Hello All-I�m fairly new here and need some advice.
A little over a year ago was D-day. My H had an EA. I can give the whole story if needed, but not sure all of the specific details are important at this point.

After reading other stories here, I consider my situation to be so much easier than what many others have endured. I am certain that it was not a PA, but an EA that was on the brink of becoming physical. The fog was starting to settle in, but wasn�t so thick yet that I lost him.

When I found out about it, all of the details were uncovered within a few days and within 48 hours or so my H was very remorseful. We didn�t know about MB or SAA at that point, but what we did was not far off. No Contact was established�while we/I didn�t do full exposure (hadn�t heard of it yet), it was exposed to several key people in our lives and OW�s life. OW had other A�s�what happened with my H was the least of her family�s problems. OW does not live or work near either of us, so NC has been maintainable.

While my situation was so much less dramatic than many of them here, it was still a devastating betrayal. It almost ended our marriage. I am happy and proud to say though that the marriage that is emerging is a stronger, better relationship than I ever thought possible. I am totally in love with my H. I adore him. He is my very best friend.

When I found out about the EA, I started going through phone logs, emails, fb, etc� I uncovered some OS friendships that I found to be inappropriate. At first H insisted that he should be able to have OS friendships, but has since come around and agrees that they are not a good idea and has agreed not to have them.

Ever since the EA broke, I have felt incredibly vulnerable and feel like I�m always waiting for the other shoe to drop�.waiting to be hurt again. H has apologized repeatedly, agreed to EP, and been very patient with me.

But I still can�t relax. I�ve done so much snooping and digging in the past year and uncovered no additional concerns. All of his time is accounted for. I have uncovered no suspicious phone calls, other phones, other social media accounts, etc� GPS on his phone shows only work and errands. My H is kind of disorganized and forgetful. I�m pretty sure that he wouldn�t be able to carry on any inappropriate behavior for very long without slipping up and leaving behind a clue that I would find.

So why can�t I relax? I feel like the anxiety has become almost a habit with me. H is very patient (last week I broke into tears over something so stupid and minor and he took me by the hand and led me to the couch and held me in his arms while I cried and apologized again and again for causing me so much anxiety). But even though he understands why I feel like I do, it doesn�t make it any easier when evenings are ruined because I�m a bundle of nerves and can�t relax.

I feel that I�ve come to truly understand what lead to the EA and have come to peace with it, more or less. What I still stress about is that even before the EA, he wasn�t always honest with me. He was a get out of trouble liar with a bit of lying to look good thrown in too. Very early in our marriage he lost his job and didn�t tell me�pretended to be working for months when he wasn�t. Hid the financial disaster that resulted from me. That incident was very painful for me and we never really dealt with it�I just decided he couldn�t be trusted and distanced myself from him in a number of ways. And then over the years he reinforced my thoughts that he couldn�t be trusted by lying about a number of things�most of them very minor (ie saying bills were paid when they weren�t, saying he�d gone to a class even though he was home playing video games, stuff like that�).

We�ve talked about that previous dishonesty, and I�ve told him that I guess I never really trusted him at all, so we aren�t rebuilding trust, we�re building it. He didn�t like to hear that, but understood and really seems to be taking the need to change very seriously. I have not caught him in a lie since the EA and believe me, I am constantly on the lookout for it.
It should also be noted that he has proven he is a person that can make meaningful, lasting changes to himself�some people have a hard time changing�I wouldn�t say it�s been easy for him, but over the years he�s really made positive changes in his life and stuck by them (lost 150 pounds a few years ago, trained and competed in some endurance sporting events, became a vegetarian, etc�)�so it should be believable to me that the changes in our marriage and in him are real.

I feel like all of my doubts and anxiety may sabotage a good thing�I think it makes him feel beaten down and like nothing he is doing is good enough. That in trying to protect myself from another A, I may set the stage for another by making him feel like nothing he does is good enough for me.

I heard one of Dr. Harley�s radio shows the other day and he advised a woman in recovery to stop talking about the affair because it will continue to keep it active in her mind. So I have committed to not speaking about it for the next month�we�ll see if that helps.

The self-protective part of me still checks phone records, email, etc� more than I would like to admit. Since I have uncovered nothing concerning in the past year, would it be wise to take a break from that? Sometimes I�ve noticed that I am feeling fine and without anxiety and then I do some snooping and all of that anxiety comes right back at me. But the thought of giving up the snooping makes me feel like I�m throwing away my safety net.

Thoughts?

Oh, btw, we�ve been married almost 20 years. We were each other�s first love. No children other than pets.

Sorry for the long book of a post.

What were the conditions of the affair? Traveling job? Online gaming? FB? Have you made sure to eliminate every single condition of the affair?

Do you and your H have a plan in place to eliminate lies? Dr. Harley talks about that in his book Love Busters.

Do you have complete transparency in your lives? Passwords to all financial accounts?

Are you spending a minimum of 15 hours a week together meeting the four most important emotional needs?

Are there some specific triggers that could be eliminated from your life?

You will definitely need to stop talking about the affair. This takes a great deal of effort and discipline, especially in the first couple of years following D-Day. When you find yourself thinking about it, try to focus your thoughts on something else.

I'll be back later. Have to run.

I'm very sorry for the pain you have suffered. EAs are just as damaging to marriages as PAs.

Thank you for your reply and kind words.


Long story short(er), my H and I were friends with a couple for 10+ years. OW was the WW in that couple. We really were friends as couples...at first. We'd do dinner, movies, etc... with them. I always had a nagging feeling that things were a little too chummy with OW and H though. She was a Stay at Home Mom and my H worked nights and was home during the day. So when plans needed to be made, it was generally those two making calls or texts to make plans. Over the years the EN's of both marriages were not being met and OW started confiding in my H about her marriage problems. She then confessed to my H that she was having an affair with another man. After months of these types of calls and texts, they confessed to each other that they'd always been attracted to each other and started sending sexually explicit texts to each other and created a Skype account so I wouldn't see their activity on our phone bill. The Skype account only lasted about 4 days before I had done enough snooping to confront him.


As much as I can be sure, there has been no contact. I'm fairly comfortable that there has been no contact and that the EA ended a year ago and has not resumed.


I think so. I do admit that my reactions to lies in the past have probably been part of the problem too and am working on that. And he has definitely been working on being honest, even about trivial little things. He has always had a terrible memory though and is very forgetful. I struggle sometimes when he says he can't remember things...I never know if he's lying or truly can't remember. It probably doesn't help that I have an usually good memory and forget almost nothing.

Yes. One thing we have implemented in recent weeks is that every Sunday we sit down and review all financial information together...review all charges on the credit card, banking transactions, balance the checkbook, etc...

Yes. We don't have children and have always been each other's favorite companion for recreational activities, so this has been easier for us than some couples. I do struggle with Admiration though..it's an important need of his and one that the OW filled. I've never been good at giving compliments...they come off sounding fake even when I really mean them. And he's never been good at receiving compliments...whenever anyone tells him something good about himself, he puts himself down. Other than that, I think the EN's are in a good spot.

We both are big music fans and spend a lot of time listening to music, seeing it live and discussing it. There is an endless supply of songs that remind me of the EA...I try to avoid them, but this is a subject that is very popular in music and removing music from our lives would affect our EN's, so I try my best to avoid songs that trigger. I also feel sad when I see his running pants. OW sent him a text saying how hot she was getting thinking of him running. And honestly, this site is a trigger...while I find a lot of helpful information here and am so thankful for MB, seeing all of this talk about A's is a bit of a trigger.

I sure am trying.

Did you expose to OW's BH?

Welcome to MB and sorry for your pain.

Does your H still work the night shift? Do you work the same shifts now?

Does he still have access to a computer that can be used for contact with OW, or other women? Did he use the computer at home? Can you slip on a keylogger without him knowing? The more you know about what he's doing, the more you will learn to trust him again.

How close does the OW live to you? You said "not close," but is it within a few hours?

Admiration is one of the top five needs for most men,and it's most easily met by a woman when he is doing a good job meeting his wife's needs. So to the extent that he is meeting your needs, you will be able to admire him. Admiration is a habit that can be created with practice. Is your H doing a great job of learning to meet your ENs?

Can he get rid of the running pants? We've had people on this forum throw away everything from clothes to couches to get rid of triggers. Many people have moved to get away from triggers and get a fresh start in a new place.

As long as all the important questions are answered regarding the affair, it really is best to stop talking about it. It brings the pain of the past into the present and makes conversation miserable.

I had to stop talking about it in the same way I stopped a bad habit in the past; I'd tell myself I could do it for one day. Just one day. Then I'd go another day. I started a conversation worksheet (free off this website) to track it. I asked my H to immediately stop me if I started. He was to say, respectfully and gently, "Let's follow the plan, honey. Let's not talk about that." That helped me a lot. I had to learn to focus on other things if I started thinking about it.

Thank you, BrainHurts.

The A wasn't immediately exposed to the OW's BH because at the time I didn't understand the importance of that. I didn't discover MB until 10 months or so after d-day. OW and her BH have 5 children and she had multiple A's...I stupidly thought it best not to add more drama to BH's life. Somehow he found out about it on his own though and called and confronted my H a few months ago. I did hear that conversation and was somewhat comforted by the fact that the details her BH dug up confirmed my findings...he didn't uncover any details that I was unaware of.

My H no longer works nights. We are on the same shift now and fall asleep and wake up cuddling.



Most of the EA took place on his phone, which I have access to. Some of it was on his work computer. The two times I was at his workplace after the A, I did take a look at his computer and found nothing that concerned me. It should be noted that he manages a store that sells used electronics, including computers and phones, so it is almost impossible for me to rule out that another device could be used. H's attitude and behavior changed drastically when the EA was going on though....I KNEW something was up just by how he was acting. While he has been dishonest during our relationship, he isn't a particularly good liar...he's sloppy and acts differently when he's lying. I'm fairly comfortable that there isn't an active A going on right now.

About 40 minutes away. I have GPS tracking enabled on his phone and he does not know that. He has never traveled to that area. It's possible he did but left his phone behind, but in the entire past year there hasn't been any amount of time that couldn't be accounted for. I call him at work regularly and have made surprise visits too.


Honesty is my top need, hands down. In my mind, if there is any dishonesty, it taints everything else. He has done a wonderful job with the other EN's...the level of affection and SF in our marriage has completely turned around since this happened. We have always been each other's favorite recreational companion and other than a few rounds of golf with a buddy in the summer, almost all of our recreational moments are spent together. We have a great time together and I adore his company. But my H is a fun guy...he likes to have fun. He doesn't like conflict. He will lie to avoid it. I have found no evidence of an affair, but have uncovered little lies (I shipped the package on Monday when it really didn't go out until Wednesday...that kind of thing). It's a huge love buster for me. If I can't trust him, I do not feel safe. I struggle with that though...human beings lie. I try not to, since I value honestly so much, but I do too sometimes. But every time he lies about a little thing, I worry that he's still capable of lying about big things too.


Not sure what to do about the running pants. We did get rid of some other triggers, we avoid movies with stories about infidelity, etc... But it wasn't a particular pair of running pants she was talking about. He had texted her that he was going for a run and she texted back about how hot she was getting thinking about him in the pants. He has several pairs and every time I see them I remember that text. To ask to have no running pants in the house would mean asking him to give up running. I'll have to think about that one...


I truly believe the important questions have been answered. When the OW's BH called and confronted my H, it was comforting that he'd uncovered the same details. I like your idea of asking H to gently remind me not to talk about it anymore. I think he'll like that too...it gives him one more thing he can do to proactively help me get through this.

What do you think though about the continued monitoring and snooping? On one hand I feel like it's my safety net. On the other, every time I go to check out the GPS or phone logs, I feel a lot of anxiety and have flashbacks about the A. And sometimes I think it is a pointless exercise...other than the GPS, he knows I have access to emails, fb, phone records...if he was serious about keeping something from me, he would use other accounts, devices, etc... (I have looked repeatedly for other phones and never found one).

I'm just so tired of feeling like this. The anxiety is exhausting. I just want to feel safe and enjoy the new relationship that is emerging.

Thanks for listening.

Dr. Harley suggests to BS that they snoop until they're bored with snooping. As you snoop and continue to not find anything, you will eventually grow to trust him more and will find it less necessary.


It takes a couple of years minimum for trust to be restored to a marriage after an affair. You also have his basic dishonesty to deal with. Is he working with you on a consistent basis to become more honest and to eliminate dishonesty?

He will need to completely eliminate all lies. It may be true that human beings tend to lie for a variety of reasons, but it's not a good habit to have and certainly not within a marital relationship. Spouses need to be completely honest with each other.

We each need to have the freedom to be honest AND we need the accountability. Having the freedom to be honest means we need to be very careful of our reactions to the honesty. If honesty is punished with anger or disrespect, then it's going to be harder to be honest. So I would be very careful with your reactions to his honesty.

Also, forty minutes away from the OW is terribly close. It would be so easy for her to come into your area. Just having to drive anywhere near there is going to be a trigger for both of you.

Dr. Harley often recommends moving when the OW is that close. It may be a difficult choice, but you and your H should at least consider moving.

I hear what you are saying about the proximity of OW. There are a number of things in our lives that make moving complicated now (elderly parents, part ownership in a local business, difficult local market to sell our house in, etc...). I understand how a fresh start farther away would be helpful and will keep that open as a possibility. But it isn't something that can be done immediately.

And since it was an EA that was conducted on computers and phones, even moving across the country wouldn't prevent that kind of activity.

Luckily we do not have to go to that area often and the few times we do, we do so together (it isn't an area either of us has to travel to for work and the GPS on his phone confirms he hasn't been there in the last year, other than with me). But yes, the times we go there are a trigger.

I believe he is working on the honesty issues. I'm never sure if he's gotten more honest though or if there just hasn't been much to lie about lately.

Admittedly, prior to all of this, I did some "protective" lying myself. I've lied very few times to get out of trouble or to look good, but lying to protect his feelings and/or avoid conflict was something I did earlier in our marriage. Early on, right after d-day, I did realize the harm that caused and have worked hard to be completely honest, even when it's hard to do so.

I have definitely reacted badly to his honesty in the past and have really worked on making changes in myself to not do that. There were times that he was honest with me and I reacted with disrespect and anger. I will continue to work on that.

Any advice for managing the anxiety in the meantime? I don't think anti-depressants are the answer...I'm not feeling depressed. But I get these waves of anxiety that are so hard to deal with. They are hard to ignore and have affected my work performance, without a doubt. Sometimes I feel like my brain has gotten so used to worrying and being anxious, that it doesn't know how to stop anymore.

I think the best way to manage your anxiety would be to address logically what it is that you are anxious about at that moment. If there is a specific concern, look at it clearly and logically, and see if you can find a way to eliminate the reason for that particular concern that is causing anxiety.

I had an actual anxiety problem for a while and had to go on meds, a very small but effective dose, until the conditions that caused the anxiety were cleared up. It took a week or so for the meds to kick in, but they worked very well. My brain was able to calm down from its constant "high alert" status. So if the anxiety is really a problem, you might consider medication for a time. They don't make you feel strange or anything. They just balance out the brain chemicals and make the connections work better. I'm no longer on them and have no more anxiety. All the conditions that used to cause me to be anxious are gone.

Did you have your WH take a poly to prove to you that he is being honest about the affair? There is a lot of opportunity here and your WH has shown that he is capable of deceiving you. You also have a dangerous OW who is known to sleep around and does not respect marriage.

Maybe your instincts are telling you that your WH is still being dishonest with you about his SSL. That is something that will eat away at you for eternity.

A poly is an easy way for your WH to prove himself and erase any doubt so that you can move forward in your reconciliation.

The waves of anxiety could be occurring, because, in reality, a few of the conditions of the affair still exist:

1.) Although your H has a GPS on his vehicle that he doesn't know about, you really have no idea if/when the OW ever decides to show up in your area. They could meet at any time. Forty minutes drive is hardly anything. Although a move is never easy, many who have done so have found that they feel much safer farther away from the other person. In spite of the family and other concerns, a move would be a something to seriously consider.

2.) Your H still works in a place where it's impossible to monitor the computers and phones. He should not be working in a place with unmonitored access to computers/smart phones/etc. He can't block communication from the OW, who knows where he works and can contact him at any time.

3.) You are relying on indications from your H's behavior to tell you whether or not he is in affair. And he's already proven to you that he can lie to your face. See, the problem is that you feel fairly comfortable that he is not conducting the affair, but you need to know for sure.

If you were to be able to tell FOR SURE that your H can NOT conduct an affair, you would have a lot less anxiety.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the other person ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Don't get hung up on the labels. I wasn't depressed, either. There are effective anti-anxiety medications that can help immensely. It is the job of a psychiatrist to make the determination as to what is needed. What you need to do is seek the professional services of a good psychiatrist. That will get you the right help.

This sounds like BH discovered the affair almost a year after your own D-Day. Why did the BH discover it so much later? It makes me wonder if the BH found recent contact that made him suspicious and start looking. Have you personally spoken to the BH?

You need to have the truth and the whole story. That is essential in holding your WH accountable and recovering your marriage.

Hi Pokerface-

I knew I was being long winded already, so I tried to summarize the A and reading over how I explained it, I see that a little more information, especially timelines, would be helpful. I'm sorry for the length of this, but more details might clear some things up.

The phone calls and texts that had spilled over into an inappropriate relationship lasted for a few months (the point in time where she was talking about her problems and other A's to my H). At that time he thought he was just being a good friend and was actually telling me what was being said. I had a gnawing feeling in the pit of my stomach that this was wrong, but couldn't logically explain why it wasn't ok for a man and woman to be friends and help each other out with problems (I have since seen the light and can write an essay on why this isn't ok!). Because the relationship made me feel icky, I was monitoring his emails and texts and because he thought it was ok, he wasn't deleting them. On day 11 before d-day, I read some texts that seemed a little flirty, but not bad enough that I thought I could throw a fit. Later that day they had a 60 minute phone conversation. Later, when the details came out, I learned that was the day they confessed to being attracted to each other. 10 days later I checked his phone again and saw that he had deleted all of her texts, but not ones from anyone else. Same with the email. I checked phone records and saw a few calls between them and dozens of texts each day. I confronted him and at that point he didn't confess to anything explicit being said between them, but said he'd been feeling lonely and depressed and needed someone to talk to because things weren't very good between he and I at the time. I asked him if he'd heard the term emotional affair. He hadn't. I googled it, he read what it was and started crying. Said he was very sorry and immediately called her up in front of me and said what had been happening wasn't fair to me or her H and that they couldn't communicate anymore. She said she agreed that it wasn't appropriate, but they should "talk more about it later". He said they wouldn't be talking later and hung up. He cried several times that afternoon.

The next day I went into PI mode. I was afraid that a SIMM card reader might not give me all of the information I needed since the texts had been deleted and may or may not be there. I called the phone company and talked to someone about obtaining transcripts of the text messages. I had to submit some paperwork to them and wait for approval on that. The paperwork that I submitted was not legal...so I won't explain what I did...I don't want anyone else to do it and get into trouble legally. It involved using a friend of mine that is a notary...otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do it. It wasn't my proudest moment, but it worked. I told him that I'd ordered the transcripts and should have them within a day. And that if there was anything I was going to read in those texts that he hadn't told me, it would be wise for him to tell me himself before I read them. He had a complete meltdown. All of the details came out. When I got the text transcripts (I was lucky that only 10 days had gone by since he'd started deleting texts....they only keep the transcripts for 10-30 days), what he told me tied out exactly to the content in the texts.

He volunteered the information about the Skype account without me asking or knowing about it. The last couple of days of texts contained very little, which I thought was odd. H told me that she had suggested setting up a Skype account. He gave me the login and password and I monitored it from there on out. We were able to get the Skype chat history off of his work computer, which he helped me do voluntarily. The only thing we couldn't get was the Skype history off of his phone...there was maybe a day's worth of chatting on there that I couldn't see.

When all of the details came out, I texted OW (bad idea) and told her I was aware of what had happened. She replied back "I don't know what H has told you, but nothing happened between us". I replied back "I read the texts". She sent a text apologizing and attempting to explain. I told her I wasn't interested in explanations and I just wanted her to know that I knew what had happened and she should not contact me or H again. She then texted H and said "I feel like JenDee is blaming me for this". He simply replied "I won't be talking to you again ever". I replied "I am trying to save my marriage. If you care at all, leave us alone". A few weeks later when I was checking the Skype account, I accidentally contacted her (I wasn't used to using Skype). She saw that H's login was online and trying to connect to her and said "I am not talking to you anymore". I simply blocked her. Never heard from her again.

So, no, I didn't ask for a poly. Up until the last 10 days of the EA, he thought he hadn't done anything wrong, so he wasn't hiding anything, at least as far as I could ever tell. I could tell from the texts and Skype messages that they hadn't met up in person yet an that nothing physical had happened yet. So I do feel that I understand what happened and I don't have unanswered questions.

My H hasn't worked nights in more than five years...that was early on in the friendship with OW and her H. At that time my husband was extremely overweight and in the texts with he and OW, she said she would have never flirted with him when he was "fat and gross". So I believe that nothing was really happening back in those days, other than an OS friendship that was a terrible idea.

I really don't think there is a SSL. We leave for work at the same time and arrive home at the same time. Work out together, make dinner and are together all night. While OW could come see him at work, the GPS never shows him leaving work for more than a few minutes and where he goes are errands I know he needs to run (the bank, post office, etc...). There has never been more than 15 minutes unaccounted for. While I can't rule out that he contacts her or other women at work, I do know that he is incredibly busy at work and does not have much privacy. His boss is also a fomer BH (ex wife of 30 years carried on a long term affair and children he thought were his were not). H confided in him about the EA. His boss told him if he ever saw him doing anything inappropriate with another woman, that he would contact me.

So...I my instincts and logic tell me there is no SSL right now. But I constantly feel like I am on red alert anyway. I can't turn off the anxiety.

Thanks for listening.

I understand what you are saying.

I can tell from the GPS that he is at work 90% of his day. When he isn't, the places he's gone are ones that make sense (bank, post office, shipping company, etc...). Trips out of the work place have lasted no more than 15 minutes or so. He has not been out of my sight for any unexplained amounts of time. The only way OW could possibly be seeing him in person is if she went to his workplace. And he has no privacy there (it is a store with other employees). And like I just told Pokerface, his boss was a victim of infidelity and has said he would contact me if he saw something inappropriate. I just can't see how OW could be seeing him in person.

I agree that access to other computers and phones could be trouble. But even if he switched jobs, he could obtain a secret second phone if he really wanted to. I have to think about that one...we're part owners of the store he works at.

I will also consider what you said about the move.

Although truth be told, I need to know that he's honest and never lying to me again. Like I said in a previous post, I haven't caught a lie recently, but maybe there is just nothing to lie about. Before uprooting our entire lives and moving, I'd need to understand that the honesty issues are resolved...otherwise I'd be afraid we'd just be moving our problems somewhere else and they'd start up again with a new cast of characters.

Thanks.