Sorry I wasn't clear. BH had discovered the EA months before he called. I heard him say this. He said he was hurt that my H never contacted him to apologize and talk about it (they had been friends after all). He said he had come to terms with it but never had closure because he hadn't spoken to my H. My H apologized repeatedly. At the end of the conversation BH suggested that the friendship could be salvaged. My H said he didn't think it was a good idea for them to be in contact again...that he didn't think it was a good idea, even if OW wasn't in the picture. He wished BH well and that was it.

I have committed to a few things in the very short term (like the next few days...too much stress thinking beyond that) to help with the anxiety:

No more talk about the EA. I feel I know what I need to about it. Unless someone brings up an angle that I haven't thought of before, I am going to stop talking about it to H and request that if I do, he say something like "I am sorry it happened, but we need to stop talking about it now".

I am not going to visit the "Surviving an Affair" forum. Reading HNHN brought me great comfort for a bit. I actually felt some empathy for OW and saw both her and my H as unhappy people who pathetically, predictably, went down the wayward path of so many before them. It isn't OK, but I actually feel bad for both of them. I was at peace for a solid week after reading the book. Then I found the forums. Great people, great information, but reading all of those stories brought back a lot of pain for me. I'm going to stick to only the Recovery forum for awhile. There are some stories I want to follow up on in the Surviving forum, but I can do so at a later date.

I have become obsessive about checking our accounts, his email, his text log, and the GPS. I am going to set a set time twice a day that I review this stuff and not do any snooping outside of that time frame. I'm thinking on my lunch break and once more when we're both home an inside for the night.

Baby steps.

I know we have issues to work through, but I feel like my questions really are answered about the EA. He knows my need for honesty and I have seen vast improvements in the last year. Unfortunately, I won't know if he's really being honest until a long, long time has gone by without an issue. Until then, I need to monitor and keep EPs in place, but I have to find a way to live my life without getting an ulcer in the meantime. If I feel no relief from these steps, I will make a psych appt. If this helps, maybe H and I can come up with some additional baby steps.

I glossed over the good that's come out of all of this, but it truly is substantial. The difference in our relationship is night and day...It's probably hard to believe with all of the venting I just did about the EA, but I never knew our relationship could be this good. We were always each other's favorite recreational companion and always had so much fun together. We've really gotten good at meeting several of our EN's....Affection is a 100% turn-around. Probably more information than anyone needs to know, but I was abused as a child and suffered from vaginismus for most of my adult life. And was never brave enough to discuss it. It caused all kinds of havoc in the SF area. I am so proud to say that the EA was a wake-up call that I needed to fix some things in me...with or without H in my life. It took four months of treatment, but I overcame my issues (if you don't know what vaginismus is, google it...it's awful to have).

We've come so far. I just wanted to say that because most of this thread has been blabbering about the EA and I am really proud of us too...felt I needed to say that too.

Blessings to all.

Jen. My story is so similiar to yours with the no respect for marriage OW who was the wife of my WH buddy, picture of remorse WH, and not finding MB for over a year. Sorry if I sound cynical but really I am not and I am in a loving recovered marriage now. I never started to recover until I found MB which gave me a PLAN for recovery.

Your WH needs to EARN back your trust. A poly is a great start for him to do that and is one of the consequences of his actions.

It is normal to feel insecure and snoop until your trust is regained by personally verifying what WH is up to when he thinks that you are not looking. Snooping helps to rebuild the trust so continue with it for as long as you need.

Whenever the resentment kicked in, I had to force myself to look at the "actions" my FWH was taking to protect me and the marriage. I would try to think of something WH did just recently that made me feel safe...like that flirty woman that he did not engage with. MB taught me to focus on the present not the past. The present and the future are the only things you can control.


When I finally got the truth it was much worse than anything I ever imagined. But it was a huge relief to finally know the truth about my life. Take the steps to make sure that you have the whole story and then you need to stop talking about the affair. That just keeps you stuck in the past.

Hope that helps a little. Recovery is not easy. This site may be a trigger for you but it will give you an understanding of affairs and how to prevent them. It will also teach you how to rebuild the trust and romantic love.

Thanks, Pokerface. I didn't think you were cynical...or if you were, you have every right to be.

I did read several other books before finding MB, in fact I came across MB because a link to the site was on one of the other book's Resources Site. So even though I didn't find MB until now, the first two books I read after d-day did explain how and why affairs happen and their explanation of it was very close if not exactly to Dr. Harley's. What I like a little better about MB is that there is a specific plan...do A, B and C...it takes away a bit of the anxiety in figuring out next steps. So I don't know that I'm gaining much by reading the stories in the Surviving an Affair forum. They just trigger harsh emotions for me.

I actually don't feel resentful anymore. I did for the first 6 to 8 months. I really have come to understand that both H and I created an environment in our marriage that set the stage for the A. I own my part in that. We're just getting started on this journey, but I am proud of the changes we've made and am hopeful we'll get to a fully recovered marriage some day.

So far H has done anything I have asked and would probably agree to a poly if I requested it. I need to think about what questions I still have. The fact that I was able to read the texts had given me some comfort that I knew what had happened. I will spend some time thinking it over...what my questions are and if I want to do that.

I don't plan on stopping the snooping, but do think I need to set times when I do it and then tell my brain to shush for a bit in between those times.

I am very sorry for what you went through too. Our situations do sound similar. My OW had several affairs...maybe we have the same OW. (Kidding...sick joke).

Take care.

Been thinking about the suggestions for a job change for H.

While I get that access to other computers and phones is bad, there are several good points about his current work place.

Most of his coworkers are other men. There is one woman, who is quite a bit older than him and very unattractive. While I know affairs can happen with anyone, there are much more dangerous work situations than his as far as that goes.

He works in a retail store. I can drop in whenever I want unexpectedly. I have and do.

We have partial ownership of the store. While it isn't feasible for me to track all of the computers and phones that go in and out of the place, if I really, really wanted to, I could go in and view security footage to determine who has gone in and out of the store. I could also easily put hidden cameras or recorders in there.

I am friendly with everyone that works there and several of the business associates (suppliers, etc...).

These things seems like pros for the current job....still tossing around thoughts on the situation.

You need to create an integrated lifestyle where a SSL would be impossible.

I also found myself obsessed with the snooping so I tried to find ways where I would automatically be alerted without having to snoop incessantly. You just need to be creative and find ways to do it. An example would be filters on his computer and e-mail that forwarded things to me based on key words or addresses. Sweetness was one of my filter words.

I think you can also set up alerts for GPS.

Have you read up on POJA? If running is a trigger for you, then you probably are not enthusiastic about it. You need to find something that you BOTH are enthusiastic about and preferably something you can do together.

FWIW, my FWH did not take a poly. He refused when I asked him if he would take one to prove to me that he was being honest. He refused on "ethical" reasons...but that was all I needed to know that there was more out there.

Does your WH read here?

Here's our current lifestyle...if anyone sees room for improvement, I would appreciate your thoughts:

We wake up and cuddle for at least 15 minutes before getting up.

We pack up our breakfasts and lunches together (neither one of us eats out...we bring our lunches and eat at our workplaces).

We call or text at least once a day, usually 2 or 3 times.

We return home within 30 minutes of each other.

We work out - usually together, sometimes separate activities.

We take a shower together post workout.

Both of our phones are within sight at all times. We both get several emails and texts regarding work issues during the week...they are answered in sight of each other.

We make dinner, some nights have a glass or two of wine. Listen to records and discuss the music or watch some TV and a movie. In the summer sometimes we'll light a fire in the back yard. We play with our cats. Do some laundry, stuff like that.

We go to bed. SF 5 or so times a week. (Prior to d-day, once a week at best).

H and I are partial owners of the business he works at. He keeps me briefed on the store location he works at and we work on the business together on Sunday afternoons. On Sunday we also review all financial information together, pay bills, balance checkbook etc. Prior to d-day, I did all of this myself and he didn't know any of the passwords.

Saturday nights are usually date night. We actually leave the house probably 2 Saturdays a month and go out for a nice dinner. The other 2 Saturdays we'll stay in and play games, watch a movie, make an extra nice meal, something like that.

Believe me, I am one of the most untrusting people on the planet (ask the poor souls that report to me). I have boat loads of distrust about the past, but as far as the current situation goes, I don't see that he has much time for an SSL. He's in my sight all but when he's working (and an occasional golf game with a male buddy in the summer....he always texts me pictures of them golfing too and doesn't stay in the clubhouse for a drink afterwards). With all of that and the GPS, I believe I know his physical location 99.99% of the time.


Good idea. Thank you. I am an IT manager and feel a little silly I didn't think of automating some of the snooping!


Yeah, we agreed to POJA just last week. Hadn't heard of it before. Running is an important part of both of our lives, so I am enthusiastic about it. Just not enthusiastic about OW's fantasies about him in the pants. Thus the conflict on how to remove that trigger.


I'm glad you got to the truth without the poly and that you are in a recovered marriage now.

No WH doesn't read here. He's never been big on online forums.

So if you add up your UA time, how much is it?

Depending on the week, anywhere from 15-22 hours.

The Book His Needs Her Needs is not written for those surviving an affair.
Dr. Harley wrote "Surviving an Affair" specifically for those marriages that have been damaged with an affair.
It has a specific plan which Dr. Harley says must be followed for proper recovery.

Dr. Harley would probably encourage you to move, since the OW lives so close.
Based on his extensive experience, he regularly encourages couples to move out of state and start over and be physically away from the OW.

JenDee,

I'm so sorry you have experienced this EA. It's amazing how similar our stories are. I would never wish what you're going through on anyone but it's a little comforting to know I'm not alone or crazy with the anxiety I'm feeling. You describe so many actions and feelings that I do everyday. My difference is that WH's EA was with a co-worker and both are still at the same employer. This prolonged the complete end to the EA.

H has finally had the NC conversation with her and reports any interactions he has with her on a daily basis. Most seem specifically business related however I feel like she seeks out reasons to NEED to talk to him. He is the IT Manager at the company and I swear she breaks thins on purpose. (Paranoid??)

H has talked with me about looking for another job and has begun the process of updating his certifications to look better on a resume. He has also mentioned moving to another state for many reasons but as you mentioned, their inappropriate conversation was mostly via text and moving can't fix that.

I think I will plan to follow your plan to limit the snooping and try not to talk about the affair. I just want the insecurity and anxiety to go away.

Hi softy, I posted on your thread. Would you mind giving us an update there?

Struggling

Softy, you should understand the affair is NOT OVER. All that has changed is that your husband now calls his affair "business contact." That is like an alcoholic continuing to go to the bar but changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks" and proclaiming his sobriety. He is just as drunk as he was before.

Your husband's affair is NOT over, dear.

What NC conversation?? There's no NC conversation in the recovery plan.

Deviating from the plan usually leads to failure to recover, so I wouldn't expect to recover like this. I am sorry.

Hi Softy-Thank you for your kind words. I am very sorry for what you are going through too...my H's EA was by far the most painful event in my life and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I'll let the veterans here talk to you about your situation with your H...but I can say for sure that I could not tolerate my H having continued contact with OW. NC was a deal breaker for me...I didn't know about MB on D-day, but that was the first condition I insisted on....NO contact again, ever. I struggle with my anxiety on a daily basis...I don't think I could function at all if I knew my H was seeing OW...even if he had the best of intentions of keeping things "professional".

For what it's worth, I am also a manager in the IT world...I manage a team of software developers. For the past few months we have been trying to fill some IT positions in our department and have had a really hard time finding qualified candidates, or any candidates even close to what we're looking for. I've had discussions with other IT managers from different areas of the country and they are facing the same issue. I don't know your H's specific skills, but from what I know of the IT world, if he is an IT Manager, he should have no problem finding work if he's serious about leaving his current employer.

Best of luck to you...again, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

While I'm here, might as well give an update on my situation. We continue to be in recovery. I continue to be an anxious ball of nerves! I have come to realize that I have probably suffered from OCD to varying degrees my entire life. Prior to the EA, I would do things like get up 2-3 times after going to bed to double check that the doors and windows were locked. I have broken door knobs from too much lock checking! I would unplug every electrical device when leaving the house for fear of fire. Obsessive worrying about health issues...stuff like that. Since d-day, I no longer check locks. I (gasp!) leave my laptop plugged in and charging when I leave the house. It's like all of that old OCD energy has been focused on super-vigilant snooping and monitoring of my H. It's been almost a year and half now and I have found nothing even the least bit inappropriate in his actions. His emails and other activities are ridiculously boring. I feel like I should have gotten to the point where I'm bored with snooping and don't do it anymore. H is fine with the snooping....says to keep doing it, that I'm not going to find anything and eventually will relax.

I'm just not sure I'll ever relax again. I fear that worry and anxiety have been a habit in my brain for a long time and it's a hard habit to break.

So I've been doing a lot of reading about OCD and anxious attachment styles and have learned some coping methods to make living with the anxiety a little easier. Lets me release the white knuckles just a bit. I try to live in the present as much as possible, but it's hard! I obsess about the past and worry about the future. I try to tell myself to just deal with what's happening right now and address problems if and when they come up...to enjoy the moment, because there are so many nice moments.

We had a bit of a setback a month or so ago when OW's H called my husband to offer forgiveness for what had happened. OW and her H have separated (she is now having an A with the owner of a porn shop and working at the porn shop...classy act for a mother of 5!). My H and her H used to be good friends. Her H would like to be friends again. My H told him that he will always be sorry for what happened, but having contact with him is not an option...A) just seeing his name on the caller ID is a trigger for both of us and B) interacting with him is just too close to OW's world, even if they are divorcing. We handled the setback pretty well.

Our relationship is completely different than it was pre-A. I have a hard time relaxing and trusting that it's real, but hopefully that will come more with time. We're very much in love and it really feels like we're truly a team. It's been months since any LB's. I think it will be a very long time until trust is really there though.

Anyway, sorry for the long post. Thanks for all of the help and support that are offered here.

JenDee

Also, Softy, one more thought on your H...you mentioned him being an IT Manager and that OW needs help from him when she breaks things. If he's serious about NC at work until he finds another job, as the IT Manager, could he not have someone else on his staff help her with her technology issues? I don't know the structure of his IT Department, but if he's a manager, I assume he has direct reports and if he really didn't want contact with her, he could have one of them take care of her problems. I'm concerned that they're both using his role as an excuse for more contact.

And one more question for you all...

I mentioned in my original post that I'd like to stop snooping because it causes me anxiety when I do it and it's like I've become obsessed with it.

It's been a few months since I posted that, and I think I can explain a little better what I mean.

I understand that snooping and monitoring should, in time, make me more comfortable and give me assurance that there are no other women and I can trust my H. I do feel relief every time I see that there is no bad behavior.

But I also find the snooping to be a trigger. Every time I do it, I'm brought back to the day that I snooped and discovered the EA.I remember reading those text messages and looking at the phone bill and seeing the string of calls to her number.

I know some of you suggested automating some of the snooping, but there are things I can't automate.

I haven't really heard anyone else here talk about snooping being a trigger in itself.

Anyone else had this trouble?

JenDee, I understand what you mean. I came to a place where I didn't NEED to snoop so much because the more my husband demonstrated trustworthy behavior, the SAFER I felt. However, I did do the occasional check up. So maybe you are at that place?

Thanks, Melody. I do think I am at that place...just having a hard time letting go of all of the fear and anxiety. I haven't uncovered any untrustworthy behavior since d-day. It's been almost a year and a half now. And more than that, our relationship is completely different than it used to be. I have zero complaints...both of our needs are being met, we have fun together every day...we really feel like a TEAM now. We never had that before.

The big changes in our relationship like no OS friendships, complete transparency, etc... have been crucial to ensuring that an A never happens again. But it's all the little things that really make day to day life different. Like a warm hug and kiss before leaving for work. And cuddling every morning. And the nice little things we do for each other now...it's just a completely different atmosphere.

I need to somehow make that transition from vigilant snooping to the occasional checkup...struggling with that, but I think you're right that we're at that point now. The super-focused snooping has become a trigger and is keeping the A too fresh in my brain.

Thanks for the input.