I'm still in NC with H. No word from him and have not contacted him.

I don't feel up to dealing with divorce yet.

His birthday is on Sunday -- having a hard time with that but won't contact him.

Just wanted to drop by and update. Only having a crying jag once a week now.

BB

{{{{Hugs}}}

How's everything else going?

I'm spending a lot of time with my extended family, have scheduled some time with old girlfriends from high school, and am still on the lookout for the right rescue dog.

I guess I'm a little less heartbroken, and am a little less foggy about H and how he's treated me.

I know I'm supposed to be taking this time to develop myself, become less dependent on the idea of having "someone", but I find this part very difficult. Let's face it, I'm 62 and it's a very real possibility I'll end my days alone. This happens to many women, but I would rather have had it occur as a result of natural aging and death -- not divorce from my supposed lost love from high school.

Anyway, that's where I am. Thanks for asking graceful.

I'm glad the crying bouts are subsiding and you are staying busy. Onward and upward....hang in there, bluebird!!!

You know BB, I cannot wrap my head around your foreboding about being alone as though being without a man renders you as a person of less value or that being with anyone other then your husband is less then. I sense your shame and it stabs my heart. Its hard to hear you being so uber hard on yourself and God. Its more likely you are on your way to hitting the sweet spot in your life-- whatever that will be!

I'm glad to hear you are pursuing your puppy. You must have a particular kind of dog in mind? I adopted a mix breed about 6 years ago, the first dog I can call my own. She goes nuts when I walk in the door.

I'm truly not sure why you believe that's such an awful thing. The worst female lives seem to me to belong to those women who have a death grip on a man because of a real fear of this. They will not let go, unless as you say, actual death comes!

It doesn't make any sense to me. Women are capable of having wonderful lives on their own, much more so than men. I was reluctant to get involved with someone because my solo dont-have-to-check with anyone life was so marvellous! I also know my mother would walk out the door away from my wonderful father without hesitation if he stopped truly caring for her - and that she would have a wonderful life to boot. I think that's actually the key to their marriage, that she is not dependant.

I suspect you've never tried living your life single and vibrant yet - so how do you know it's not a good life?

I also never got the news flash that all men in their sixties now commit hari kari when they become single. There are men if you want one!

You've only been doing this five minutes so i don't expect you to be 'there' yet. I do however want to know where you're are headed. What are your plans? What will your life look like?

Thanks grace and Indie

I was always an introverted person - only had a couple of serious bfs in highschool (one of them was current H) and was rather sheltered. I went straight from home to marriage and recall being terribly homesick for the first year or two. My first H was very domineering and me being so passive, I let him take over.

I've really never known a life without a man (except for those years after the death of 1st H, which were terrible and I hated).

Finding second H seemed like a miracle because I was really scared to date and be confronted with all the issues around that.
He just walked into the room at our HS reunion and bam he had me.

I want to feel free of guilt and self-blame -- that's my number one goal, then to get over the shame of this marriage break-up. Lastly I want to feel comfortable in my own skin - which I've never really had.

thanks

MY prediction is that when you face this fear of being without a man you will wonder what all the fuss was about.

Think of the song from My Fair Lady

"There'll be spring every year without you
England still will be here without you
There'll be fruit on the tree
And a shore by the sea
There'll be crumpets and tea without you

Art and music will thrive without you
Somehow Keats will survive without you
And there still will be rain on that plain down in Spain
Even that, will remain without you,
I can do without you"

My experience (as I was engaged at 17) was that I'd been missing out. Being able to explore this big wonderful, teeming world of ours with never a need to PoJA was incredible. I value marriage very much, but you are freer alone.

Since I'd never HAD a supportive marriage, being alone was far, far, better than marriage. I wasnt held back by a tonne weight of black and white thinking unenthusiasm and negativity. I could do what I wanted and go where I wanted. Sure I didn't have a help-meet for my goals but I didn't have a big sodding hindrance tied around my neck either.

Since entering Plan B I have lots more interests, far better friends, a brighter and more intelligent mind and a whole new career!

It's a bit early for your Plan B castle to be finished just yet -you haven't stocked it's walls with goodies yet. You haven't explored it's landscape.

What will you do with this freedom to create any life you want?

I loved your post Indie -- and the excerpt from my Fair Lady !

Time is what I have (I hope) to work on these things.

I'm not in the habit of using musicals as a way of proving my point - but everything claimed in that song is unrefutably true!

Not a fan of musicals either, but that quote was very apropos!

I thought I would check back here.

Still in NC with H except for one time where I broke the rule by sending him a b-day music video. He sent back a polite thank you but no further response.

I'm still trying to recover and get used to being on my own -- haven't initiated any formal proceedings.

Not crying every day anymore.

The more I read the more I feel H has some kind of personality disorder such as NPD or Borderline. The literature also says that these people are pretty much beyond helping because they're usually so deeply wounded by their family of origin. In H's case, his mother was cold and neglectful and father was not much better. H never got the love and affection he needed from his parents and was pretty much left to fend for himself as an only child. I believe this is why sex is so important to him - his only way of feeling needed or getting affection -- and why he looks at porn etc and has so many failed relationships in his past.

What are Dr. Harley's views with respect to a spouse with a major personality disorder? I haven't really seen anything where he deals with narcissism or borderline pds directly. Would this just be a case of calling it quits if you're married to someone like this? Would Marriage Builders even work?

Stop sending him enabling messages

Stop reading up on his 'disorder'

Seriously, stop.


Bluebird, I am very disappointed that you disrespected yourself and sent him a message that essentially labels you as worthless and desperate.

I know that's not you - you are valuable, intelligent and kind.

You must feel horrible after draggin g yourself back to square one.

What can we do about this self destructiveness streak?

How much time do you spend checking email and your phone for contact and do you think you can block contact with him so as to regain that time?

That could describe a lot of people on these forums who are loving spouses. One vet was awoken in the morning by parental beatings and raped as a small girl. She is an excellent wife because she just decided to be.

Probably your H did pick up some bad habits but he isn't insane. He is able to make choices like any grown up. It's easier for him to treat women like kleenex and that is his conscious, grown up choice.

Dr H says people with true disorders won't abide by MB but that he doesn't see it very often. That's because people with true disorders cannot keep it together long enough to impress a girlfriend to the point of marriage. The mentally ill are excluded from the dating pool by natural selection. Your H got three women to marry him so clearly he can behave when he chooses to and he feels it benefits him.

No matter what the reason; disorder or stubbornness - he wants no part of MB and you have to face that and get a grip.

Here's a radio clip of Dr. Harley discussing this.
Radio Clip on Disorders

Tell us what you think.

Bluebird do you understand that porn is not some kind of disorder. Dr H says only a tiny minority of men watch porn due to a disorder of the mind. The vast majority of men find watching naked women entertaining and fun. That's why it turns a proft:

BB,
Pornography and affairs are independent behaviors that are deeply offensive to BS.

This concern for your husband having a personality disorder is a distraction. Your taking too much time to analyze him. In the past I've been guilty of this kind of analysis paralysis too.

I am a collaborator which is great when it comes to following MB w/an equally collaborative partner. But if your partner is an avoider and uses IB (porn) to avoid, your collaboration will be turned into a negative loop and tormentation towards yourself.

Cut your loses. Get an IM and an attorney. Re-direct your collaborative efforts. (adopt a pup) Your stability is the new game.

Thanks everyone for the hitting me with the cluebat -- I needed that. Actually, for me to have only broken NC once is pretty good. In my first marriage I would have been begging and pleading H#1 to stop the silent treatment. Stopped checking e-mail about three weeks ago. I agree should not have sent him the birthday video. However his non-response did not send me into a whirlwind of despair this time.

It was very interesting to read (again) what Dr. Harley says about porn. H probably started off behaving badly because he had poor parenting, but yes, he continues it now (porn) because he feels it's his right. And yes, he can turn on the charm when he needs to to get what he wants -- and then turn it off when he doesn't. He knows what he's doing, but doesn't really care if it hurts me. Selfish and foolish.

I'll listen to the radio clip now.

No it isn't and it is a really seriously destructive thing you have done to yourself.

That's not to say you can't start over now. Just stop with the backsliding if you ever want to get out of the shade of this thing.

Bluebird I'm going to toss this one out there and you can catch it if you want.

Post here once a day, and once a day I want to hear about Plan Bluebird. One self care tip a day. Anything from ice cream to activities to friends. Something you would want someone following in your shoes to do after you.

I also want to hear about the destructive thoughts BEFORE they turn into destructive actions. A music video took some time to dream up and plan and you avoided help with that.

What do you say?