My first marriage I married because she/we got pregnant and I thought it would be the correct thing to do.. I didn't love her but that was not the question... so we got married.. that lasted 5 years.. she remarried and her and I get along very well.. not best bodies but are nice to each other.. My second wife 10 years after my 1st. divorce .. we lived together and again she got pregnant (didn't learn) on a vacation trip to Vegas with our son (2 years old at the time ) we just decided to marry..so we did.. She is a artist and really had very little time for our children (we have 2 boy & girl now 11 & 14 years old) and me... she was always traveling to NYC and when she was home she would spend more time on her art or with the art community than with us... I also was not in-love with her ever.. but I did like her...anyway I had enough of her putting us 2nd in her life so I divorced.. The children are with me 60 to 70% of the time now...
As for Chris, I married her because I absolutely loved her..
We also had money troubles.. lack of money (not an excuse)but that put a lot of pressure on me... I could not provide her and our children all I wanted.. and one time I had very little money in my pocket and Chris and one of her boys (we were coming back from a football camp)wanted to stop at a restaurant to get something to eat... I didn't have the money for all of us to eat (I didn't tell them that) so I said well lets stop a McDonald .. we got off the exit and we could not find it after 10 04 15 min of driving... Then Chris suggested that we stop at this restaurant I lost my cool and told them that it was because of not being able to find Mcdonalds but that was a lie I lost my temper because I was ashamed I didn't have the money to take them to didn't... (several weeks later Chris told me that she had brought money for dinner) so I lost my temp and scared her for nothing.. (beside the shame)
I'm not this angry abusive guy ... ( I may be abusive ) but I don't yell to control her or anybody.. I yell because I grew up in a house were dad yelled.. very little self control.. I believe it to be more childish behavior than abuse.. but I do understand that yelling at anybody and getting in their face is abuse.. because they are scared by me... The vengeful mean side that I displayed to Chris in my Txt. is new in our relationship.. I never did that before... I have been vengeful in the past to other people...so I know that I have that in me.. it's just another arm of my anger..
I understand that I have done many wrong, threating and mean things in a short amount of time to Chris... I wish I could deny it but I can't .. I want to stop doing all these hurtful things to her and I want to rescue my marriage.. I think I will learn way to stop doing what I'm doing.... but I don't think I will ever rescue my marriage I don't think Chris will ever allow herself to give me another chance..

Thank you for replying. I think you should edit your post and take out your wife's real name.

Why has she been married 3 times? What happened to her first two marriages?

Has their been infidelity in any of your or her previous marriages?

You say that my wife has stopped loving me ... That is not true she told me yesterday that she loved me very much but that she could not allow me to treat her the way I have...

So I believe her when she says she loves me.. and because she loves me I believe I can save this marriage.. (I don't know if I can I like to think that I will be able)

I understand the yelling and angry outburst - I do that and I have to stop... got it

What I don't see or have a good handle is when she says I treated her bad... The one think I will put on this column of treating her bad is that I'm sarcastic at time... I have on a few occasion asked her why she has this puss on her face.. and truthfully I can think of anything else that would fall under I treated her badly.. I think just the opposite is true I think I have treated her very well... (I know the yelling is not treating somebody well)
So would it be a mistake on my part to ask her for examples of what she says is me treating her badly... not to argue with her not to know what I need to change... maybe I'm doing something that I'm nor aware of that is hurting her...

The restaurant story is worrying on many levels; for one thing, it appears that she does not have a full picture of your financial position and that you were able to hide your income level from her. This is wrong in marriage and should never have happened. Your wife should have been aware of all your income and expenses at the time she married you (and you hers). She might have decided not to marry you (or she might have gone ahead), but if there had been full transparency between you about money, that incident could never have happened as it did.

How you interpret your anger and its causes it absolutely irrelevant. The point is that you did what you did to your wife and she hated it and left you. She does not care, and neither should she, that it comes from your upbringing or that you see it as more childish than abusive. Your anger is an attack on her and she has no incentive to put up with it for one second.

I can't tell you whether or not she will give you another chance, but eliminating anger as a response to anything for the rest of your life is the only way to attract her back, and keep her. You must start there, and we have given you Dr Harley's advice on anger management groups and bio-feedback devices. You must use this advice and stop talking about why you get angry and how it isn't that bad really. Your anger is as bad as murder; it killed your marriage. Stop rationalising it and get to work stopping it for good.

Your wife might stick to her guns and stay away from you, but you will not know whether you can recover your marriage unless you get rid of your anger, and then court her and romance her.

Your posts sound frantic and anxiety ridden. Your gunna have to get better control of yourself. Your past is no excuse to yell. Anger for any reason is unacceptable. Until you get control of your anxiety your wife will not feel safe.

Have your read the basic concepts of marriage builders? Do you understand how many love units you have withdrawn with this absusive lovebusting pattern? You sir are unsafe in this mental state. Your wife likely feels you might become violent during one of your outbursts. Your going to have to let her have some space and time. Tell her your going to take an anger management course and ask her if she is willing to possibly date once that ball is rolling.

Did you see the biofeedback link I posted and understnad how it measures your anxiety?

MNG

It would not be a mistake if you can do it respectfully, and accept the answer without a shred of arguing or disagreeing with what she says. Can you do that?

You have already shown me that you discount what she says when you tell me you know you are sarcastic at times but also say that you don't know what makes her say you treat her badly.

Sarcasm is horrible in marriage. Spouses who do it usually have no idea how caustic their behaviour is to the spouse who is in receipt of it.

Can you ask your wife respectfully about your love busters, and accept what she says without challenging it in the slightest?

Her first marriage she was young and I think she just wanted to leave her house.. the second marriage (the one that all the children came from) I'm not really sure, he stayed away a lot from the family at the golf club would come home late did not like doing things with the family ..he had one favorite son the middle one and the other two he ignored and did not like the oldest.
She did cheat on him once and she told me that she left so bad about herself that she would never do that again..

I have not had an affair or cheated on any of my relationships.

She just got her real first job her in the USA she will be a sales person for a trucking company .. she will be taking clients out to lunch, dinner and sometimes they will be over night trips.
As I said my wife is a very beautiful woman and I know men will be making passes at her.. it we had a real marriage I would not worry so mush about this because she would be committed to the marriage 9I couldn't like the fact that men are making passes at her but I would trust her ) but know that our marriage is dead as she claims I worry a lot about this... that she will find somebody and that will be the end of us... so much easier you start something new because there is no baggage and try to fix it with the ex-hus. She said she would not have any type of relationship with anybody for the 2 years we need to be married and she would not got out on dates or anything... she said this is the furthest thing from her mind and that she went 4 years with our have sex with anybody after she divorced from 2nd husband...
You will tell me I have no right or control over what she does, and that is true,,... but that doesn't help me feel any differently.. about what it out there..

My wife new everything about my financial state I was not hiding anything and she new everything... I never hid anything for her about anything.. I was always up front about everything. and she chose to marry me .. even though I had no money.

I will ask about how I treated her badly... would it be better if I did that in a email so not to argue with her.
I put sarcasms under the column of things I did to treat her badly

So in your opinion how should the kids talk to her about wanting this marriage to work and her coming back to it and making a home for all of us.

How do they ask or express themselves to her?

You are absolutely right my anxiety is sky high... I did look at the post you suggested on Biofeedback... does it really work and it teach you how to control your anger ?

I own one without the meter device. (Was extra money) yes it works. It doesn't "teach" you to control your anger per say. More like helps you recognize where you are at. Shows you how quickly your body responds to anxiety before you even realize it. You teach yourself to recognize the inner feelings created wh you have anxiety. Not all anxiety is bad but when anxiety is taking control it makes us temporarily insane. When anxiety throws you over the top or your riding near the edge of almost not being able to handle stressful situations rationaly and respectfuly you become a threat to yourself and your wife and kids.

Its not an easy device to use. But is a valuable tool in helping your body relax under stress. Riding too close to the edge of a breakdown is very unhelpful. Infact your wife probably feels your anxiety level before you even know your anxious. Women are very intune with feelings and often feel and respond to anxiety soooner than men do.

Some signs of anxiety are : cold hands and feet, a knot in your stomach. Racing obsesive negative thoughts some of which you might often feel you can't control and believe it or not headaches.

Anxiety will lower your immune system by 50% right off the topcouple that with whatever other stress is going on and your immune system drops even further. Anxiety will create all sorts of ailments and women get health problems faster than men due often because they are emotional creatures so are effected by it a lot sooner. (Partly why dr.harley says plan A for wom only like 2 weeks and plan a for men is 6 months - year.

If your not emotionally stable.. Your wife will never be. Your the leader of your home and being in control of your emotions and anxiety will lead your entire home to a similar state. Feelings follow actions. You need to do the right actions so everyones feelings can follow yours.

MNG

Edit: if you get one. Mark the "zero" spot with a pen next to the sensitivity dial. The closer to "zero" you are the closer to being out of control you are. I marked mine and when I first started using it I was at a 2 or just under. I have worked my way up to 3.5 in just over a year. Just that amount has made a huge difference in how I act and respond under stressful situations. The first time I used the device I was medetating with it and slowly adjusting the sensitivity up and boom I passed out and fell asleep trying to relax and up the sensitivity.

Edit #2: notice in the video where the guy says "all I do is tell her I'm going to ask her a personal question and it spikes up. Well each time he never even asks the question he just mentions he's going to. Each time he said he's going to but never does the meter responds less and less.

Thanks I get on of those biofeedback devices ... 6 months to a year... oh boy

Its not easy... But nothing worth fighting for ever is. And it could be less time for you. Don't beat yourself up over slow progress if its not happening as fast as you like. You likely have an anxiety disorder from your upbringing always uncertain of when someone is going to yell and have over time trained yourself to act the same. It took you years to get where you are. Its going to take a while to retrain your neuropathways to respond differently. You likely won't ever get the sensitivity dial up to 9 heck or even 5. What matters is where you are at and getting better at recognizing your own state. At 3.5 I feel totally calm. I may never get to 5 myself but the improvements I have made are huge!

I have another question... and I know that I should not have these question and that they are probably no possible correlation between one and the other... (and fairness has nothing to do with it) but the question still runs around my head.
If I'm suppose to trust her that she will not have any type of relationship with anybody for the two remaining years we have to stay married .. And the correct thing for me to do is to stay married to her so she can get her permanent visa ... why is it completely unreasonable that I would think that she should try to save this marriage, to trust me (6 months from now or year from now) enough to believe I have changed and that she will not be in any emotional danger at my hands... I know this sound like it not fair that I have to do all the giving and all the trusting and she does not...
Did I give up or lose all rights to expect equal or fair treatment because of my angry outbursts... did I lose right to think that she should be able to trust me... I know I did wrong.. but does that mean I have to put all what I think is right and fair aside... and what is wrong with having expectations of people.. this is so frustrating ...
Wouldn't it be correct to expect her to want to rescue our marriage... is it wrong for me to have these expectations.

do you take the biofeedback with you when you go out.. I would like it if this device would give me a electric shock every time my anxiety went up... so I would know instantly... kind off like POVLOV dog.

No I do not take it with me when I go out. I use it at home when I am relaxing. Many things in life will give you anxiety. Its how you manage it when it comes.

On this same subject: In the year that Chris & I have been together not only did I fall in love with her.. I also fell in love with her three boys.. I taught the to hunt and fish and I went to all their shorting events and I'm as proud of the as if there were my own... Know they are taken away from me, not that I can see them but it is not the same, they are not in my day to day life, I not get to see them playing soccer .. This hurts like hell to ... I fell like fall in love with my kids and I'm so glad you guys are so close and then the next day they are taken away.. the kids is also a reason that I feel she and I should want to fix our marriage and not just throw it away.. like she has decided to do..

When the bank robber is sorry he robbed the bank. Should he not still go to jail even though he might still be a nice guy 80% of the time and even though the bank got their money back?

MNG

Just because YOUR in love doesn't mean she's in love. The reason YOU feel those things is because SHE meets YOUR needs. Meanwhile she's NOT feeling "in love" with you because more withdrawls have been made than depsoits in her love for you. You might meet her needs but the withdrawls are greater.

MNG