Hi everybody. I just signed up after reading a lot of the MB website over the past few months. My marriage hit a low point last year and I've been trying to rebuild it.

I am married with two DSs, both too young for school. I am a SAHM. It's our first (and we both assumed only) marriage (4 years), and there has been no infidelity or physical abuse. Last year, things between DH and I started sliding downhill. He stopped speaking to me with kindness and consideration; got rude and sometimes mean. His interest in sex dropped to maybe once a month and I about despaired. I know it's not as typical for sex to be one of "Her Needs", but it is a fact that I need it more often than he does. I have coped with low frequency before, but this time, the quality dropped too, to the point that it hurt.

After bringing up my concerns in a respectful way three times (albeit more direct and firm each time), and getting hurtful responses and no hope that DH would do anything to help the situation, I lost my temper. I shouted, used foul language, and threatened to leave with the kids. My temper has remained short since then. It's been quite a change for me. Before this I was gentle to the point of being a doormat. Now that I've discovered that angry outbursts are about the only way to get my husband's attention, I remain less motivated than I should be to get that LB under wraps.

We did have a calmer conversation the next day, and the concerns I laid out for DH then are still the concerns I have now: unsatisfying sex life; poor treatment, especially in the way he talks to me (more on that next); and just generally that our skills at marriage are not sufficient to carry us through hard times.

When I bring up a want or a concern, even in small things like replacing a broken household item, or wanting to discuss our plans for the weekend, things get painful quick. My husband is argumentative. Even when he is 90% in agreement with my suggestion, he will not say so. He will respond with the biggest problem he has with [whatever it is] and argue hard for at least twenty minutes. Once I'm in tears he may admit that he likes [whatever it is]. After that he'll be surprised that I'm still upset, and sometimes he's shocked that I remember the conversation as an argument. After all, he agreed!

Sometimes, I don't even hear his two seconds of agreement. I pretty much drown in all his objections and reasons against. They often veer into criticism and disrespectful judgments. A week or so later I'll bring up my concern or idea again and he'll say, "But I said I was on board with that! I don't know why you never [moved forward with plans to deal with whatever it was]."

Of course I've read everything I can find about how to save a marriage like ours. I bought a book (Gottman's 7PFMMW). I liked it and DH has been saying for months that he does, too, but we have made no progress. DH asked me to send him articles--I tried one from this site. That touched off the argument process I described above. I kept reading. I showed him the Guidelines for Negotiation. We tried to use them once and it was miserable. One more try and then I just mentioned them now and then. Earlier this week I suggested trying them again. He said that he's been using them for a month! He hasn't.

We had recently had what I thought would be our first romantic trip away from the kids. He told me when I complained about his complete lack of sexual interest that he thought the trip would be fun enough without that. Yesterday he started another fight, first thing in the morning, over some small thing. Last night I said that I really could not take this any more--referring to just the arguments. Of course he's surprised that I haven't been sending him articles. I walked him down the list of resources I had given him and his reaction to each. How to Apologize: didn't like the way I'd presented it. The Emotional Needs Questionnaire: he was already on top of it. Counseling: didn't like the therapist. And so on. He disagreed with my take on all that.

I am at the end of my rope. My husband has had a new excuse for not making our marriage his top priority every month for the past six. I can't wait to see what it'll be in May. Yard work, maybe. I have long since run out of ways to warn him that I am not going to remain married to him under these conditions much longer. It's possible that he understood that last night, because he said a couple of positive things.

He said he would find a resource he likes better than the one I suggested on the apologizing topic. He asked me to send him an article from this site. I told him I would send him one more, and I advised him to say something positive about it, because if he doesn't (threatening again), I will never send another one.

I sent him How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love in Your Marriage. He sent an email back when he'd read it, and said he'd read it again this weekend.

So that's where we are.

Welcome to MB

I know you wrote a lot but I have few questions that I think will help other on the forum as well.

Has he always had a low libido? Has he looked at medical reasons for his low libido with as a new medication?

How long did you date before you got married? Did you co-habitat before getting married?

Is this you first marriage? Is it his?

I suspect that he maybe getting sexual needs meet somewhere else. Do you see any proof of that?

I do have a suggestion that may help if he is will to. I suggest you guy find 15 hours a week to spend time with each other were you don't do any love busters and no talk about your marriage just about your day, his day goals, dreams, etc..

While he works to find out any medical problems with his libido!

Lily, I would like to hear his reaction to "How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love in Your Marriage." Will you post it when he responds?

Your marriage could greatly benefit from the book Lovebusters because until you stop fighting and get that under control, nothing will help.

It would be nice if he could come here and post.

Hi life4799.

I don't know if I can characterize his libido as low... maybe at worst low average, and it fluctuates. Mine is definitely high, especially for a woman. I think the problem may be more one of mismatch between us than a deficiency in him. He has always been fine with periods abstinence, such as when he wasn't dating anyone in college. He was also fine with very frequent sex early in our marriage. He has said that the church he was raised in emphasized that sex is only for procreation, and it's been hard for him to see it as something he can enjoy with his wife when we're not trying for a baby. He has enormous difficulty talking about that, and says now and then that he is 'working on it'. Meaning he tells himself not to think things that make it hard for him to have sex, when he notices that he is thinking those things. The only medical issue I suspect has to do with sleep: he sleeps poorly, and goes to bed around 9 to be sure of stitching together enough rest to get through the next day. I have suggested that he speak with a doctor about this. He is not on any medications and is healthy and fit. Same is true for me.

We met 12 years ago and began dating 9 years ago. The question of co-habitation was our first notable conflict, and I think we handled it well. He wanted us to live together before we were married; I was not interested in making that kind of commitment without a marital one from him. Our compromise was a long engagement, and co-habitation after we became engaged. Engaged as in he gave me a ring and we told all our relatives and set a date. We actually merged finances a few months before the wedding.

It is the first marriage for both of us. We both believe that marriage is a lifelong commitment.

I have no proof of infidelity, and it doesn't seem likely. My husband works in a male-dominated field and is introverted. Not flirtatious, no wandering eye, and (frankly) poor social skills. He doesn't hide his phone or his email inbox from my view. His routine is regular and his commute is short. I know his passwords for online banking and credit cards. Dips in his libido correspond to stresses that I am aware of (work, miserable weather--Seasonal Affective Disorder is another thing he could see a doctor about). Even through this period of difficulty (which includes my outbursts), I have remembered to express appreciation for what he IS bringing to our marriage. It just doesn't seem likely.

I suggested the Undivided Attention program to him about four months ago, and he flat refused. Do you think it's time to try that one again?

Hi Melody.

I will certainly post about DH's response to the Plan article.

I agree that the fights are really, really bad for us. I am hoping that DH will be willing to create a plan per the Plan article, and I intend to take responsibility for my Love Busters, and do my part in the plan to get a handle on myself. As for buying the book, I don't know. We have the website, and I'm barely optimistic enough to be using that.

It is very unlikely that DH will post here. Thus far he's been sure that he can use the inside of his own head to solve all our problems. He is brilliant, so that works pretty well everywhere else. I mentioned to life4799--he's really introverted. He told me a few weeks ago that all of his social interaction is dependent on his mental library of similar situations, from which he copies his responses every time a given situation comes up. It not a spontaneous process. He was telling me this to explain why he's having such a hard time with our marital conflicts: he's never faced a similar situation before.

LilyJane

Almost every man has a 48 to 72 sex cycle. Some have learned to control that impulse by eliminating sexual stimulations from their eyes and mind. And with all the history you shared that may be part of it.

Now even though he may say he may only consider sex for procreation, he was willing to have sex with you before married which sound like something he insisted on. And I assume he wasn't doing it to have children. Then he dragged his feet to marry you.

I have found a few men that were abstinent struggle with porn and have a hard time with real life mates. The 5 years of date, the long engagement and co-habitation is all warning signs. Add the lack of sexual desire for you means that he is not being honest about something with you.

I agree with Melody you guy would benefit from reading Love Busters. You guys sound like you may have gotten into a destructive dance.

As far as the undivided attention, make sure you make it a request not a demand. And help him understand the benefit it would be for him, offer to meet one of his needs in exchange and make it clear to him that you will make that time together pleasant for him.

Very, very few people have any idea how to handle marital conflicts so that is not surprising. I would get the book Lovebusters so you can understand what needs to happen in your marriage as a necessary first step. If you don't understand, he won't understand. The resources you have tried in the past wouldn't fix your marriage even if you followed the instructions to the letter. [for example, Gottman does not even believe in romantic love, much less have any idea how to create it]

You will want to explain to him what you need to keep you happy in your marriage and ask him for those things in a well written love letter. Please read this article and see what you think: When to Call It Quits(Part 1)

life4799,

Your reply ignores so many key pieces of information that it is not worthwhile for me to correct every misconception. The picture you are painting of my marriage and its history is inaccurate and made worse by your inventions. This is not helpful. The picture you are painting of my husband's character is completely inaccurate, and insulting, and your remarks are out of line.

Thank you for trying to help, but please stop now.

Melody,

It's funny you should recommend that article, because I just read about Ellen and Plans A and B this morning! It seems like a drastic approach but I do like that it's focused on (eventually) bringing the couple back together under mutually acceptable terms. Also, it doesn't work at all if the wife is indulging herself in angry outbursts. And that's my contribution to our problems.

It sounds like you're advocating that I read up on Love Busters for my own understanding, and meanwhile ask DH, in writing, to focus on meeting my Emotional Needs. Do I have that right? I was thinking I'd suggest that we both take the LBQ next. Do you think it would be better to wait on that, until after I've asked DH for a little more effort towards EN?

I would put aside all talk of EN for now and focus on eliminating lovebusters. All the need meeting in the world will be for naught if you are committing lovebusters. So stop those FIRST. That is step one.

I would simultaneously plan on scheduling 15+ hours per week of undivided attention time. You only need to focus on the 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. Read about it here: The Policy of Undivided Attention

Download your worksheet here: Time For Undivided Attention Worksheet

Keep your focus on those 2 areas: cleaning up lovebusters and developing habits that will restore your romantic relationship.

And if he won't get on board, then you should use the approach in that article and make plans to separate. No one has said it doesn't work if the wife has angry outbursts in the past. The separation plan ALWAYS works because either outcome is a win/win. If your spouse agrees to make the necessary changes you WIN. If he doesn't, you also win because you will be better off without him.

Is your husband using porn?

LJ your husband may have developed a sex aversion. Read about it here overcoming sexual aversion Do the things that Mel has suggested first as it is unlikely he will want to address this issue until he is back in love with you but Dr H has a massively successful technique. He wrote it for women but it works just as well for men.

As your husband is the one who has to do the exercises, he would have to want to address this issue so don't do anything until your life together is better. If you do give it to him, you would probably want to edit it so that 'she' is replaced by 'he'. For now, just think about it as a possible path.

No porn use.

Hi living-well.

I'd be happy to do anything that makes DH feel better about sex. Noted for future reference. Thanks.

Hi Melody.

Just wanted to let you know that I read your entire response; I only had about a minute to answer your question this morning. OK: eliminate LBs first; got it. Not having to deal with them from DH does sound nice, and I miss being able to think of myself as a calm and reasonable person. It may also help me to think of it as part of preparing for Plan A. When I blew up at DH last year, I really had no idea what I would do if he didn't understand or respond to my concerns about our marriage. It is good to have something in mind that is not divorce.

As for POUA... I love the idea. I think 15 hours a week together (just for affection, talking, sex, and fun!) would be great, but I am stumped on how to convince him to try it. I suggested it three months ago and he shut me down immediately. It wasn't one of those times when he says he hates an idea only to act baffled when I don't schedule it later. He completely shut it down. I've also looked at the worksheet, and wow is DH not going to love that.

If you have any ideas (or MB resource links), I'd love to hear them. I'm also going to look around the forum and see if anyone else has dealt with a husband who is reluctant to spend time with his wife.

LilyJane, all you can do is present him the plan and hope he will take you up on it. Dr Harley added one thing to his advice in "When to Call it Quits" and that was to write him a letter telling him what you need and asking him to help you create a happy marriage. When you do that, you should plan to separate from him. The goal in separation is not to divorce. It is hoped that separation will help him see you are serious about this.

That makes men sound like washing machines.

My question (which may be totally out of left field) is: Is your husband's behavior linked to alcohol?

Alcohol? Let's see... he had a beer with lunch when we went out on Saturday. Other than that he might pour himself a drink maybe two evenings a week. So might I.

You know, I had a feeling that anywhere I went for advice, I'd hear this: he's having an affair, he's addicted to [porn, alcohol, something else]. I'm telling you: he's just not inclined to misbehave in that way.

He's a good man. He goes to work every morning, comes right home, plays with the kids, unloads the dishwasher, and on weekends he mows the lawn. He doesn't smoke, drink to excess, or use any drug stronger than Tylenol. He's cautious with money. He's in good shape. If he could just speak to me with respect I don't think I would be here.

I hope saying most women has a 28 - 31 day cycle doesn't make them sound like a washing machines. It just cycles that are shared by most men are at their peak testosterone levels.

We have to ask those questions because often it is the case and we will waste valuable time posting the wrong advice becuase the poster doesn't tell us.

Okay, fair enough. Are there any other basic questions that you (or anyone else on the forum) would like me to answer?