Right, that's Plan C.

It would be better to Plan B and create an attractive life for yourself. One he might be tempted to join. This desperation and chasing after him with forms is most unattractive.

Besides all of which you know the A is really in full swing right?

How is the A in full swing?

I am working on my own life...

You say:



But you do:



I don't have any interest in persuading you off Plan C. It's your life, not my life at risk. See for yourself how much of it you can survive. You will discover for yourself how unpleasant it is and how much it encourages him to string you along and be unfaithful.

Try it.

There is no NC letter written by him for you to send. if the A were dead, never to be resumed, this would be an easy gesture.

Why would he care if the A is dead?

ooh okay, I completely forgot about the no-contact letter from him, for me to send. Can I have a friend (of mine, not his) send it instead? For my own mental health, I cannot know her full name (or it WILL make me go crazy, because of my past issues. There ARE questions I want answers to, but her name is not one of them)

Even though he doesn't want to reconcile with me, should I see if he will write it? Try to set up some type of stipulations even though he does NOT want to reconcile?

more of a - there will be no more of these family days unless you do ....

Please read.
BSs Plan C is not a Plan

Dr. Harley advised you to go to Plan B, but you didn't want to take his advice.

We on the forum have advised and tried to backup what Dr. Harley has stated. You didn't like Dr. Harley's advice or our advice and instead you went to others until you found what you "wanted to hear".

We advise Marriage Builders on this site.

Why don't you see if your WH will write a NC letter?

Then I suggest you file for a D and don't try to recover. If you don't know her name then you won't be aware enough of the enemies of your marriage. You won't know if she shows up to be your new best friend. It's like volunteering to be a sentry but you have to wear a blind fold because you are scared.

Do you understand how tough recovery is going to be? It is 2-5 years of VERY hard work. That's after your WH is fully on board!

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

Dear H,

I want to have a romantic, loving, SAFE marriage and I will NOT stay in a loveless marriage. I am willing to give you an opportunity to earn my forgiveness. In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take:

1. End all contact with OW for life - send her a letter that we write together and is mailed by me (not by text, not by e-mail and absolutely NOT in person!)

2. No more nights apart or going out without each other - create a healthy, integrated lifestyle

3. Complete transparency - cell phone passwords,finances etc

4. No more opposite sex friendships

5. Complete honesty about your affair<s> � passing a polygraph

6. Commit to a program for marital recovery of my choosing.

7. Moving to new neighbourhood and or job (if applicable).

Tell him - This is what it will take to keep me in this marriage. You will have to have willingness and ability to make radical changes in your life if we are going to be married. Your lifestyle must become an open book, holding nothing back, these precautions are to prevent another affair. I love you and have no doubt that we can rebuild our marriage using these requirements.

--------

Don't fall for all this "I just want to be separated because you are abusive" line. The separation is to pursue his A while keeping you on a string. All he has to do is commit to his end and try it. How can he see you have ended lovebusting while separated?

You must insist on a full recovery or go into Plan B. You must act sure of yourself.

If you act like a desperate woman who will accept crumbs it is how you will be treated. He will live down to your standards.

Next time I see him, I will see if he will write the NC letter (today, he's seeing his brother, and I am getting together with friends).

He can see me ending lovebusting because we are starting to spend time together (as a family), but I do see your point.

I am going to write this list down, and see if he will go for it- show him that I AM serious.

PART of the problem on my end is that I don't have housing - I am living with my own abusive parents, and social services can do nothing to help (apparently, only the drug addicts can get all sorts of help, not people who really need it). I don't know if I WANT him to live here, because my parents absolutely hate him, and my mother used to hit him, and I KNOW she won't stop... (they don't know about the affair, and they won't know..)


The time-thing is difficult right now b/c of his job, HOWEVER, he had just given me a date that that changes. He has become open about finances, I just need to take the next steps and make it EXTREMELY open.

I just wanted to point out that this thread is one long litany of lonelygirl ignoring the given advice. We told her that her husband was having an affair and she refused to listen. [yes, he was having an affair the whole time just like we told her] She dismissed our advice. Dr Harley told her to go into Plan B and she dismissed his advice too. She rejected the advice of one of the top psychologists in the US.

It was plan Lonelygirl that wrecked this marriage in the first place, so taking advice from the same source is unlikely to render different results. Lonelygirl, your best thinking wrecked your marriage and you are rejecting the advice of many, many people who have resolved their own marriage problems.

In short, she has been in Plan Lonelygirl since she got here. I have no doubt that this same muleheadedness played a role in the demise of her marriage and she just doesn't get that.

That is fine if you don't want to take the advice, LG. But why keep asking for advice that you know you won't take? This board is for the purpose of discussing Dr Harley's advice, not Plan Lonelygirl.

LG, when you ask yourself which "plan" you should follow, ask yourself which person has the better credentials when it comes to resolving marriage problems..

lonelygirl's credentials: has wrecked her only marriage and has absolutely no experience in recovering after an affair

Dr Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and author of 17 books: has helped thousands of people recover their lives from bad marriages, either through marital recovery or divorce

Whose has the strongest credentials?

I just said that I am going to have him write the NC letter, etc.

I also didn't ignore all advice. I exposed him as you said, and I told him not to contact me until he and her are done.

and now I am working on stipulations... if he wants to see us as a family, he will have to agree to them.

Here is the letter Dr Harley told you to send - it is called a Plan B letter - if anyone wants to listen to the advice he gave this poster, go to 3-28 in the archives: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=5909

Sample Plan B letter, from SAA (revised edition) pages 77-78:

My Dearest __________,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair possible. I foolishly pursued my goals without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. [Add your willingness to address other complaints that the unfaithful spouse may have communicated prior to the affair.]

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship once and for all. Living with you under these conditions has been the most painful experience of my life, and I can no longer endure it.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friends, ________, have agreed to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. They will provide transportation. If you want to communicate about the children or any other mater, it will have to be through them.

I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you th is way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship, and I simply cannot be with you any longer knowing that you are together. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently end your relationship, follow precautions to avoid absolutely any contact with the other person, and join me in a plan to restore our relationship, I will be wiling to discuss our future together with you.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)

This letter should be delivered by your friends to the unfaithful spouse, and a copy sent to the lover with a note at the bottom saying:

I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for that chance.

Where did Dr Harley tell you to do that?

That's part of Plan B, isn't it? The no contact letter to the OW..

I have a question- since he doesn't want to reconcile with ME right now, but wants family time... could I use Plan B in that way? Like, no contact as family time unless he does the things in the list..?

Nope.

I know you want to try everything ELSE because you are scared of Plan B. You have tried! I guarantee you nothing else will work because this affair IS still on and he is not serious. It is obvious.

Plan B is really nothing to be scared of. All it involves is offering the WS a great marriage and letting them get in touch with you when they are on board. In the meantime you are freed up from cajoling and running after them and creating a great life for yourself.

Most WS are experts at giving you the hard sell: "If you just try a bit harder I might be interested". Dr H has seen this many times before and it means they are not serious.

Have you applied for assistance, like Dr. Harley advised? How is it going to find your own place, like Dr. Harley advised?

Are you on ADs for your depression?