Copying this from my post on WD's thread because it caused a bit of an epiphany for me (me-thinks).

I would LOVE it if we could have a discussion on this feelings/facts thing. Or should I say emotions versus logic?

Other recovering M's have to be experiencing the same thing, so maybe it would help us all.

Feelings are not Facts. BS Affair-Busting 101, right? And definitely Recovery 101 since we BS's have to operate with a negative LB balance for a while.

As you've all no doubt noticed from my posts, I'm a rather emotional person (haha, yep, I really am). I'm artsy and I love poetry and music and all of the things that trigger emotions.

An interesting realization is that once I really GOT it that I had to bust up the A, in other words when you guys all shocked me silly into realization that I had to pony up and become Miss Logic, then I did.

A couple of weeks ago, I could say that I was starting to feel those dribbles of sparks for H again. It was hopeful. But then I started feeling EMOTIONS again, TRIGGER (!!!) and bam�I tripped over myself going back to my shell pronto. I did not realize this until that post on WD's thread this morning.

So just HOW do we BS's ever EVER take that first step to risk feelings again? How do we even explore having feelings without it triggering mind tapes of what they did?

In case the answer lies in need-meeting: H is still off of (my) mark with IC and affection, but we are working on it. I'm the first to say that as fast as he does hit the target, the target seems to change.

So how do we LOGICALLY let ourselves begin to feel EMOTIONS for our spouse?

I don't know if this is what you're looking for.
Locus of control - Self control - Loss of control

Well, for me, I have been encouraged to write down something positive each day. I've noticed that I tend to write down factual things. Like, my W is spending time with me this evening, or my W is talking to our coach this morning, or whatever it is that I see as a positive thing towards healing our marriage and making it better.

It's so easy to get caught up in all of the things that are going wrong, that I tend to ignore all of the things that are going right. There are lots of positives if I take the time to look around and reflect on them.

But like anything else, it takes practice to make it a habit, so by making time each day to write these little positives down, I'm training my brain to notice them.

It does seem to help. Just my two cents on something that seems to have a positive impact for me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes I am feeling one thing, for example:

She doesn't care about this marriage at all = FEELING

But if I take the time to look at the positives (facts), for example:

Here are the positive things she is doing that show she does care = FACTS

Sometimes I find that my feelings betray the facts so to speak. Things might not be 100% OK, but it's not nearly as bad as I think it is.

but I think that feelings, even when they are not facts, are expressing our EN's

In the LB book, Dr. H. says that we should keep triyng to change SD into respectful requests, even a SD is expressing our need. I think the solution is not to be quiet about a need or a feeling but rather to educate our expression.

WOW, so much great stuff in that thread, thanks BrainHurts. Yes, I had seen it before, but it speaks to me now.

Okay, so internal locus of control versus external. I think that I will need to read this over (and over) again and pay attention to my own self talk.

For now, let's take one thought�I'm being honest here, so please don't beat me up for being too internal/external.

External ---> It's a beautiful day outside and I would love to go out and sit in it. Too bad that H buried us in debt so that I can NEVER stop working any waking moment. I would have really enjoyed sitting in the sun.

Internal ---> It sure is gorgeous outside! I'm grateful that my friends on MB shed some insight into the emotion/logic thing. I think that I am going to lay it to rest for a moment now so that I can finish my work and go sit outside while this sun is still so nice and warm.

Anatomy of Peace sounds like a great read!

Yes Alada, you're right about us needing to be aware of our thoughts so that we can ask for what we need. Educate our expression�care to elaborate?

oh yes, FTF, I totally agree with you. As a BS (well both spouses really), it is our job to focus on the facts. Wasn't there a bunch of references in other posts to how "feelings follow facts"? Or am I confusing issues here (could be).

Feelings betraying the facts, huh? Hmmmm�good points. All of them. This one hits home for me though.

In order to have romantic love, we have to have our most important ENs met with no LB. In order to have our ENs met, we have to allow ourselves to be vulnerable. It means risking our feelings.

As you and your H make your marriage a safe place and you learn to meet each other's needs and avoid love busters, your feelings will follow the actions.

I didn't want to risk my feelings either. I wanted to protect myself, but that meant I wouldn't be able to accept affection from my H. It meant that I would not share intimate conversation with him. My conversations with him would need to remain relatively superficial in order to be "safe."

Little by little I had to force myself out of the feeling of wanting to protect myself from being hurt. Every day my H met my ENs and avoided love busters, my feelings of hurt and pain dissipated, little by little. Finally I didn't hate him anymore, then we went to feelings of, "Wow, actually he's quite different from the way he used to be." Then one day, when I was filling out the monthly Love Bank inventory form, I realized from the way I was filling out my answers that I was in love with him. It took many months to get there, but eventually I could say "I love you."

But the reason I began to feel in love with my H was because he was meeting my ENs and avoiding love busters. Romantic love is the way we feel when someone is meeting our most important ENs. A bit at a time, persistently and consistently, and one day, your love bank threshold is overflowing.

Yes, exactly this!

And for us, it took time and patience. At first, it all felt forced and clinical. But, eventually the feelings followed the actions.

AM

thank you armymama and LWFH, thank you again for sharing your experiences with me.

Yes, LWFH, I do see that I am protecting myself from feeling hurt. What happens is that when I notice that I am feeling pleasant, those "what they did" mind tapes pop back into my mind, and I bet that it would glow on a brain scan if someone saw how fast I go from a flash of anger to sadness to protection mode. I get a physical headache from fighting it.

So my feelings are betraying PRESENT facts. Present facts are that H is constantly adjusting to the (moving) target of what I need.

H has become hyper-alert for cutting off triggers at the pass. For instance, yesterday on the way into the grocery store, he was squinting to read a sale sign. There was a woman standing right under that sign smoking a cigarette. H knew right away to explain to me that the sale item was on our grocery list and that he was looking at the sign and not the woman. Then he followed up straight away with a bear hug and re-assurance that he wants no one but me. That DOES help me to diffuse those icky feelings.

So the present facts ARE okay, and yet my mind is still flashing back whenever I feel peaceful. I am going to keep re-reading the internal locus info. I need to somehow re-frame my own stuff.

Tomorrow actually is the one year anniversary of when I started snooping and tailing my H, and it's three weeks from the one year anniversary of D-Day. I NEVER thought that I would still be married one year later, so I want to find a way to focus on the hope, rather than on the ick.

I didn't really feel completely recovered until about two and a half years. It took me a long while to believe that what my H was NOW doing was real and not going to change. I was in love with him long before the 2.5 years, but it took about that long to not feel that awful sadness and resentment. Throughout those first couple of years post D-Day, especially the first year and a half, I had to constantly remind myself, "What is he doing NOW?" My thoughts would go back very frequently, just like yours. I'd get angry, then sad, feel haunted.

You and your H seem to be doing all the steps. Just keep reminding yourself over and over again, "But what is he doing NOW?"

...and, of course, he has to keep doing those very things that make you feel loved and safe....

I (we) have had some tough times lately. The quick "reason" is that I think that after all of the fall-out from the FR and then the bar being almost unattainable now, I just haven't been able to feel love for my H no matter how high he reaches or how much he keeps swinging at the (moving) target.

I have tried to make a post many times here, but what do I say? H is doing everything right and I am miserable? I've spoken of it before, but I figure that it will just take time to build the LB back up (we've been consistently except for two weeks in March getting 25 plus hours per week of UA time).

But today.

Oh my.

Today.

I think that it will take me a while to process this.

May 25, 2014. H blew me over.

I chose to go to a wedding shower of our much beloved niece. For those of you who have followed my thread, this niece is the daughter of my amazing brother, who sometimes single-handedly saved our M in spite of my ranting to him (constantly) that I wanted to chuck it all.

Awkward situation at the shower because we knew that our niece's mother would be there. She also had a LT affair on my brother and left the family for the OM on my nephew's b-day.

My H and I POJA'd and agreed that I wouldn't go for the entire shower. Just show up half way through and try to honor our beautiful niece. It was outside held at a park pavillion. H went with me and we had agreed that he would wait in the background to rescue if needed. WELL�.when we got there, a hush fell over the crowd, and so things changed�.

H grabbed my arm and walked in with me. Right there, on the spot. Heads held high. OH MY. First home run of the day.

Our niece jumped right up and came to welcome us both. I was enjoying sharing her day but THEN H saw trouble-a-coming. And he suddenly pulled me to him. Someone had come up behind him and tried to hug ONLY HIM. He pulled me THAT FAST and she was forced to hug us both, hehehehe.

This was SOOOOOOO not my H for our entire marriage. He always used to be a people pleaser. Nope. He grabbed me and it was awkward but I'll tell ya what�.that woman ran right off without a word. She really did stop mid-sentence and ran back to her table.

H USED to be dependable. Anyone who knew him (she did), knew that they could play him and dishonor me willingly. I really can't believe myself that I missed it for years. But it DOESN'T MATTER NOW because that is the past. He's not like that now. NOPE. NOT ANY MORE!!!!!!

MAJOR LB DEPOSITS!

And just to cap off the whole day, my Dad came to visit tonight and Dad had heard about what had happened, so I went big with it and played it to the nth degree so that I could show H some admiration. Dad was a bit uncomfortable because he also doesn't like to stir emotions�and my own H stood up and said to my Dad that it was WRONG what they tried to do to me, and that he will spend the rest of his life protecting me.

OH MY GOSH. THANK YOU to all of you who ever posted on my or H's (brief) thread. H is pulling the load consistently with NO reward from me, since I just haven't felt it before now. I don't know if I will always feel this great from here on out, but MAN HAS IT BEEN A LONG ROAD so far, and so I wanted to post this right away before I forget any of the details.

Beautiful!

Nice!!!!

Please extend my warmest good job to your H, because my dear friend you deserve to be treated as a Queen!!!

Thanks all!

H made it even better last night after I was finished posting here. He looked at me and said "maybe now the word will get around that we are setting up boundaries".

Well �. YEP!

I am so very grateful for the hope that I am feeling today.

It is wonderful when MB is understood and applied. It makes marriage into a beautiful thing.

I'm still sadly withdrawing myself from the warm cushy feelings�BUT�they are getting through lately in spite of my best efforts.

I'll have that warm spark and then logically stop myself. And then later I'll notice that the emotional part of me is still feeling good. So we are HOPING that it won't be long now before I really feel that I am back in love.

H was feeling totally useless working with me. So two months ago we POJA'd him getting another job. With all sorts of parameters that we'd be okay with�kind of tough to say to an employer I can't do this, I can't go here, I have to take time off whenever my wife and I need to do something (my doc appointments), etc. etc.

But we threw it out there and we prayed multiple times per day�and H found out today (the 4th!) that he got a job within our parameters! He starts on Monday. Thank you God!

The REALLY great thing that I want to share is that two weeks ago, H was simply mentally devastated at seeing the overall destruction, that round and round mental torture when you SEE what you have caused...and he said to me, "maybe God just thinks that we aren't ready for me to have another job yet". AWE, yeah I agreed, that must be it�but H was totally humble and willing to accept God's will.

Then this past week when we met with Pastor, *I* brought up how this is really causing him depression and hurting our recovery�and pastor pointed out Matthew 6:28-34, which ironically we had JUST gone over ourselves, but anyway, we started praying together and asking specifically for the perfect job.

Not sure if this will be the perfect job, but we trust God, and we are open to it. So he starts on Monday.

When he got the call, I was standing right next to him and signaling him yes, take it. He got off the phone and said to me that he hopes that we are strong enough and ready for this. AHHHHHH, wonderful!

4th of July USED to be our own personal entertainment holiday. Everyone, family and friends, came here. Not any more. We are enjoying a delightful quiet holiday today, just the two of us, so that I don't trigger�and you know what? It is the BEST EVER!