This is my first time posting. I have a few friends here that I know from another forum. I have been lurking for a few weeks now, and want to get some advice.

Dh and I have been married for 14 years, and have 5 kids ages 1 to 13, plus 1 on the way.

Dh has had problems with AO since the the beginning of our marriage. Things improved after our 2nd child was born when I learned to meet more of his needs. I also gave in to doing a lot of things his way just to avoid arguments. This really improved things for awhile, but over the years he became more selfish/entitled and started expecting more from me and getting angry over little things.

For example, once I accidentally dropped a pair of hair clippers that cost $30. I did not want it to turn into a huge ordeal so I just hoped they weren't broken and put them back where they were. He found them and said, did someone drop these? I told him I did and I was sorry and I hoped they weren't broken. I said that I would pay for them out of my money that I'd earned from a little business I have. He would not let it go. On and on he went over a simple accident and was even more irate because I had not told him. And yes, I should have told him, but his reaction explains why I did not tell him. The drama over this went on for days.

I had a newborn at the time (was just home from the hospital a few days, very little sleep and 3 older kids to take care of with no help). I was fed up and went to see a MC. I wanted to know how to live with my Dh, knowing he wouldn't change. The MC insisted on having Dh come in. He did admit to the way he acts (not yelling or name calling or violence, mostly angry/disrespectful statements and lengthy silent treatments) and something the MC said about "hard feelings" of anger, etc. really resonated with him. He was a totally different man for about 3 weeks, then went back to his old ways.

About 6 months later, we went to see our pastor. He asked Dh all kinds of questions - did I nag, neglect kids, keep house dirty, overspend, etc. Dh said no, that I was a good wife. Pastor said he was the problem and he needed to change his "leadership style" or he would end up alone. Dh agreed. Our pastor has worked with him and he began making changes.

This was a few years ago, and honestly, things have improved a lot. He is not the same person he was before, yet he still sometimes slips back into his old ways. I do still feel I have to walk on eggshells at times - even though he says he doesn't want that. And yes, he acknowledges he is wrong and apologizes quickly, but I am having trouble forgiving and moving on.

He has a new role at work that is very challenging and he is not home a lot at all. Everything for the kids/household falls on my shoulders. Then, when he is home, he is irritable.

A little over a month ago, I tried talking to him several times about slipping into old habits. He would either not acknowledge I had even spoken (imagine talking to someone and they act as if you haven't said a word) or leave the room as I was speaking as if I was not talking at all. When I'd say, "Why are you doing that?" He'd say, "I'm not going to argue with you."

A few weeks ago was my birthday, and that brought things to a head. We only had one free night on the calendar, so I told him the kids and I were going to dinner and to join us if he was free that night. He shows up and made it very clear to me and the kids that he did not want to be there. Didn't yell or anything, but just silently hostile. The next morning, he left money and a note apologizing and saying Happy Birthday and buy something special.

I just felt degraded. I really didn't care about him at all anymore. I stopped putting effort into keeping the house and cooking, and just focused on the kids and their schooling, etc. He left for a 1-week business trip, and I was glad. It was so peaceful without him here. I didn't have to worry about hearing the garage door open and waiting to see what kind of mood he'd be in or waking up in the morning and wondering if I should say good morning or if it was one of those days.

He apologized upon returning home, but I just could not forgive him. I was tired of the whole thing and just looking forward to when he would be leaving town again. I have thought about moving all my stuff into our guest room and sleeping there.

He has been apologetic and I believe he is sincere. I believe he wants to change. I just don't think he understands that I can't handle his negativity anymore. I am no longer interested in arguing about mostly nothing, defending simple mistakes or misjudgments, etc. I can't just switch back and forth from being this terrible wife who messes everything up to being his BFF anymore, even if the incidents are not as frequent and he does apologize more quickly.

So I am not really sure where we go from here as far as correcting things. He is a wonderful man in many ways and a great father. And I love him and I love our life. I want to stay married.

Any suggestions?

Hi Jazzymom, welcome to Marriage Builders. You are in the right place. My suggestion would be to ramp up your actions and get into the Marriage Builders program if you can swing this. I think you need a trained coach who will take you and your husband through the program step by step until his habits and your habits are changed. You are in the habit of capitulation and he is in the habit of neglect along with a multitude of lovebusters. I think you have both tried do it yourself and that has not worked.

My H and I went through the MB program in 2007 and it made an amazing difference. One benefit is that your coach and Dr Harley would hold your husband accountable to make these changes. And if he does not follow through, they would recommend separation as a last resort to save the marriage.

One alarming thing I see in your marriage is that it is not a partnership, but somewhat of a dictatorship, where he is the "leader." Those types of marriages are not successful. The MB program has a better solution, which is shared leadership through the policy of joint agreement.

This article describes how this works: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Here is the Marriage Builders program I suggested above: here

Thank you, Melody. I think you are right that we've both done as much as we know how to do on our own. We're supposed to be snowed/iced in together for the next couple of days so I will have a talk with him about doing the program.

Can I suggest that in addition to following Mel's advice, you do some quiet snooping. The reason I suggest this is that a sudden change in behaviour can be a sign of an affair. Especially the kind of behaviour that you describe; irritability and lack of free time.

Look for texts on his phone and emails on his computer. Think about whether he has any unaccounted for time in his day. Come back here and let us know if you find anything (do not confront him). We will help you with the next step.

Best of luck to you.

Welcome to MB, Jazzy. Have you read the basic concepts (particularly the article on the Policy of Joint Agreement)?

Apologies are easy to make, and essentially mean little. I, too, was married to an angry/controlling man. Markos used to apologize all the time, as well, to the point that it made me feel ill to just hear "I'm sorry." What you need to see is change in his behavior.

If he is really sincere, then he will be willing to learn to treat you differently.

I second Melody's recommendation for the online program -- it saved my marriage. I think accountability is going to be essential for your husband. Let us know if he refuses to look at the program, and we'll help you. Honestly, if he will not make an effort to protect you, then there isn't much hope for your marriage.

Will your husband come post here?

How much time together do the two of you get alone (without kids) each week? What do you spend that time doing?

These are red flags for an affair. Quietly snoop and see if you find anything suspicious. You may find nothing, but it's a good idea to check.

Are you on a parenting board? "Jazzy" looks familiar to me.

Yes! Markos posted about MB over there a long, long time ago. So when Dh and I started struggling again, I started lurking over here and decided to ask for advice.

I had to ask him for his password in order to check his email. I made up an excuse and he didn't hesitate to share it. Nothing there. Nothing on his cell phone, either. All work stuff.

He is very driven and really likes to work. He has always been that way. Also, he has always travelled for work to varying degrees. I didn't realize that was harmful to marriage until I started reading here.

The 1-week trip was a for a huge business fair that his company holds annually, so I know it was legit. He was part of hosting it this year, and my birthday dinner was the Thursday before he left, which is why he was behaving so rudely. He would have rather been doing last minute prep for that event and also had a lot riding on it. I understood the stress he was under, I just didn't feel his behavior was justified and he agrees. He did invite us to come down with him last minute, but I was already upset with him about the birthday stuff and didn't want to spend the week with all the kids in a hotel room.

He had an opportunity to go hunting Thanksgiving weekend and early that week and tuned it down to stay here. We were together all week with no suspicious activity, no texting or phone calls. He had to do 1 work errand, but took us with him.

I don't think there is anything going on, but I appreciate the advice to check.

We spend very little time alone together, and do not even eat dinner together during the week.

He travels some for work and sometimes works late. And when he does get home at a decent time during the week, we are always running the older kids to and from various sports games and practices. By the time we get home, it is time to get everyone in bed and go to bed ourselves. We are together on weekends, but we usually have outside obligations, sports practices/games, church, etc.

I have been reading about UA time and I think that is a large part of the problem.

I can honestly say that he really has improved over the years, but I think my tolerance level is much lower because we do not have that time together to rebuild the love bank.

He has acknowledged the need to work less and we both feel the kids activities are consuming way too much of our time. I have been thinking about that quite a bit, and I am going to actively look for ways to scale back and get UA time weekly. We also have the money to do short getaways, and I need to be proactive about planning them and doing them. This would be good for us as a family and for getting him away from work. The kids go to bed early, so even if we bring them with us, we would have some time alone.

I don't think he will make time to post here, but he is usually open to acting on advice. My only concern about the online MB program is the cost, but I am going to talk to him about it tomorrow or Saturday, after he wraps up work for the week. I do think the accountability could help. If he is not open to it I will post for help.

How many hours per week are spent on the online program?

He needs to commit about 25 hours a week to your marriage. That would include your undivided attention time. The way to achieve this is to FIRST schedule your dates. Start off with 4 - 4 hour dates per week. Then plan about 10 hours per week to work on the MB lessons.

After that, he can schedule his work and other activities like church, kids events, etc. It is critical that your time together be scheduled FIRST and all these less important things come next.

Dr Harley would tell him to either give up traveling altogether or find a way to take you with him.

Exactly! It is because your lovebank is in the RED. You could afford the occasional withdrawal as long as your balance was in the black, but he is way, way overdrawn.

One of the main reasons the online course would be perfect for you is because Dr Harley is also a Christian. This program is based on Christian principles. Dr Harley can motivate him to follow this program.

So, EVERYTHING comes before your marriage. It is no wonder that your marriage is dying a slow death since it is so neglected. MB would change this. Nothing would come before your marriage.

Hi, Jazzy - it's good to see you again. Sorry about the circumstances that bring you here.

I agree with the advice to quietly check up on your husband and make sure there is noone else in his life. This is actually good marital behavior in general, according to Dr. Harley. Should you ever find anything - RUN back here and let us know - experienced Marriage Builders posters will help you walk through what needs to be done in such a case.

It really stands out to me that when you went to a marriage counselor and wanted to be seen alone to learn how to live with the situation, the counselor insisted on seeing your husband anyway. And when you went to your pastor, your pastor's comment to your husband was that if he didn't change his "leadership style," he'd soon end up alone and leading noone! (I would say that "leadership style" is a real euphemism for ABUSE and control, there, and I say that as someone who has been personally guilty of exactly the same thing.)

It also really stands out to me how you say you feel much better with him gone. I've heard Dr. Harley mention several cases where women live with a husband who has angry outbursts and is disrespectful and demanding and how, when they spent time without their husbands for some reason, they start to feel much better - and didn't even realize how bad they were feeling. And their thinking begins to change. They start to realize just what a problem their husband's behavior is for them. And really, demands, disrespect, and anger are a death knell to any marriage. That is why Dr. Harley labels all three of these as abuse. (Again, I say this as a former abuser. And Prisca will confess she has been guilty of the same things.)

I know that this change in feeling that you have when your husband is gone is a real red flag to you - it's an indicator of just how bad things have gotten and how far you have grown apart in your marriage, when the intent was to be one. Take a look a minute at the Marriage Builders logo, and you'll see what I'm getting at. In a marriage where husband and wife are practicing extraordinary care for each other, and protecting each other from their hurtful behaviors, the result is the feeling of romantic love, a feeling of oneness and unity, and an ability to face life in harmony and make joint decisions that are pleasing to both husband and wife.

I'm glad to see that you are reading about UA time. You are right to focus on this as the solution for this feeling you are having. As MelodyLane observed, everything else in life is being placed before your marriage: job, children, sports, church, everything. But in marriage as God intended it, married people put each other first. Read through I Corinthians 7 as it talks about the difference between married people and single people. A married man cannot have the same focus as a single man, because he has been given an important job by God: to please his wife (http://biblehub.com/1_corinthians/7-33.htm). And likewise a married woman also has been commanded by God to put her husband first. Sometimes this passage of the Bible is mistaught as if this is a bad thing, as if married people should not spend so much time pleasing each other, and should instead live like single people, as if this is somehow more spiritual. But if that's how God wants married people to live, how is marriage a blessing? How can He use them to bless each other if they refuse to do so, and call it "spiritual"?

And is church really supposed to come before the love God commands in a marriage and in a family? It sure doesn't look like it to me in Matthew 5: "So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift." It's pretty clear here that relationships come before worship. And if that's true of regular relationships - how much more for MARRIAGE, which God intends as a picture of His relationship with the church? And if it's true as Jesus says in Matthew 15 that God does not want us using Him as an excuse not to honor parents - how much MORE is it true that God doesn't church to get in the way of MARRIAGE?

I think you're right to look for ways to scale back - cut it all back until your marriage is healed! There's simply no other way to survive.

And I think it's great that you're looking into the online program - it sounds like there's a good chance your husband will be receptive to all of this, but needs some accountability to help him eliminate the habits that are tearing down his household and build new habits that will build your marriage together.

Let me share another great resource with you - the Marriage Builders radio show:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Do you think you could get your husband to listen? A lot of men seem to be less likely to read or post, but are very open to audio resources. Listening to the show has been one of the best things that has helped us. (Frankly, I needed a couple hundred hours of repetition to get some of these things, but maybe I'm just a little slow....)

Dr. Harley really stressed with me that demands, disrespect, or angry outbursts are never justified in marriage. Not under any circumstances.

First, I want to say that I appreciate all the advice you guys have given. I am sorry I have not been back before now. I wanted to report back when there had been a change for the better.

Unfortunately, things are worse.

Once I found out how much time was required for the online coaching, I decided to wait until Christmas break, when we had extra money and things were really peaceful, to bring it up to my husband, in hopes he would agree.

On Saturday, two weeks ago, my husband confronted me very angrily about having overspent our budget in Nov and Dec. I did overspend, and I was sorry about it, but he made such a big deal about it and said all of these really hurtful things. My husband makes ALOT of money. We have never had any financial problems the overspending did not hurt us at all. I was made out to be this terrible person (threats to not show me financials, take me off bank accounts, etc.), when I am not that bad at all. This is a common reaction to mistakes on my part. Everything is made out to be a HUGE deal.

So I moved into the guest room to avoid his negativity. He apologized for his words and behavior, and asked me to move back into our room several times, but I didn't. I did miss him and wished we could be in the same room together, but I felt I should stay here until we could make progress. For the most part, it kept him from LB'ing and helped me feel better about him.

We had both agreed that the argument before I moved out of our room had nothing to do with money, but Wednesday, he printed out a "budget" for the year and kept emphasizing how much I had spent over the year (this is for mine and the kids needs - I am not a shopaholic or anything AT ALL). I just said okay and tried to ignore it. I did not feel like arguing or defending myself.

He is about to get back to work again, so last night, I wanted to try one last time to talk to him in general about our relationship and how we could improve things moving forward. He was not really interested in talking about it.

This morning I woke up and I was very angry and had an AO of my own. He responded in kind. I tried to calm things down and explain why I was frustrated. I mentioned the incident 2 weeks ago and some things that been happening over the past 3 months. He accused me of dwelling in the past and started bringing up things from 15 years ago.

I told him that maybe I just needed to find a place for me and the kids to stay, and we could reach an agreement on finances. (I cannot stay in this house - I would not even be able to pay the mortgage based on what he would have to give me for child support.) He said to just do what I need to do and there would be no agreement.

Are we at the point where we should separate?

I really don't want a divorce, and I'm scared that's where separation will lead.

Jazzy, I am glad we have heard back from you, but sorry to hear it is under such circumstances. I think you guys should get some help very soon. I would go to your husband, let him know that you don't want either of you to have to put up with angry outbursts any more, and present this Marriage Builders plan to him as a means of changing both of you to avoid that and to rebuild your marriage. I wouldn't wait!

There really has to be a whole shifting of values about angry outbursts - both of you need to come to see them as something that should never be tolerated in marriage, regardless of what the other person did. When Prisca does something that bothers me, I simply tell her - I don't have an angry outburst, or get disrespectful, or make demands. And vice versa. The conflicts don't fester because we deal with them quickly and because we are extremely committed to resolving all of them in a way we are both enthusiastic about and with no demands, disrespect, or anger.

Can you send Dr. Harley an email on his radio program? The email address is mbradio@marriagebuilders.com . That address will reach Dr. Harley's wife, Joyce. Tell them Prisca and I sent you.

Please stick around and keep posting until we get a plan of action for you to make this better.

What we need to get both you and your husband to do is to realize that when you feel a certain way, you don't have to act on it. When you feel frustrated, it does not mean you have to have an angry outburst. In fact, Dr. Harley's procedure for overcoming angry outbursts is mainly to learn to relax and to do nothing when you feel frustrated other than to relax.

If an angry outburst is temporary insanity, then when you feel angry, you really should not say or do anything, because everything you are thinking of doing or saying is, by definition, insane. Whatever it is you are thinking of doing or saying, it is going to make your problem worse.

If this comes to separation, what we want is for that to be a last chance to SAVE your marriage. That means the separation needs to come after leaving a "good taste" in your husband's mouth about the relationship. Show him what he has to gain by adopting this program for you guys: an elimination of angry outbursts on both of your parts, an elimination of spending on your part that he is not enthusiastic about, etc.

I wouldn't talk separation until you've given your husband a chance to examine what is possible here. Separation needs to happen with a clear means of possible reconciliation: eliminate angry outbursts and rebuild the marriage.