This issue seems to come up so often on threads that I figured it was time for it's own topic.

I know I have written my own experience (in exposing to my own children and also having an affair exposed to me as a child) over and over again so I will also include that here on this thread for easier reference for new posters. I encourage others to do so as well!

Brainy, please feel free to link any radio clips you've got handy!!



Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, on telling the children:

here





here


here

Excellent thread Susie. I hope posters will also post their experiences also.

The Harley's discuss telling the children even as young as 4 about the affair

Telling the kids about the affair when and how it should be done.
Radio Clip on Telling the Children

Exposing to my children did NOT damage them at all. It had the opposite effect. It alleviated the anxiety and stress DS (8 at the time) was dealing with because he knew SOMETHING was very wrong...he just did not understand what. I believe he was doing exactly what Dr Harley says children do if they are not told the
truth -----> they blame the marital problems and tension in the home on themselves.

I believe exposing to my children also helped them through the entire separation and divorce process...because they trusted that I would be honest with them about what was going on in their lives.

I can also testify to this from the other side - when I was young, my parents exposed affairs to me from two close family members, one when I was about 9-10 and the other when I was a pre-teen. In both cases, I knew something was very wrong before they told me. It did not damage me in the least. It taught me a lot about honesty and how damaging affairs are.

From the private forum:



Another from the private forum:

I discovered my mother's affair on my own. I am glad I found out! My dad was no longer in the house at that point, so there was nobody to expose to me. But I needed to know the truth. I needed to know the real reason why she wasn't willing to work things out with my dad. And I also needed to learn some valuable lessons about human nature, about my mother, about myself, about church singles' groups (where she found her affair partner(s)), etc.

I also learned my grandmother had been wayward. That exposed a lot. The narrative of her life, with multiple marriages, didn't make sense at all until I was told WHY, until I was told what had really happened. Learned some great lessons there, too. (Would you believe she actually disguised one affair as a Bible study?)

Thanks to having this information I was able to make the decision to break the cycle and not live this way myself. I was also able to understand why my mother was so selfish and did not truly care for her children, and take action accordingly to have a happy adult life. Today I have a wonderful marriage, a wonderful family. I am living the happily ever after and able to keep destructive influences away from my life and away from my children.

Yea, when you speak about "breaking the cycle," Dr Harley sometimes mentions that some families have a "culture of affairs," where the behavior is actually accepted and encouraged....similar how some families have a culture of drinking alcohol.

When I exposed my MIL alcoholism to the children, they were upset but I think it answered a lot of questions in their minds, such as why she's often in the hospital or why the bizarre behavior.

This helps them prepare for adulthood and understand that adultery or use of vices can have terrible consequences in life.

Throughout my years on MB I have often heard from new members the fear of exposing the affair to their kids.

The little ones--because they are afraid they are too young to understand.

The teen & adult children--because they don't their kids to lose respect for the WW parent.

Both assumptions are wrong. The kids(all ages) KNOW something is wrong and are confused. They can feel the tension, hear bits & pieces of discussions, and usually feel responsible,, as though they have done something to cause the discord.

I told my kids (teen & young adult) as soon as I confirmed there was an affair. Of course they were upset & concerned about me (us) but they were also very relieved. For so long they each thought THEY were are cause of all our problems. They blamed themselves. And it was a huge relief for them to know their dad had his own issues going on.

Nearly every day on here, someone wants to know, "Should I tell my kids about the A?" Or, "Do I HAVE to tell my kids about the A? Won't that damage them? Can't I just keep it a big secret? What they don't know can't hurt them, right?"

Dr. Harley makes it crystal clear that kids ages 4 and up should be told about the A in age appropriate language, and avoiding disrespect to the WS or OP. "Daddy has a girlfriend, and that's not ok for a married person," vs. "Your evil DNA donor has been boinking one of the local skanks."

Telling kids during the A occasionally gets resistance, but nothing like when the A has already ended. It's like once it's over, if the kids don't already know, it should be swept under the rug. After all, kids don't really know what's going on, and we don't want to traumatize them, right?

Well, just like any BS, whether they know about the A or not, the wound has already been given. Kids HAVE ALREADY been hurt by adultery, whether they know it or not. I didn't tell my kids about the A, and with hindsight, I wish I had. It would have actually saved them additional pain besides what the adultery itself caused.

I'm not sure if telling the kids just wasn't stressed as much back in '05, or if in the fallout of it all I just missed that part. All I remember for sure is I didn't hold back at the time from a lack of courage - it just never occurred to me they should know. By the time I realized it, we were well into R and it seemed pointless. I just figured if we said anything at all, we'd tell them when they were older. (I've seen other posters here who still say the same thing. "We're in R - it's pointless to tell them.")

Fast-forward a few years, and our DD found out on her own. Except she didn't realize it was long over, she thought it was going on right then. She suffered agonies for several weeks before I learned of it and told her it was already over. Finding out did damage the kids' relationship with their dad for a bit - though really it was already damaged during the A, they just didn't know it yet - but seeing him be kind and loving to me and to them helped them past it. And both of the older ones, who were 5 and 7 at the time the A began, kept saying, "Aha!" for weeks afterwards. That's why Dad was mad at me all the time...that's why he yelled so much...now I finally understand why he never spent time with us then suddenly took us out to pizza and bought us a bunch of stuff...no wonder he was always gone until late at night..." It really helped them to know that there was an outside cause, and none of these oddities were their fault.

Not only will telling your kids help them make sense of their past, and put together the strange bits and pieces that have puzzled and bothered them since that time, but it will also impact their future. They're forming their own beliefs about what marriage means from watching you. It's important that they don't view marriage as disposable, even if you R, but more so if you D. Without knowing everything you BS's endured, or you FWS's, what you put the family through,they may take their own relationships more lightly than they would otherwise.

Best of all, you can start them down an A-proofing road so this doesn't happen to them in their own lives. Having experienced adultery, I would do anything to protect my kids from going through it, as any part of the equation.

There's no question that telling the truth about this will be painful, to you and the kids both. It may also benefit them in surprising ways.

Please feel free to add to this story of kids and exposure. I know quite a few of you have gone through having to tell your kids at different stages of the process, and perhaps having these anecdotes collected in one place will be beneficial to others.
_________________________

Here's a good thread about this.
Exposing to Children

Bravo good post! Unfortunately, very little of MArriage Builders was stressed at all in 2005 because the forum was a tower of babel where personal "wisdom," Love Languages, etc, etc, etc, reigned supreme. Fortunately for some us, we discovered MB on our own and are still here paying it forward!

I did not tell our children. At the time of the A, my DD was only 6 months old (now 3) and my son was 4 (now 7). I do think they should be told at some point but wonder when?

My W found out about her dad's A from when she was 7 years old when we exposed my W's A to her mother. My W's only comment on the matter was that she "just knew" he had done that. Although she doesn't seem to feel any differently about him for it. Maybe because she feels it would be hypocritical?

Anyway, we haven't really discussed it and I don't really want to bring it up because I know she will not want to do it.

What about a lawyers "advice", that you shouldn't say anything to the children because Judges don't take kindly to that. When I countered that it was only sharing the truth without malice, he still advised against it. When I asked, well how should the children's concerns be addressed when they weep because their father is leaving and spending the night away or has been away for several days, he said steer the conversation elsewhere and that's where you would want to consult a counselor on what to say to them.
Something just doesn't sit right with me about his advice. It seems so contrary to maintaining the emotional well-being of the children and it also seems to fall into the archaic notion that what the children don't know won't hurt them. On top of that, it seems to continue the WS's fantasy and cover up of his poor choices in betraying his spouse and family. PS. The A is still ongoing... Thoughts?

Personally, I'd write out an extremely short letter, and read it to the kids. Then put the letter with the documentation, so you can show the court word for word what was said.

That advice, while it may be legally the best in some situations, is not IMO the best for the kids. Kids blame themselves for everything, and you would never want them thinking Daddy was staying away more because they were too bad. Or Daddy was mad more because of something they did.

If further conversations take place, document those, too, in your Notebook of Destiny. You can also print out quotes from Dr. Harley, a clinical psychologist, and explain that you were following his advice to tell.

As long as you're careful in what you say, and document thoroughly, you should be able to have the best of all worlds - the kids armed with the truth, and yourself protected in court.

Also, thanks to Brain for linking the other thread. As many times as this comes up, I don't think it's possible to have too much info on the subject.

Keep in mind that an attorney does not care about your children so he doesn't mind if you poison them with lies if it makes his job easier. His goal is to facilitate an easy, amicable divorce, NOT to look out for your children.

We have even had lazy, uncaring lawyers tell parents they should allow their kids to be dragged into their parent's affair.

HOWEVER, you are the responsible parent for your child and you are obliged to tell your children the truth. Parents need to be reminded that THEY - and they alone - are responsible for the well being of their own children. You will answer for the well being of your child, not some lawyer or some crapwit in the court system.

What I would suggest in such an instance is informing your attorney that as a caring, MORAL, responsible adult, you will not lie to your children. You have their best interest at heart and will tell them the full truth. And as your paid employee, you fully expect him to defend you if it ever becomes an issue. [and I have never seen it become an issue in the 13 yrs I have been here but I have seen MANY attorneys say this]

Mine are

A) Lawyers have no training in child development, family counselling or psychology. So it's a bit like listening to a cashier's advice about surgery.
B) Is it coincidental that a happy, buddy divorce means less work for the lawyer? Surely not.

But most importantly, and you hit on it with the perfect word:
C) It is archaic. Children don't have any thoughts of their own except what we tell them to think do they? Tell them the truth like they have sense and compassion and reason? Don't be ridiculous. Noses back on your slates, now children. Seen and not heard. Let's keep you in the dark like mushrooms and feed you horsechit. We will have no independent thought processes or learning about the world in here.

Nuh huh. Children are stoo-pid. Children don't notice that their betrayed parent is traumatised, barely holding it together. Or that the wayward parent is snappish and mean and absent. They don't get confused or anxious about the fact no one will tell them why.

Children don't notice that the phone is now the centre of the wayward parents universe. They don't have the resourcefulness to sneak a peek and figure it out. They aren't going to be trapped in the horrible dilemma of feeling they should tell the betrayed parent - but scared they might cause a divorce.

It really makes me mad. It's not only patronising but dangerous to leave children unguided like that.

When it comes to taking advice, you should always weigh the advice based on the qualifications of those who give it. When it comes to the emotional well-being of children, do you most trust 1) a lawyer or 2) a clinical psychologist? Sounds like a no-brainer. I'd go with the clinical psychologist. Dr. Harley advises that you tell the children.

My children literally cried with relief when I told them about my XH's affair. They had apparently spent a lot of time discussing why he had become so distant and decided it was because they were not nice enough. Imagine carrying that burden through your entire childhood.

You're very welcome. Susie started such a good thread I wanted to keep them together.

At the end of the day, the buck stops with every parent. No judge, attorney, or courtroom crapwit has to answer to Almighty God for the well being of your children. YOU are responsible.

Telling kids lies about their own life only confuses them greatly and leaves them vulnerable to the lies of the wayward. Because I assure every betrayed spouse of this simple truth: if you don't tell your kids the truth, your WS will tell them lies!!

My gut reaction concurs with all of your inputs. Thank you for that confirmation.

Radio Clip on the Effects of an Affair on Children
Segment #2
Segment #3

Alleah writes she had an affair in the past when her children were too young to understand so they were never told. Now she asks should they be told, and if so when. Is there any benefit to telling the children of the affair?

Radio Clip of Telling the Children when They are Old Enough

Its been two weeks since I learned of my WH's PA and I finally properly exposed to my two children (ages 8 and 5) last night. It made a huge impact on my 8 year old son, whom has been taking this the hardest. WH has been out of the house for a month and a half ("I love you, but I'm no longer in love with you" ordeal until I finally learned the truth), and my son had been internalizing a lot of the blame. He thought his dad left because he was a bad kid or because he didn't want to be in the same house as him anymore.

I was nervous about telling him there was an OW, but as soon as I did, something clicked in him. He DID cry and he is still hurting, but he now understands that this was nothing his sister or him did. There is something wrong with his dad; not them.

You are a good mom giving your kids the truth ...

Thank you. It did take a little bit of convincing from others, though. I was nervous that their dad would be angry at them if they brought up the OW, and I did not want their time with him to be compromised because of it.. but I know I did the right thing overall.

Our son is really going to resent his father for this as he grows up. He's only 8, but he's a very loyal, lovable boy and he always does the right thing. Sad that he's a better man already than his 30 year old father.

I exposed to my kids also and its important...i exposed 3 years ago and recently my ex wife told the kids she divorced me becAuse she wasn't happy and was sad after one of the kids was born! Talk about blaming the kids! But fortunately they already knew the truth!

Jedi is she in the running for some kind of wayward award or something?

Did the kids call her on lying?

A mental health professional as written to challenge Dr. Harley on the idea of exposing affairs to children.

Radio Clip on Exposing to Children
Segment #2

Wendy writes that her husband had an affair after a rocky start we had a child is this something we share with our child in the future?
Rdio Clip

Bump

Like almost everyone, I had reservations about telling my four children - three boys 7, 6 and 5 and a baby girl - about their father's affair. Since the period between D day and me throwing him out/starting Plan B was not that long (around 6 weeks), they were not exposed to too much conflict in the house and there was not a long period before D Day when my husband and I had been arguing or unhappy. All my family, friends and acquaintances were unanimous in their disapproval of the idea of telling the children what was really going on. And my WH had already been very angry preemptively about the idea of me "turning the kids against him". But after reading the advice here, I did it anyway.

I decided the best time to speak to them was after I picked them up from school, immediately after I packed up WH's clothes into suitcases, but before he came to pick them up (to avoid him giving them his own version first). All I said was this: "Kids, come and sit on the sofa because I want to talk to you. I have just packed up Papa's clothes into suitcases because he is going to go and live somewhere else for a while. The reason he is going to live somewhere else is because he has a girlfriend and when you are married you are not allowed to have a girlfriend. We all love him and we want him to break up with his girlfriend and come home. But he can't come home before he has broken up with his girlfriend". I then asked them if they had any questions. The 5 year old boy said "But why didn't you tell Papa he wasn't allowed to have a girlfriend?" (me: "I did sweetie, he knew he wasn't allowed to"), but the older two didn't really have anything to say and they just wanted to turn on the TV. The following day I went to the kids' school and informed the Director that we had separated, that I had told the children that their father had a girlfriend, and I asked them to give me some feedback about how the kids were doing.

Over the next few weeks after WH moved out (with a bit of resistance), we added a prayer to our usual grace at dinner time that we want Papa to break up with his girlfriend and come home.

It has now been two and a half months since my WH moved out and I have seen absolutely ZERO ill effects in the children. They have totally adapted to life without him around and the fact that I told them so clearly immediately as it happened really helped us to develop a feeling of solidarity about the family without him in it.

The children know they can ask me questions whenever they want, their teachers have reported no emotional or behavioural issues at all, and perhaps most comforting for me is that I can explain any moments of sadness to them in the context of information they already know - which takes the anxiety out of my emotions for them. They don't like it if I am sad, but once they know it is about their dad leaving, they react as though it is something they understand. I do quite a good job of keeping my mind off it most of the time though.

The final point which has made me a big advocate for exposure to children is how simple it now is to update them on any developments that happen during the course of Plan B. We had quite a bit of trouble with my WH being aggressive, threatening and violent towards us as he tried to force his way back into the house. But because the kids were so clear in their understanding of why he was not living with us to start with, it helped me explain to them what was happening in a way that reassured them. "Papa wants to come back in the house without breaking up with his girlfriend. But when you are married you are not allowed to have a girlfriend so I have told him he can't do that." I also asked them "What do you feel like when I tell you you can't do something you want to do? Well that is how Papa is feeling now" and that made it easy for them to understand something that might otherwise have been very traumatic.

In conclusion: Exposure to children is a really positive thing for both them and you. Your situation is going to evolve, and there will be additional things you need to explain to them as things move forward. If you haven't told them what the situation is clearly from the start, you are going to make the job more and more difficult and confusing as things get more difficult and confusing for you.

chalkncheese, thanks for this wonderfully articulate review of your experience with exposure. Over the years, we have found it to be extremely beneficial to tell the kids because it prepares them for the fallout of the affair. When kids are not told, they end up confused and very often are told lies and spin by the wayward spouse. When they know the truth, the betrayed spouse is able to give them much needed moral guidance.

My own father was a serial cheater and my mother remained silent. My father introduced me to one of his OW when I was 4 yrs old and it was very confusing to me. What seemed wrong to me obviously was not wrong to the adults in my life. I learned to doubt my instincts about right and wrong because they were not validated by my parents.

Good for you for telling them the truth and preparing them for this ordeal.

bump

Hi chalkncheese,

It's been more then 12 months since you have told your kids, I'm curious if everything is still well with them, especially the 6 year old (5 year old when you told him).

Anyone else who has exposed to children (under 5 year old) a few years ago, I would love an update on how it is all going with the kids.

BBH, Chalkandcheese can answer for herself, but I would suggest that her kids were very impacted by the ending of her marriage. It is not exposure that hurts kids, but affairs, divorce and lies. Everyone involved is impacted to some degree.

I can tell you what not exposing to children looks like from the child's standpoint because I lived it. As a 4 yr old I knew something was very wrong and since my mother would not tell me the truth, I learned early on to doubt my instincts about right and wrong. My father was having an affair and he actually introduced me to his OW. Since no one was telling me the truth, he was free to feed me lies. This seemed wrong to me but since no adult validated my instincts I learned that my instincts were wrong. Kids sense the tension in the home and often conclude they are the source of the problem. Lies and illusions don't make children happy or secure, they make them feel confused. It also teaches them that dishonesty is acceptable under certain circumstances when they eventually find out the truth.

It is very important for every family member to know about the affair so they can help hold your wife accountable. She won't be so free to carry on her affair if everyone around her is watching.

I found out as a 14 year old and told my dad, and later my wayward mother's mother.

I wouldn't change a thing.

Edited: Well, other than the fact she had an affair, of course.

Thanks Markos & Melody,

I have a 5 and 3 year old. While it scares me to do so I am pretty certain I can talk it though with my 5 year old in terms she will understand, but I don't know what to say to her about the 3 year old, eg. I don't want to say that we can't tell him because thats not being honest. Do I just say he is too young to understand yet but we will tell him when he is 4 or something along those lines?

I have heard Dr Harley say to keep it to age 4 and above, depending on the 4 yr olds maturity level.

I found this paragraph:

In this radio clip Dr. Harley talks about telling a 4yo.