Uggh. Exactly my point actually. My questioning was rhetorical and was not asking for clarifications. There were 3 posts before mine getting into doctor-patient relationship issues, before suggesting there is likely not an issue at all. To me, this guy is dubiously distracting his wife from the real issue at hand as we too are being distracted here.

It's:"I'm not a doctor, I just play one on TV."

Never cease to be amazed how impressionable people are when someone says they are interested in being a kind of doctor and within an instant the impressionable start telling all their woos to the doctor-to-be or therapist to be regardless the sincerity or real interest.

Husband needs to stop playing therapist/friend to this woman as an excuse or means to blatantly move into an affair under wife's nose. At the very least its terribly risky behavior at wife's expense.

Thank you all for the advise. Let me clarify a few points; we lived together for a year before getting married or having children, half the year with his mom and sister, then other with my parents. We took the time to truly get to know each other. My husband is an introvert and suffers from anxiety with large groups of people. We have acquaintances but not close friends, his friends only want to talk about drinking clubbing and women or are busy with their own families, hence why he feels like he has no friends. He is not a therapist, he will be attending school for psychology to eventually become one. He likes helping people and many friends and strangers have opened up to him in hopes of advice. I just feel like I am in a lose lose situation. On one hand, he will be devastated to lose his only friend other than me, who he feels she is like his sister. On the other hand, I just don't feel comfortable with their friendship. I just can't have that on my conscious to know I made my husband lose his only good friend, and even though he says he won't resent me for it I feel like he still will. He also feels like he will lose, he either loses a good friend or makes his wife unhappy. He deserves my trust and I feel like giving him control over this friendship if his intentions truly are innocent, for me to know that I can indeed trust him. They only thing we both agreed on per the policy of joint agreement is for him to have a talk with her to set up some boundaries and ask her if she feels like he has crossed a line at any moment with her. From her reaction we will make our decision. Wish me luck!

Hi mmt, the POJA does not apply to destructive habits so it would not apply here. No married person should have friendships of the opposite sex if they care about their marriage. You should not trust him if he engages in such risky, marriage wrecking behavior. That is like saying you "trust him" to go drunk driving, which would be silly.

I am not surprised to hear you lived together before marriage given his thoughtless, independent behavior. But you can overcome the damage caused by living together if you follow this program.

But first things first, he needs to end his opposite sex friendship NOW.

If your husband values his "friendship" over his marriage, then it has probably already crossed the line into an affair. If he won't gladly give it up to accommodate his marriage then that should tell you he is addicted to this woman, which is a sign of an affair.

Can you imagine him holding so tightly to a friendship with a guy named Joe from work?

Unfortunately this woman is not his sister and him mentioning her looks mean he doesn't really feel that way about her at all. I understand that ending his relationship with this woman will be hard but he has to if you guys what a marriage. He has to cut all ties with her, which may mean getting another job because him seeing her everyday is going to make it hard for him to stop his romantic relationship with her. He may agree to end it an just go deep under cover with it. And even if he doesn't go deep undercover every time he sees her it will increase his love bank for her.

You need to understand the likely hood of anyone having a happy marriage is 20% and for those who choose to live together first you have to cut that number in half. So you work is cut out and if you want to be in a happy marriage for the rest of your life you can't allow behaviors like this to happen. You can be part of the 10%, but you have to be willing to make the uncomfortable choices.

Now if you are on sure this is a romantic relationship let me define a romantic relationship. A romantic relationship is when someone is meeting your intimate emotional needs. Intimate emotional needs fall into 4 areas Sexual Fulfillment, Recreational Companion, Affection, and intimate conversation. Your husband has already admitted to you the he is participating in 3 out of the 4 on a regular bases. Plus she is meeting his need for admiration and physical attractiveness. He need to spend time meeting your needs and having you meet his needs instead. That is what you guys agreed to do for each other when you guys got married.

The contrast of your relationship with him and his relationship with her is going to make it impossible to make him happy because you will not be able to compete (which you may be experiencing already). I'm sorry I wish there is an other way but there really isn't.

I felt the same way about my husband's close friendship. They had known each other since they were kids, (I'd known her all my life too) they'd had the opportunity to date as teens but hadn't (she wasn't super attractive, more cuddly and my H thought she was 'one of the boys').

They really, honestly, truly thought of each other as brother and sister. I was there. Throughout their formative years there was no attraction whatsoever.

So when her H died (H's best friend - he was only 30) I thought it was OK for them to spend a lot of time alone together. I would have felt like a dreadful human being if I had stopped them comforting each other. She was my best friend and he had lost his.

They got into an affair. I still didn't know what was happening except she started meddling in my marriage and he began to act like he hated me.

The way to start having an affair is to spend a lot of time with someone talking about your deepest problems. Even two people with no attraction at all will fall in love that way. In therapy it is called transference. Yes, your H should know a lot better. It bothers you, it should bother him more.


It's already too late for you to stop it getting inappropriate. They have a relationship which is far too intimate for members of the opposite sex to have.

I would be surprised if he hasn't thought about her intimately. They've been effectively dating and he finds her attractive. I'm sure he thinks he can control it, but he can't.

You're lucky he is still at the stage where he is agreeable to stopping it. That probably means it hasn't gone further yet.

I'm curious as to why you can't be his best friend. Married people need to spend 15 hours a week giving each other undivided attention. 15 hours family time on top of that. That doesn't leave a whole lot of time for other people. BFF's are for people in high school.

Think of a couple who are happily married and I bet they don't spend their free time hanging out with a BFF like a kid.

Living together before marriage often creates what Dr. Harley calls the Renters Agreement. Bad habits are formed during the cohabitation period, such as making sacrifices, which is what you are doing by allowing this friendship against your better judgment.


In a great marriage, the spouses find they are each others best friends and have very little time outside of the marriage to spend with others. This kind of marriage is actually extremely fulfilling. My H and I have some friends, but we enjoy our time alone together more than anything else.

Also, Dr. Harley recommends spouses spend a minimum of 15 hours every week together alone meeting each others intimate ENs. Between working, sleeping, eating and the other ordinary tasks of life, there usually isn't a whole of time outside of those 15 hours to spend with others.


All of the helping AND whom he is helping should be only with your enthusiastic agreement.


But he doesn't feel like she's his sister. He also finds her very attractive. She talks with him about her sexual life and desires. These are indications that this relationship has crossed the line from a simple friendship. The only reason he would feel devastated to lose a friend is if that friend has become far too close.

It wouldn't be a lose/lose situation if he drops this "friend." He would be ending a relationship that is potentially dangerous to your marriage. You should be his ONLY best friend. Sure, married people can have friends outside the marriage, but OS friendships are a threat to marriage, and we must guard against speaking about personal matters to OS friends.


Spouses should enjoy spending time with each other MORE than anyone else. We should each be the others favorite recreational partner.

Since you are not comfortable with the friendship, that is enough to end the friendship. Period. He is gaining at your expense. He is keeping the friend while you are unhappy about it. He will only feel badly about it until you become his best friend.


But the most important person in his life ought to be you. Keeping his friend makes you unhappy. You are not enthusiastic about the friendship; therefore, the friendship should end.


No one should be trusted blindly. No one! That's how affairs start. Everyone can be trusted under certain conditions and no one can be trusted under other conditions. There are conditions under which anyone would have an affair. That's why it's so important to live an integrated and transparent life together when we're married. Blind trust is exactly what helps lead to affairs.


This is such a bad idea, I'm sorry you agreed to it. He is far too close to this attractive woman. She likes him and enjoys his company. Can you imagine that she is going to tell him he has crossed any lines? His decision about this friendship should be based on your unhappiness with it. You are not happy with the friendship and that ought to be enough to end it.

I would also add that "trust" is earned by demonstrating trustworthy behavior. It is not earned by engaging in marriage wrecking behavior that is harmful to your spouse. If your spouse is playing chicken, the solution is to get out of the road, not to "test" your wonderful chicken skills.

And keep in mind, that you are the person that will get hit by the car, not him. He is risking YOUR LIFE, not his. You will suffer the greatest pain of your life when you find out this is an affair. And it very probably has already crossed that line.

Your husband is playing chicken with YOUR LIFE. You are about to hit by a Mack truck.

Abdicate the fate of your marriage to a woman who is given access to what is to be exclusive between yourself and your husband?

After supposedly dealing with a couple soured relationships now at no risk to her she is offered the best of what is between you and your husband I can guess what she might say!

"No, don't worry we are just friend" (friend with benefits)

And your husband will continue to cause you to be his accomplice in this inappropriate relationship. "Honey, if you want me to stop being her BFF I understand. I'll be sad though because you know I haven't had a friend like this in along time. It's up to you"

This is called gaslighting here.

Gaslighting will cause you to not trust your intuition that is speaking your truth to you right now very loud and clear. We here are reinforcing for you your own sense of truth.

Your husband is asking you to not trust your instincts and override with distorted rationale. Why is he doing this and not giving your internal wisdom more respect? Why are you going along with his and this woman's stories? You ARE being played and you know it. Detach yourself and come to your own senses.

It sounds like you are determined to continue to believe your husband and even make up excuses FOR HIM to continue to invest his time in this third person... he has no friends...he will resent me... he wants to be a therapist.


Oh mmo2 this is like watching my own personal train wreck happen all over again. I almost lost my family this way. The only difference being that OW was not a friend of a co-worker but my own friend, neighbor and mother of my daughter's BF.


Feelings follow actions and your husband's actions are more caring and protective of OW than you.


You are being gaslighted by the both of them. It is crystal clear to all of us who have been there before you.

For heaven's sake, your husband is replacing you and you are clinging to the hope that simple "boundaries" will fix this. You do understand, this woman is replacing you? I would not be surprised if this was already a physical affair.

But he's using this as an excuse to lead a lifestyle that leads to affairs. There are countless people that can be helped. I love to help people, but I limit myself to only helping in cases where both my wife and I are enthusiastic about giving help, and only in ways that she is enthusiastic about.

Marriage means promising to give each other EXTRAORDINARY CARE for life - helping people when your spouse is reluctant means you are helping people at the expense of your spouse, which is the exact opposite of what marriage is supposed to be.

Dr. Harley's position, based on his decades of marriage counseling, is that if there is anything a person reserves the right to do even though their spouse is reluctant, it will eventually destroy the marriage. I'm listening to yesterday's Marriage Builders Radio show right now and just heard him describe how early in their marriage both he and his wife gave up career ideas that the other felt reluctant about. There are countless opportunities that can be selected instead.


This is frightening to hear. Why would he discuss boundaries with HER instead of YOU? Once they get into this kind of intimate talk, they are off to the races.


He should be asking YOU if he's ever done anything that makes you uneasy and then KNOCK IT OFF.

You are agreeing to let him live a lifestyle that will destroy your marriage.

Trust is not a decision you make. It is a feeling created by certain conditions. He is acting in a completely untrustworthy manner, and so the conditions don't exist to create trust. If he wants you to trust him, the feeling is easy for him to create in you: he needs to replace his affair partner with YOU.

Did you read these three CRUCIAL articles?

I couldn't agree more. Who gives a hoot what the chippy at the office thinks or feels about the boundaries in place? He is simply none of her business. She is not part of the marriage. This isn't a three-way vote.

He is treating her as equal to his wife with an equal say in his behaviour!

I help and advise my co-workers too, (one of the reasons I post here is because I simply adore doing that). But I don't have intimate one-on-one discussions with men about my love life - and I'm single! It would just be so, so, very unprofessional to go there.

I will talk recipes, I will talk about the boss, I will talk about weekend plans. I absolutely would NOT go on breaks with the same guy habitually without raising a WHOLE lot of eyebrows. If I were married, my topic limits and boundaries would be stricter still and would adhere only to things that did not threaten my H.

He will get fired if this carries on. Asking a co-worker about the intimate details of their love life can be construed as sexual harassment.

If your husband truly has plans to go into the helping professions such as therapist, minister etc, today is the day he needs to set relational boundaries or extraordinary precautions around his marriage to you.

Check out this website forum. There are numerous counselor consoler marriages and hard earned careers busted up in just this way. If you and your husband can't place extraordinary precautions on your marriage at this point and your husbands proceeds to become a helping professional, he IS dangerous to you and WILL be to those he minsters to.

I'm looking again at your thread title:


I am assuming when you first posted you were looking for some rules that marriages should have about opposite-sex friendships. Now you have slid down the slope and are talking about your husband and his girlfriend coming up with the rules in a talk by themselves, without you. Ouch!

This is the rule Dr. Harley suggests for marriage:
The Policy of Joint Agreement


This means don't even talk to someone if your spouse is not enthusiastic.

By "enthusiastic agreement," Dr. Harley specifically means that if you or your husband feel reluctant about something, the solution is to not do it and find an alternative, rather than to try to make yourself feel different (which is nearly impossible).

Dr. Harley's experience in 40+ years of marriage counseling and 50+ years of marriage is that marriages don't work out when the couple doesn't follow this rule. If you want to ignore the nagging voice of doubt and reluctance in your head, you might as well begin preparing for a separation and for divorce now.

Thank you all for your helpful advice. As it turns out she fell in love with my husband, he immediately told her they can no longer be friends. He feels very awkward working with her even if she only works 3 days a week. They have stopped all communication between them and he texts and calls me all throughout his work day. He's so full of guilt he thought he was going to lose me because of this. To him it was only a friendship and nothing more, but he's having trouble understanding how she fell in love (I have an idea) when he never gave her any signs. We are both actively looking for a new job for him, he doesn't want to work with her anymore. Unfortunately, she now keeps sending me messages and calling me to hang out, play dates etc. I can see right through her, she wants to use me to get closer to my husband, but it won't happen. This whole situation was horrible but I'm happy to say that we are closer than before and will never give up or let anyone come between us again. Now if I can only get her fired so my husband can keep a good job any ideas?

Mm2, I'd love to accept this story as willingly as you have but I don't buy it. As soon as you started to make noises about your concern you hear this? It's a red herring to make you feel you're being levelled with. It's an affair. Two sided.

If he's being honest, then no action is necessary. You don't need to get her fired because there was no affair. If my H told a pushy woman at work he wasn't interested, I'd expect him to tell me and them avoid her. Why does he need to get another job if there was no affair?

Because it's convincing, that's why. You've also mentioned the risk of a sexual harassment suit to him too haven't you? That's why they've decided their affair is probably best conducted with him at a different workplace.

Do nothing and be watchful for now. You do actually want him at a different job so smile and encourage it. Appear to accept everything and snoop.