It is good that he hasn't discarded it out of hand.

Your husband *knows* the porn is wrong. He has no real defense for it, and he knows that, too. You have called him on it, in a thoughtful and respectful way. Stick to your guns, and don't compromise in a way that invalidates your argument. The porn has to go, or you really have no marriage to hang on to.

Bravo to you, bluebird!! Just stick to your guns. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Agreed. I would try to refrain from "romanticizing" the relationship by reflecting on times you spent together as teens. That time in your life doesn't really count - you two didn't have the same issues that a married couple would have to face. You have to focus on the behaviors that occured during M. That's reality - and who your H really is.

x2

Has he said anything yet?

We had a talk this morning. He says he still doesn't trust me to provide the kind and variety of sex he needs to be happy. I asked him if would commit to stopping porn use - that he had to to do this or our marriage would be poisoned and we were heading for separation.

He stood there for a few minutes and said that he would stop but needed me to meet his needs at least 2x a week and wear a dress one night a week. He said he would not ask me to do anything I wasn't comfortable with. The other two nights he said he would be fine with what he calls "blander" SF.

He said he does not want to split up because he spent too many years thinking about me and hoping he would somehow find me again. He said he realizes age is against him and a split would likely find him struggling to find a compatible, healthy mate.

On the other IBs he was less enthusiastic - said his exercise was important to him and he could not stop without feeling terrible, so as a compromise he will still do the two hour walk but only juice three times a week and the rest of the week we would either go out for lunch or have lunch together in the house.

To me this seems positive. Any thoughts?

You can be trusted to do things you ENJOY, though. So as long as your enjoyment is assured, there shouldn't be a problem. If he asks you to do something you don't enjoy then he can "trust" it won't be done.


A better solution is to find things to do that you BOTH enjoy. Do you ENJOY wearing a dress? I know I sure don't. What else did he ask you to do?

Again, the key here is WHAT DO YOU ENJOY? Did you tell him what YOU enjoy so you can discuss ways to reach MUTUAL ENJOYMENT.


Are you happy with that? If not, then you should not agree to it. He does not need to be "enthusiastic" about stopping something that makes you unhappy because he shouldn't have been doing it in the first place.

He needs to stop the porn REGARDLESS of what you do. Will he stop the porn use and open up his computer to you so you can check it occasionally?

You are GETTING THERE, but you need to drive this deal home. This is not done yet. So go back to him and make these points.

I want you to drive this point home. Memorize this talking point and say it repeatedly:

"If you ask me to do something I don't enjoy then you can "trust" it won't be done. Therefore the solution is to only focus on things we both enjoy."

We're having dinner out tonight so I'll discuss this more with him then. He will not be asking me to perform anything bizarre or unusual in those two nights a week -- I have an idea and I'm ok with it. My main problem has always been the fact that he's made me feel in the past that our relationship is only as good as our last SF encounter, and that made me feel very insecure -- this and the fact that I feel his thinking has been fueled by his longtime porn use. Unfortunately, in his previous marriages he was able to get his xws to look at porn, which is one reason he thinks I'm a prude.

I still feel we're on shaky ground as he is a type A person used to having his way and living independently within his previous marriages.

I can wear a dress once a week, though I'm really a jeans and sweater person.

Dr Harley would call this controlling and abusive. He makes selfish demands and then punishes you when you don't comply. That is how sexual aversions and incompatibility are created.

As long as you are EXCITED and ENTHUSIASTIC about it, you should do that. If not, you should not. Because if you make this sacrifice pretty soon you will be looking for excuses to not do it. If you do it grudgingly, you will be resentful and he will be resentful when you stop.

What you should be doing is finding something to wear that makes you BOTH happy. I won't wear a dress, but I will wear cute, low cut tops with a nice jacket and heels and my husband LOVES it.

So once again, you must BOTH love it. It is up you to stop making sacrifices. Don't wreck your marriage through the practice of sacrifice.

Erase anything about which you are not enthusiastic. VERY IMPORTANT!!!

And yes, his porn use has warped your relationship in a horrible way. If he calls you a "prude" I would explain that is extremely disrespectful and ask him to stop.

Melody yes, I recognize the signs of someone who could be abusive in a passive aggressive way - the fact that he gives the silent treatment, blames me for problems in the relationship, never says he's sorry when he hurts my feelings, and lacks deep compassion when I've been ill in the past. Unfortunately I saw none of these red flgs while he was courting me -- now I realize that is how these things work. But we are married now and I'm willing to work on things as long as I feel he is too.

BB, you really should strongly consider going through the MB program. My marriage started off horribly too. It was my 3rd marriage and I caught my H having internet affairs right after we were married! I thought our marriage was doomed and was ready to end the marriage. We accidentally stumbled upon Marriage Builders through local counselor [a miracle in itself] and went through the MB program in 2007. We have a great marriage today and our problems were as bad as yours. I felt exactly as you do that my H only viewed me as a sexual outlet. That has changed dramatically. I feel very cared for by him. You would greatly benefit from the MB program.

It runs about $1000 and takes about a year. They assign you a trained MB coach and Dr Harley personally supervises your case. You would have daily access to him on the private forum. Check it out here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_program3.html

Your coach contacts you weekly and guides you through the program. She would help you navigate the obstacles and speak to both you and your husband. If she can't get anywhere with your husband, Dr Harley would speak to him.

And Dr Harley is not going to put up with his control and abuse.

I'm so happy you are seemingly being heard. But you have along way to go and will both need support. The MB program is a great idea. Also you might get an appointment with Steve Harley. Your husband giving up porn will be easier said then done. His withdrawal likely won't be pretty and you already know you don't want to play porn star. Only agree to what you will enjoy. Sure you can try something such as wearing a dress 1 time per week and see if that suits you. But if it doesn't you can't continue.

I was thinking you might have fun going shopping with your husband and find outfits you both like.

Anyway please consider a structured program for the two of you and coaching. I'm so glad you stood up.

Thanks Melody, grace and all. I gave him a copy of His Needs Her Needs, which if followed, is the prescription for a successful marriage. If he reads it and tries to follow the principles, we'll be on a much better footing. He's a highly intelligent guy so I hope he can understand why the book makes sense. I'd like to try it this way first.

There is nothing passive about the things you describe!

Here is a clip on passive aggressiveness.
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=3873

This morning he says he thinks we should separate.

He said that based on everything that's transpired, plus the fact that we had problems in our other relationship ( the hs break--up) he questions our ability to ever be happy together.

He says there's nothing more to say - everything's been said before.

I think he is done.

BB, I am so sorry. But surely you can see that if he won't commit to making changes, that this is the best thing? Can you imagine living your life out with someone who only has you around for sex? And who makes selfish demands about how you meet them, never caring about your happiness? That is a miserable marriage.

On the other hand, if you make it clear what changes you need when you separate, that might motivate him to make the necessary changes for reconciliation.