I take it you are not having UA at all?

I thought I was helping you! I was enlightening you - lifting you up with the benefit of my superior perspective. Christians call it "encouraging" each other.

I was a [censored].

Tired,
You are getting a wealth of good advice here and you should really listen. Your husband may not be aware that what he is doing is disrespectful but that doesn't change that fact that it is. I can relate and I know many men that can as well. I too was very soft spoken and calm and seemingly patient but I was still being disrespectful. And it wasn't until I started reading Dr. Hs books and going through some of his workshops did I really realize how abusive I was being.

My wife tried but I considered her overly emotional and dismissed her feeling. In fact I convinced most of our friends of that. I didn't go to Dr. Hs books because I felt I needed to change but because I felt as 'an excellent husband', I need to stay educated. As you can tell it transformed me as it should and I'm grateful that my wife hug with me even though I failed to be the husband she deserved.

The thing I wished that my wife made it more clear to me how much I was hurting her, even though I was hard to talk to because I would twist around her words and by the end she was wrong, I still wish she was more clear. If she separated from me that would have been clear.

My wife's mother left her father after 25 years and when she left he didn't know why. She said she told him many times, but he didn't hear it. When she left he was willing to change anything and did change a lot. He was a very abusive drunk and now he is a gentle sober man. His changes was too late because she had learned to hate him. Even though he brought it on himself I felt sorry for him because he didn't know how much his actions was hurting his wife.

Don't wait until it's too late for you to accept his changes, make it clear that you relationship stops until he changes. No one has to tell you that a person that doesn't want to give UA doesn't love you as much as they are claiming to. 15hr of UA is like O2 your marriage can't live without it and you are pretending it can.

He wants honesty then give him honesty by telling him that UA is your line in the sand. If he fails to heed you complaint the move to Plan B. Hopefully like many others he will make the changes then. If he doesn't then you have much bigger problems.

Here is a great article that may help you see what your husband is doing.

Tired honey I strongly believe your daughter would benefit from the changes the folks here are asking you to consider requesting from your H. You both want her to have a husband one day who wants to hear her POV and doesn't try to talk her out of it.

He wants honesty then give him honesty by telling him that UA is your line in the sand. If he fails to heed you complaint the move to Plan B. Hopefully like many others he will make the changes then. If he doesn't then you have much bigger problems.

Ok, let me get this straight and this is what my in-laws, my mom and stepdad, our church, etc would see from their point of view.

I have a man who provides for me, loves me, fixes things around the house for me, is a FABULOUS father, has never raised his voice to me, etc that I am separating from him unless he takes me on 15 hours of dates each week....

Do you hear how absolutely ridiculous and spoiled that sounds?????? I mean no one in my real life would get this at all. They all look at us like we have the perfect marriage. The interim pastor would be totally scratching his head..

Do you realise how absolutely ridiculous this post sounds? Your in-laws, your mother and stepfather, your church and your pastor are not the ones who are unhappy in your marriage. You are.

However, I don't think anybody is telling you to go for a separation right now. You seem to be some way away from that because you have not yet been radically honest about how much of a problem the lack of UA time is for you.

For now, you should be working on this:

Markos thought you would enjoy this quote



It doesnt sound ridiculous at all. A man who refuses to spend his time with his wife, to make her his priority will either end up divorced or with a wife who pops pills to keep depression at bay.

Whatever he is spending his time on means MORE to him than you. Divorcing a man who neglects you for work, kids, chores, whatever HE feels is better than you - is perfectly appropriate.

But, tired, all of that is what I was talking about yesterday - an attempt to tell yourself you should feel different and make yourself different. Yes your husband and friends might do that, but it is disrespectful. Any time people tell you something of the form "you should feel different," it is disrespectful. And it simply doesn't work.

I have seen a LOT of women try to tell themselves they should be happy with their marriages. But it does not work for them, and it will not work for you.

You are tired because you are not getting what God made you to need, and because your husband and others are disrespectful to you about it. You feel this way because you need something to change. It's not that you need to change your feelings - your husband is the cause of your feelings. That's the central realization of Marriage Builders.

The things that you need in marriage are not things you are supposed to learn to be happy without. They are blessings that God made for men and women to enjoy together. They are blessings that we are supposed to give each other and receive with gratefulness, because that glorifies God. God does not want you to become a Buddhist and try to reach Nirvana by trying to annihilate your desires. Is your church Buddhist? Is your husband Buddhist? Because this teaching is Buddhism, not Christianity.

God does not believe in a religion that teaches you to do without the blessings He made.

Does God tell husbands to learn to be happy in marriage without sex? No, He doesn't - His teaching is clear: 1 Corinthians 7 says not to deprive each other of this important emotional need.

Instead of lecturing you, somebody from your church needs to get ahold of your husband and tell him STOP DEPRIVING YOUR WIFE. He is not just making you tired, he is slowly destroying you by robbing you of what God gave him to give to you.

God does not tell us to refuse His blessings and live an ascetic life of deprivation. Here is what God really says:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy%204


Does this word from God come down on the side of advocating abstinence and deprivation? Certainly not - God's command is to enjoy the blessings He has given - not to withhold them from each other and then lecture each other about how we should really be happy with what little we have. God wants you to enjoy receiving the blessing of conversation with your husband just as importantly as he commanded the enjoyment of sex in 1 Corinthians 7.

Or check out what God said in Colossians 2:

God apparently doesn't think much of this "do without" religion at all. He created the world, and marriage, and sex, and conversation, and all the other emotional needs to be ENJOYED and to be RECEIVED with THANKSGIVING. This is how we glorify God - by giving our spouses extraordinary care. It is the primary ministry God has given to a married person.

God definitely doesn't command husbands to coach their wives to do without in 1 Peter 3:7:

http://biblehub.com/1_peter/3-7.htm

I know a lot of people who are wrong about this in my church, too, tired. We all have some learning to do. I wouldn't give those people's opinions a second thought, because it is so clearly anti-Biblical.

Telling a wife to do without conversation in marriage is like telling a Christian to live without prayer and Bible reading in their Christian life. Prayer and the Bible constitute conversation with God. They are important because you can't have a relationship without these things.

And we certainly wouldn't recommend Christians live with only minimal contact with God - there needs to be a real relationship there, with sufficient conversation (both ways) to establish it.

Ephesians 5:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians+5%3A22-32&version=NASB

Marriage wouldn't be anything like God wants it to be if the husband or wife are always telling each other to be content with an inadequate amount of contact and blessing each other.

He can change jobs, and he can change the way he lives, and he has to if your marriage is going to survive. This idea that you are supposed to be happy without it is not working. You can tell it is not working, which is why your username is "tired." And it will never work. It's not from God, it's not working for other people, and it will never work for you. It would be better now to stand up and insist that your husband take care of you, than to keep considering this mistaken idea for many more years while you waste away from "tired" to "broken" to "sick" to "devastated" to "dead."

OK lets look at this in a more Biblical way. First he is not loving you,

1 Corinthians 13:4-7
New International Version (NIV)
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Plus the Bible doesn't command him to do any of the things you list.

Ephesians 5:25-33
New International Version (NIV)
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church� 30 for we are members of his body. 31 �For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.� 32 This is a profound mystery�but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33 However, each one of you also must [b]love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

How can your H follow these scriptures and not make sure that your emotional care is being taken care of. If you have people that care for you how could they want anything other than you being cared for by the man that stood in front of God and said to you that he would. UA is not 15hrs of dates, a few hours of is making love, few hours of it is talking without interruptions, another another few hours is holding hand or kissing and about 4 hours a week you going out on a date where you meet the need of recreational companionship (at less in my marriage that is the case). Most of your 15hrs of UA cost nothing but time.

I'm sure he has no problem meeting the 15hrs of Family commitment but you are suppose to be first in his life according to the Bible, so he should be willing care for you more than he does for them.

I know it may seem like you are being selfish by asking him for what you need because it seems like he is doing so much, but you are not. In fact you are doing it for him, he wouldn't want to be in an unhappy marriage any more than you do. And you are doing it to protect your marriage. Right now you may be able to convince yourself that you can handle not having your emotional needs met but life is long and you won't be able to do it forever. When you break or worse when you start allowing another man starts meeting your needs, he, your family, and friends will say why didn't you just say something.

I don't know if you have ever heard this parable;

A woman hears that a storm is coming and they tell her to move to higher ground, so a Van comes by to rescue her and she says, "don't worry God will save me".

Her first floor floods and a Boat comes by to rescue her and she says, "don't worry God will save me"

Her entire house floods and a Helicopter comes by to rescue her and she says, "don't worry God will save me"

Then she drown and stand before God and say, "God how come you didn't save me", which he says, " I sent you a Van, a Boat and a Helicopter, what else was I suppose to do?"

We are your life savers let us help before it is too late. A person's devotion to God doesn't prevent them from having an affair, in fact the statistics is not affected at all by once devotion to God. The only thing that makes a difference is their love for one another.

God cares about your emotional needs and so should you husband, anyone that understand the Bible and loves you will support you. People are alway surprised by the people that support them when you finally share that they need their support. I could tell you stories of couple I know where the wife was being abused emotionally and truly felt that no one would support them because of how great their husband seemed only to find out that the very people that supported their husband came to their rescue when they found out what was happening, but my post is too long as it is.

Tired Wife: Think of your 15 hours a week as the MOST important time you spend all week. It is the time where both of you connect as Husband and Wife and meet each others needs.
You wouldn't leave him JUST because he won't spend time with you: it is a litmus test. Like a tithe.
It shows WHERE your heart is and WHAT your priorities are.

Your husband right now chooses to put God, his kids, his work, his farm, his chores, his windmill, his missions, his church functions, his extended family and on and on it goes... then finally YOU. You would leave him if he chooses not to meet your needs as the 15 hours a week is simply the Proof in the pudding that YOU are NOT even close to his top priority.
Right now: the proof is all around you. He CHOOSES to put everything on earth it seems in higher priority than you.
(Isn't this the guy who makes sure to take an entire week of to spend alone with each child you have, to go do missions and yet WILL NOT take you on such a vacation alone?) Huge OUCH!!!!!

This is not selfish! Here you are trying with all your might to keep you guys from going down a horrible cliff of marriage disaster by meeting each others needs.

Care for Each Other
Dr Harley:
" The two essential ingredients of a romantic relationship -- being in love and meeting intimate emotional needs -- are inseparable. A man and woman love each other because they meet each other's intimate emotional needs, and they meet each other's intimate emotional needs because they love each other. If either one of those factors suffers, the other suffers as well. That's why it's relatively difficult to keep a romantic relationship on track -- it's very fragile.

If living conditions make the meeting of intimate emotional needs more difficult or even impossible to provide, the love a couple has for each other is at risk. They usually don't see their loss of love coming, because they think their love is based on chemistry (they are made for each other) or their willingness to be in love (their love for each other is a decision) -- factors they think guarantee a lifetime of love. But what really sustains love in marriage is neither of those. It is their effectiveness in meeting each other's intimate emotional needs. "


It literaly is THE MOST important thing you guys do for each other, for your marriage, for your kids, for your relationship with God etc. THE most important Tiredwife!!!! This is why it is a draw a line in the sand. It isn't a little spoiled kid yelling for more candy.
You are being deprived from the very food and water that gives your marriage LIFE. Without this... your relationship will eventually die.

Tired wife, Dr. Harley recommends scheduling 4 - 4 hour dates out of the house, meeting the intimate emotional needs. You would, of course, meet the need for SF at the end of the date at home. It is important that your UA time is scheduled out on DATES because UA time spent at home is lousy for most couples. They are distracted by hobbies, chores, etc so there are endless distractions.

Sit down with your husband every Sunday and plan out your schedule. Write out the times, dates, activities, etc. time that is not scheduled is too easy to put off.

"UA is not 15hrs of dates, a few hours of is making love, few hours of it is talking without interruptions, another another few hours is holding hand or kissing and about 4 hours a week you going out on a date where you meet the need of recreational companionship (at less in my marriage that is the case). Most of your 15hrs of UA cost nothing but time. "

It is actually 16 hours of dates. And more than that if the couple is out of love. UA time spent at home is low quality and very rarely does the trick. For example, it is hard for any couple to focus on each other for long if they are in their busy home with all the distractions. That is not what a dating couple does when they are courting.

This is why going out on dates is critical to success.

***EDIT***

You are right, TW. It does sound ridiculous.

It is ridiculous that you care more about what anybody and everybody else thinks about how you should feel about your marriage, than how YOU actually do feel about your marriage.


And it has lead you to exactly where you stand right now.

A reminder to posters to use MB principles when posting to others, or refrain from posting. Do not debate these principles on threads of people seeking help. You are free to start your own thread to discuss concepts you do not understand.

But this isn't a debate you should behaving on somebody else's thread. MelodyLane posted a summary of Dr Harley's advice If you don't think it is necessary to take his advice you should debate it elsewhere.

In fact, this is probably the most debated concept on this forum. Dr Harley has intervened in the debates a number of times, on the radio show or in print, to make his views clear and yet they are still not accepted. People still urge others to continue doing what they are already doing - which is staying home - but to change the name of what they are doing to "UA time". Changing the name of what they are doing isn't going to improve their marriage.

Dr Harley bases his advice on interviews with women, especially, about what makes them feel in love with their husbands and happy in their marriages. They cite the importance of time spent outside the home with their husbands. He also refers to Joyce and himself when their kids were young; Joyce was with the kids all day and wanted nothing more than to spend a lot of time out of the home alone with her husband. She describes their time on dates as their "escape" - with each other. It was the time they looked forward to most out of all the time in the week.

Dr H says that before they moved to Minnesota, they lived in the area close to both their parents. They used them for babysitting and STILL spent a fortune on babysitters. Joyce had a list of about 15 young women whom she would call at short notice when Dr Harley called from work suggesting that she meet him.

People here have gone to great expense and have been extremely creative setting up networks of babysitters, child swaps, church activities for the children and help from relatives to get their 15 hours outside the home every week. When a marriage is in crisis or when one spouse is very unhappy, as is tiredwife, cutting this corner simply does not improve the marriage.

When couples register for Dr Harley's online course they sign a commitment to UA time, and they account for it every week on a worksheet. If they don't do it properly they are in trouble with him.

I think tiredwife's youngest child is about 15, so there is no longer even any need for babysitters. They need to get out of the house to enliven their marriage and make tiredwife feel loved and in love again.