our marriage is so fulfilling to both of us.

In a year or so, your H will seem like a different man to you, and he will be much the better for it. You are on the roller coaster of emotions now, but eventually, your road will be smoother and more even.

I left messages at three poly places today (I chose certified ones from the site that Brainhurts mentions). You're right, it can't hurt to at least ask. I can form my own decision about whether to take the chance or not.

I also worked on getting health insurance for me for when H leaves his union. Our plan is the first of the year, so we are pretty much ready to go.

A question about what I do now...I feel like I'm still in limbo since H's fog is so newly evaporating... Do I start back to POJA'ing everything? For instance...Thanksgiving...I do not want to do anything with family. I do not want to go anywhere and pretend that I am "normal" when my world has just gotten bombed again. EVERYTHING is a trigger for me all over again. H says that is totally okay and we can do anything that I want (volunteering at a soup kitchen is in my mind, or else a long drive away from here), but does that mean that he is sacrificing? Should we still POJA it in spite of the reasons that I don't want to go anywhere?

You and your H should use the POJA to decide how you both want to spend Thanksgiving...or any of the holidays coming up shortly. The goal is for mutual enthusiastic agreement. He wouldn't be sacrificing if the solution you both select makes you both happy with the outcome.

Copying from another thread that I did not want to t/j

Such great and hopeful input from mrEureka that I didn't want to forget it.
I have been having dreams or something every night for the last few nights. Thought processes going through my head over and over, and they keep waking me up. This morning, H encouraged me to talk about it, and the gist of it is that I am (finally) realizing that the A happened NOT so much because of EN's not being met, but because he didn't have boundaries and protection in place. EVER. EVER is a tough realization for me. I'm valuing and grieving the loss off a 32 year M that truly never had boundaries in place.

H said it perfectly this morning when he said that now with MB, we are both learning to have Goodwill towards each other (Dr. H's word from this past Friday's radio show) and he says that the difference now is that he is Devoted to me. I feel it. It's only been a bit over a week that I have felt it, but I do feel it.

Early in our recovery, I used to think that the affair somehow invalidated our prior 30 years of our marriage. In our case ENs were being met, too. It was the boundaries that were not in place that enabled the affair. So, I know where you are coming from.

In time, you will come to respect the good things about your past 30 years together. You will realize that the good outweighs the bad, and you will accept the fact that your marriage really has existed all along. Remember, the marriage was the part of the total experience that was real. The affair was the part that was fantasy. Your recovery will prove the validity of your entire marriage from the beginning.

Thanks LWFM, we broached it a bit yesterday on the way to church. It went VERY well�I felt safe talking because I felt that he was sharing his honest feelings with me regarding his Mom.

His Mom hasn't treated me very well since exposure, and H did say that he understood why I wouldn't want to be around her�to which I told him that I felt hurt that even HE wants to be around her�to which he replied "it's my Mom, so what should I do? Never see her again?".

I am hoping that it won't come to that, never is a long time, but at this point I don't feel safe having either of us spend time with her. So I asked if we could please table THAT particular POJA until we are further into recovery, and if we could just POJA this particular holiday season. He agreed, so that is what we will do.

EXACTLY! Invalidated everything�that is what I keep thinking also�so there is hope that will change! Thank you for sharing!

From your keyboard to God's eyes! I'm still not totally getting the real versus fantasy, because it doesn't compute to me how any of us could choose to live like that. It's obvious from reading these forums that is what happens�and that the wayward ISN'T thinking of their spouse at that time. I'm just not getting it yet how the fog isn't really "them". But I DO BELIEVE what all of you who have gone before me are saying, and so I am stepping out on faith. I am trusting that as time goes by, I will feel the same. And that knowledge will help me to heal. Thank you!!!

I need to be honest here and say that our ENs weren't being met at the time of the A.

BUT we are realizing that they weren't able to be met because H had stepped out of the M selfishly. I am speaking of even years before the A.

He had zero boundaries from the beginning. This is his realization also. It was fine when I doted on him, but then when our youngest daughter had health issues and I had to focus on her, that allowed him to become angry and feel entitled to do whatever he chose.

I suspect that we need to re-visit the buyers versus renters page. I'm trying not to have SDs and DJs to H by trying to "teach" him this stuff, and so I don't quite know how to broach it.

I am quite exhausted. I think that after being in a false R for so long, and now after finally seeing real changes recently, that my mind and body are signaling that it is safe to rest. With all of this church, work (it's my busiest season), bible study, and 3-1/2 hours of UA time each night, I am extremely tired.

H is going with me to my cancer doc tomorrow for my check up. I've already had my tests done and so I'm sure that they would have called me if there were a problem, but I am going to take naps each day this week. I will be hurting next year's income by not working so much right now, but church and M recovery are the priorities and I can't do everything.

It is coming up on 2 months since TRUE no contact, so I thought that it was time for an update.

H is mostly out of the fog (there are still moments) and usually a pleasure to be around now.

Now it seems that the "trouble" is me�I can't seem to get the same feeling as I did during our FR. H is totally falling over himself to meet my needs now. It seems to feel good to me for a few minutes, but then my mind seems to call "BS" and immediately goes back to that FR. My boundaries go up and I keep tumbling off that roller coaster cliff.

UA - we are getting 25-30 or more hours per week. Again, my causing problems here�I rarely feel relaxed or like it is fun when we are out. I think of protecting myself each time that I do find myself having fun. Last weekend, we resorted to my giving H a verbal request each time that I felt badly while we were out. Request for piling on the endearments (affection and admiration). It felt odd to us both, but it helped a bunch, and I felt relaxed (even if not exactly having "fun") for the first time in a long while.

H messed up on the EPs and IB last weekend. He found $2 in his pants pocket and he did not immediately call to tell me. I know where the cash came from�it was from us stopping for ice cream last week and I'd given him the cash and then forgotten to get the change. H stopped and bought a lottery ticket as a "surprise" for me. Oh man was I gutted�I know that to most, it's may be just a mess up, but to ME it felt like he messed up in SO many ways: by not telling me immediately when he found the cash, by not POJAing the lottery ticket, by not REALIZING how upset that I immediately was when he "surprised" me with the ticket.

I was heading towards an AO when my mind calmed and I realized that is not enough to chuck the whole M over�so instead I asked him to re-write by hand all of our EPs. He himself figured out and brought up that he needs to even hand over quarters to me that he picks up from the ground, so he has added that to the EP list. That made me feel a little bit like I could breathe again.

So we still have a long way to go. We did the EN questionnaire again last week, and O&H has moved to my top EN.

Back to UA time�this Christmas is very difficult for me because of how it feels for me to be "celebrating" with family and friends when I don't feel like celebrating. BUT�.H and I have turned some lemons into lemonade by planning some dates to view the best Christmas lights, and by POJA'ing each and every family visit so that we have secret signals to get us out of there if I feel badly, and also by POJA'ing the (lack of) Christmas decor in our home (I threw out all of our past decorations after D-Day lol). I honestly wouldn't have thought that I could face the Holidays this year, but we are taking each day at a time and running from expected triggers together.

I couldn't have gotten to the point where I could make this post without all of your help!

I want to take this moment to say thank you again to all of you who give of so much of your time to make these forums so valuable for all of us. I wish each and every one of you a peace-filled Christmas.