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Originally Posted by DNT
Originally Posted by markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking.
Biblically speaking...the Queen Jezebel and King Ahab reign is found in 1 Kings 18 through 1 Kings 22. Jesus addresses the "Spirit of Jezebel" in Revelation 2:18-29

As I said, the phrase "spirit of Jezebel" is not there at all. The word spirit is not even in that passage, except in verse 29 which is talking about the Holy Spirit.

People make up all kinds of interesting doctrines in fancy Christian jargon and throw a smattering of words from the Bible together - it doesn't make it true, and it definitely doesn't make it a good idea to slander your spouse by claiming they have some kind of messed up or evil spirit.


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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking. Also, it would be a really disrespectful phrase to use about one's spouse. Dr. Harley's advice is to NOT try to psychoanalyze your spouse nor to try to diagnose their spiritual failings. That is not the path to marriage improvement - instead, you have to learn to appreciate their perspective, rather than being disrespectful about it.

But sin is sin.
Let's go back to the basic story of Genesis: God commanded the married couple not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Adam should have refused his wife: No negotiation needed.

When someone is involved with sin, like a wayward or an alcoholic, sometimes the truth of the Gospel is the only thing that can pierce their heart - because the Bible is sharper than any two edged sword.

I don't disagree at all with what you've said, Jedi. But it still doesn't mean this "spirit of Jezebel" phrase is a good idea for a husband with a bad marriage to use about his wife. Even if she's wayward! It's disrespectful, and it's definitely not taken from the Bible, other than pitching some Bible vocabulary together.

Sin is sin, absolutely. I don't think that's what's at issue here.

"Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God" (1 Peter 4:11 http://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-11.htm)


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted by DNT
The name Jezebel literally translates "unhusbandman, without husband, and non-cohabitated"

I'm not sure that's correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezebel#Meaning_of_name

Quote
I've been instructed by spiritual counsel and Holy Spirit through prayer to keep a distance and allow things to run it's course. I can't even "pray for her", because it would enable an unhealthy soul tie which would do more damage to me than her and prolong repentance.

I don't know what a soul tie is. I would tend to side with Jedi on praying for people, unless praying for someone is so utterly painful for you that you cannot bear it, in which case I would suggest you pray one last prayer commending the person to God's care and move on, prepared at any time to receive them back if repentance occurs.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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DNT,

You chose to commit adultery in your marriage and that was the final line with your wife.

You've been advised to plan A if you want to win her back after divorce but have already dated other women.

My great uncle was a preacher in Oklahoma but got ran out of the churches because he pursued women as much as lost souls on Sundays and lost all credibility.

I encourage you to pray, read the Bible and Plan A if you want to win your wife back.

If you want to move on, then have No Contact with her.

As Markos posted, she will be offended if you tell her she is under the control of Satan or another evil spirit. It will not help any potential recovery.

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Read the book of Hosea, where God brings the adulteress woman back to her husband.

Or the Book of Tobit, where God sends an Angel to bring two people together for marriage AFTER HEARING THEIR PRAYERS.

Or Daniel, where the three young men are thrown into a fiery furnace but pray to God for deliverance.

Our God is a living God and the great I Am. There is nothig on earth that He cannot move.


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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
DNT,

You chose to commit adultery in your marriage and that was the final line with your wife.

You've been advised to plan A if you want to win her back after divorce but have already dated other women.

Didn't realize all this - this spirit of Jezebel stuff is a real distraction from what really needs to be done: make love bank deposits, and avoid love bank withdrawals. If the betrayed wife chooses not to recover the marriage, it's not because she has a "spirit of Jezebel." Jesus told people they could leave their spouse for adultery, so let's definitely not call that a spirit of Jezebel.

I think you need to get further away from some of the spiritual teachers with fancy jargon and just read God's word, and work on winning your wife back.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Originally Posted by markos
As I said, the phrase "spirit of Jezebel" is not there at all. The word spirit is not even in that passage, except in verse 29 which is talking about the Holy Spirit.
Markos Jesus' address in Revelation is to the church in Thyatira...which at that time is over 1000 years removed from the person Queen Jezebel who reigned in 1 Kings. So if the person as queen is no longer a living person...then by deductive reasoning, Jesus is addressing a "sprit' or like spirit who is leading them astray..which he calls by name - Jezebel. In the realm of any realm of spiritual warfare or any real time application you won't always see a "phrase verbatim" in the Word. It often requires a need to exegesis the text. For instance, we know the serpent in the garden of Eden was Satan...however the bible doesn't "say that".


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DNT,

Do you want to recover your marriage?

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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
DNT,

You chose to commit adultery in your marriage and that was the final line with your wife.
She recently admitted this wasn't the deal breaker. It was my "treatment of her".

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I encourage you to pray, read the Bible and Plan A if you want to win your wife back.

If you want to move on, then have No Contact with her.
At this point, moving on. NC not possible. We have 2 1/2 and 6 year old.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
As Markos posted, she will be offended if you tell her she is under the control of Satan or another evil spirit. It will not help any potential recovery.
Haven't told her. Not telling her. There is a very specific way to deal with it.

My whole point of posting this thread was that it showed up on Google search. Never figured it would be a MB discussion.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 10:31 PM.

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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
DNT,

Do you want to recover your marriage?
I did. I tried to recover for a couple years prior to the actual legal divorce, in lieu of disclosing the old affairs. There was an emotional divorce that occurred over the course of time. I'm just worn out Jedi. I now know why I was so worn out and why NOTHING would get through...I mean ANYTHING. What....so...ever. Worn out. I've begun to move forward.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 09:58 PM.

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Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Read the book of Hosea, where God brings the adulteress woman back to her husband.
Been reading and re-reading Hosea for about a year now.


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Originally Posted by markos
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=IT0005042

A soul tie can be equated to codependency, but it's much deeper. It's a one sided relationship...described between David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel 18:1 "Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself."

Sounds sweet doesn't it?...However, it is a covenant like bond where there should not be, or where there is no longer a covenant relationship...which is unhealthy emotionally and spiritually.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 10:33 PM.

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Originally Posted by DNT
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Read the book of Hosea, where God brings the adulteress woman back to her husband.
Been reading and re-reading Hosea for about a year now.


Have you read the book of Tobit? (in Catholic or orthodox Bibles)

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JK - no I have not. I looked it up on Wiki. Not sure if I could ascribe the same authority to text of Tobit as I would the Bible. I can understand the basis and application of Tobias' story but would question if it delivers on the righteous "fruit" that is recorded in the Word of God. Just my quick discernment...


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Originally Posted by DNT
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I encourage you to pray, read the Bible and Plan A if you want to win your wife back.

If you want to move on, then have No Contact with her.
At this point, moving on. NC not possible. We have 2 1/2 and 6 year old.

It is not true that having children means NC is not possible. It doesn't take a lot of time around MB to learn otherwise - have you invested effort to learn here?


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by DNT
Originally Posted by markos
As I said, the phrase "spirit of Jezebel" is not there at all. The word spirit is not even in that passage, except in verse 29 which is talking about the Holy Spirit.
Markos Jesus' address in Revelation is to the church in Thyatira...which at that time is over 1000 years removed from the person Queen Jezebel who reigned in 1 Kings. So if the person as queen is no longer a living person...then by deductive reasoning, Jesus is addressing a "sprit' or like spirit who is leading them astray..which he calls by name - Jezebel.

There's a lot of leaps there.

Quote
In the realm of any realm of spiritual warfare or any real time application you won't always see a "phrase verbatim" in the Word.

That's because this is an area where people are typically just making stuff up.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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Markos Revelation 12:11 says "And they have defeated him by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimony..." A testimony is a personal account of things that have been experienced by people and have been revealed in the spirit� or scripture� Things that you would consider 'made up'. There are countless testimonies of this occurring in marriages churches and other relationships... And it always plays out the same. No one is making up the SAME experience and overcoming with the SAME approach and methods.

More importantly we have 1 Corinthians 2:13-15 "When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit�s words to explain spiritual truths. But people who aren�t spiritual can�t receive these truths from God�s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can�t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others."

Last edited by DNT; 04/22/14 06:49 AM.

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Originally Posted by DNT
I am not sure if anyone who posted on this thread is active posters but I was pointed here via Google search. Never thought this subject would have ever been discussed on MB after reading and posting for over a year. I never bothered to search for "Jezebel", but this spirit is precisely what I dealt with in my marriage. It's a dangerous and VERY pervasive spirit in many Christian marriages and the church in general. I highly recommend the "believers" who participate on MB to thoroughly pray and investigate whether or no this spirit exists...especially if you having issues with rebellion, refusal of counsel, prayer, defensiveness to ANY questioning and illogical confusion in conversation....and unexplained emotional distancing.

DNT, first you cheat on your wife multiple times.

You also had recent EAs which you diminished by determining all by yourself that the inappropriate opposite sex contact were not EAs as "there were no expression of love for neither".

You had a porn addition. Trust me, your wife was affected by this.

In a conversation with your XW, you "summarized my realization of dealing with my own depression, insecurities, sexual addiction, and overall being emotionally unavailable to receive or give love."

In a call with Dr. Harley you related that ""your wife feels she is being forced to do things you want to do. If she does not, you get upset and are disrespectful with her", and your thread provides many examples of you doing just that, including throwing your full knowledge of Scripture at her, forcing her to listen to you read MB aloud, etc.

Your wife recounts the following in a text you copied to your thread ""I can just still hear you calling them distractions and saying the devil is using them and demanding they stay in separate rooms from us with gritted teeth.""

Now you have THE GALL to suggest that her withdrawal from the marriage is BECAUSE SHE IS POSSESSED BY THE SPIRIT OF A JEZEBEL DEMON?

Am I to understand this might be discussed a book you are authoring about your "own story"?

I think it may be more productive for you to focus on how your behavior resulted in consequences than to convince yourself that your wife is possessed of a demon.

Last edited by Sunnytimes; 04/22/14 11:11 AM.

Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Sunnytimes - glad you took time to review my story. Yes on all accounts. Focused...still focused...and this is where I am today. If you expect me to continue to self condemn then...sorry. I will fail 'you' in that regard..

Last edited by DNT; 04/22/14 11:25 AM.

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Originally Posted by DNT
Jedi - I am in total agreement with you. We can turn from our sin. It's a matter of submitting our will to the will of the Father through Christ Jesus. He won't force his will upon us...as I won't force my will upon my XW. In fact...Jezebel is such a prideful and unwilling spirit that Revelations states it has to put her on a "bed of sickness" as a result of the unwillingness to repent. The name Jezebel literally translates "unhusbandman, without husband, and non-cohabitated"...how convenient. I've been instructed by spiritual counsel and Holy Spirit through prayer to keep a distance and allow things to run it's course. I can't even "pray for her", because it would enable an unhealthy soul tie which would do more damage to me than her and prolong repentance. Sigh...this is a while different beast. No pun intended.

DNT, she divorced you because you were unfaithful.

How on earth are you construing that to SHE needs to repent?

Sir, you are being deceived with this nonsense that SHE is the offender, that SHE needs to repent, that SHE is so demon possessed that some unscriptureal soul tie would damage you if you prayed for her.

Jesus commends us to pray for our enemies. Stephen prayed for those who stoned him, while they stoned him. There is no Biblical precedent for this soul tie you reference.

However, she is not your enemy. She is your victim.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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