Is this the same BW from the A in February? Or a new one?

No. You are allowing fear to drive your agenda. Your personal "fears" do not supercede this woman's right and need to know. Please expose the affair to his wife and expose to his commanding officer as per the instructions on my exposure thread.

I think you are stronger than you think. I think you are able to say 'Hey everybody here is the truth, however remember that I am in charge, please'.

Will it be embarassing and a bit painful and dramatic? Yes. Is it necessary. Holy moly, yes.

How many affairs and pointless shortcuts in Plan Pius do you need to discover before getting on-plan?

Listened to Dr. Harley's advice on his radio show a few days ago. He doesn't leave much room for hope. It was pretty depressing.

I am so sorry. But wouldn't you rather hear the truth than false hope?

You disappeared and didn't want to expose to the last OM's W either. Sigh.

False hope might be better, LOL! Basically Dr. Harley says I should file for divorce, except that would be pretty catastrophic. For one I still love my wife very much so emotionally that would be very hard, if not impossible. I'm very attached to her - even to a fault, I think. I'm incapable of dosing out any "tough love", it seems. We also have five kids and I would be heartbroken to not be able to see them everyday. However given the laws of this state, since she stays with them the most, being a stay at home mom, she would probably get primary custody. Also financially things would be stretched even more than they already are. I would lose probably half my 401k and have to pay significant alimony and child support. It would also be very painful for the extended family. Further, as a Catholic, I would have to hope I could get an annulment if I ever wanted to marry again. Annulments are based on issues at the time of the marriage, not subsequent issues, so it is far from guaranteed. Also annulments can take up to 3 years to come though.

And yet, of course, staying in a marriage fraught with adultery is very painful and might even be a risk for early death, so says Dr. Harley. So basically there aren't a lot of great options.

BTW I did try to get in touch with POSOM#2's W. I sent her a facebook message and an email. She has yet to respond to either one.

Life is grand, isn't it?

Pius,

Just plain wow! You seem to be fraught with anxiety and indecision, and maybe lack of Hope. A couple of questions first: 1) Have you consulted with the pastor or an associate pastor in your church on your situation, and 2) why are you focusing on the possibility of an annulment rather than on trying to save your M with exposure and all the tools available.

In regard to the first question, a priest experienced in marriage counseling could help you dovetail the Church's view of an affair and how to respond as a husband with Dr. Harley's beliefs and concepts, and the two are not far apart as both are base on Christian principles. In regard to my second question, an annulment in the Catholic Church is Only granted upon discovery of one spouse misrepresenting himself/herself to the other at TIME of the marriage. I am not a priest or a member of the Church clergy, but based on my seminary experience many years ago and fairly close contact with the clergy in my parish, I believe that still holds. And, that is another reason for consulting with your priest!

Bottom line is, both the Church and MB advocate for you fighting for your marriage

Tom

Tom,
Good questions. Firstly I am actually going to meet with a deacon in my parish on the 15th. I've been in discussions with him before. Secondly, as to the indecision and lack of hope, I wrote Dr. Harley an email on my situation and he explicitly said there was little hope. He did NOT recommend that I continue to save the marriage. He recommended that I file for divorce. Given that, it is hard to realistically have much hope.

What I am going to do, however, is continue to fight for my marriage anyway. I will continue to pray every night with my wife and to visit the church one extra time a week to pray. I will continue to ask for the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary. I will clamp down even further on my extraordinary precautions. As of the last DDay, a loophole was discovered and I think I have closed it. I've also done an exposure this time, albeit limited. I've told my WW's two closest friends, my boss and friend at work, and our children about the incident. I've also emailed the POSOM's BW. I know you guys will disagree with this part, but I have told her matter of factly in a non threatening way that the next time this occurs I will absolutely tell the whole world about it and I will attach copies of the text messages and send them to everyone as well. Granted I probably should've done this now, but WW destroyed the evidence. I also simply wasn't emotionally prepared this time. I was too shocked by the discovery so I didn't even read all the messages. Instead I confronted her immediately. Next time though I'll be ready with an action plan already in place.

My WW also at least expressed some remorse, so I got her to agree to more restrictions on electronics, as well as doing a vow renewal in front of the kids and a few other things. She has agreed to spend more time connecting with me. She has said that I have been more than fair and compassionate with dealing with the situation. I realize that not all of these things are MB principles, but given Dr. Harley's statement, pretty much anything I do will be an uphill battle with limited odds of success. At this point I'm in uncharted territory. After DDay #1, I did do a complete exposure and we moved, yet WW simply found a new POSOM online.

At some point, when I feel like I can no longer fight and when my heart tells me it's time, I may have to seriously consider the divorce option But I'm not quite to that point yet. For now I'm still going to carry my cross and keep my family together for our children, even though my heart is shattered. I'm going to pray for a miracle.

She knows you don't mean it, though. We know it too, since you have made this idle threat before. Instead of making idle threats so you can pretend like you "might" take action at some future point, why not just admit and accept that you are in an open marriage with a swinger?


It's not the cross you are carrying when you enable a sinful woman, but satan's banner. The Bible tells us not to associate with the works of darkness and that is all you are doing here. You are enabling a woman who sits on the internet all day trolling for sex. That is her way of life and that is what you are enabling. So lets not pretend like that it is somehow "Christian" to enable a fallen woman to have serial affairs.

I am sorry you have decided to be an enabler, but please lets not pretend enabling is a "Christian" act. It is not.

She knows you will do nothing to stop her. And I know you know it too. Nothing is going to change because she has no reason and no cause to change. You hope and pray that she will magically change, but God will not force her to change against her will. That is not how He works.

She will do what she wants, when she wants. And you can't stop her.

I only hope to God you don't have sex with her since she is picking up losers on the internet to have sex. You have been tested for STDs, right?

Melody, I just disagree with your assessment. For one thing it is not an "open" marriage since at least I'm being faithful. And for another, I never before told her I'd do a complete exposure. That was a huge mistake I made after DDay #2. I didn't even get the POSOM's last name. I didn't get the tactics. I just said "This can't happen again" and attached no consequences. Because the mode of the affair was so different from affair #1, I didn't know how to handle it.

This time I've attached specific consequences both for her and myself, which I have put in writing. Also I'm taking whatever precautions I can possibly take. As I said, I know there are a few things I've done that are not strictly "by the book", but it is simply not fair nor accurate to say that I'm not doing anything about it either. OK, so it is "plan Pius" that I put in place, that is similar but not identical to MB. But, as pointed out, even if I follow MB to a tee, at this point the odds of success are long there too. Plan MB is to file for divorce - that is right from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I'll admit it though - I wasn't prepared for another DDay so I did make mistakes at a critical juncture. All I can do now is keep correcting.

It is an open marriage because your wife is free to have sex with men she finds on the internet; she has no reason to stop. She knows you will not stop her.

There are no consequences and she knows there never will be. You cannot have "success" if there is no plan and there is no plan here. Hope is not a plan.

This CAN and will happen again. You won't do anything about it.

Dr Harley is the most optimistic person I know. He is a clinical psychologist with 40 years experience. His assessment is that this is hopeless. And I believe you know that. You don't want to believe it, and that is understandable. Your denial has been very deep.

The reason this won't work with your wife is because she is not your typical cheater, as Dr Harley pointed out. Most cheaters sort of fall into an affair. Your wife is different because she is out trolling for action.

It doesn't just happen to her. This is her way of life. That is why Plan MB or Plan Pius will never work.

Enabling never works.

You have never DONE a complete exposure so she knows this is an idle threat. It is meaningless. And she knows it.

Melody,
Ok, so let's run with that. It's hopeless. So presumably you also think I should file right now? As I wrote earlier, the negative consequences to that would be enormous. So even if I do that, the outlook for my life is not much better than going forward with plan Pius. As of now, it seems even worse. Basically the outlook for plan D is losing a woman I love permanently, seeing my kids maybe 2 weekends out of three, selling our new house probably at a loss and experiencing financial hardship, placing turmoil on the entire extended family, and possibly having to choose between my faith versus living the rest of my life single. Are you saying to just swallow that and deal with it?

My point is this: there is no good plan at this point. There is only the lesser of two evils. What that is, is something only I can decide. Yes, I may lose my nerve. Yes, there will probably be a DDay #4. Life is a few islands of happiness in an ocean of misery.

I could also resort to drugs, alcohol, suicide, or homicide, but those aren't great alternatives either :-)

I disagree. The outlook is very bright if you can get out of this horrible, abusive marriage that will put you in an early grave. You have a CHANCE at happiness. It frees you up to find a woman who will love you and be faithful to you. You may also get primary custody of your children just as many others here have.

We have many men on this forum over the years who have divorced their abusive wives who are extremely happy and healthy today.

What if you were in love with a woman who actually loved you and who wasn't picking up guys on the internet for sex?

These types of posts remind me very much of abused women who are addicted to their wife beaters. Oddly, their attitude changes dramatically once they are away from them and clear thinking comes back.

And yes, we both know there will be a D-day #4. And a #5, and a #6. Because your wife is trolling for sex on the internet. That is her favorite pastime. She has no cause to change.